Patterson Metropolis internally geared 2-sp crankset/chainset

[Danneaux]

Hi All!

[A bit hard to classify which board this fits under, so I chose the Rohloff Internal Hub Gears board as closest match, given the similarities]

I recently found a couple of NOS 2-sp internally geared cranksets/chainsets advertised on Craigslist locally for only USD $100, 1/3 the new MSRP. I notified my Bavarian friend Rainer and served as his purchasing agent this afternoon.

I am familiar with the German Hammerschmidt ( https://www.sram.com/truvativ/products/truvativ-hammerschmidt-am-crankset#sm.0000vgevudt9zej0v4z1it3dam4eu ) and Swiss (now German made) Florian Schlumpf internally geared cranksets ( http://www.schlumpf.ch/hp/schlumpf/faq.getriebe.engl.htm ), but this one is a bit different n how it mounts wrt torque reaction transmission. Designed by original SRAM co-founder and GripShift developer Sam Patterson, it is made by FSA, marketed independently of either company, and sold direct as the Patterson Metropolis. The example I just bought has 175mm arms, appropriate to Rainer's 2m height.

This example came with factory sealed parts, a decal, external BB and no instructions, shifter, cable or housing. It seems a standard indexed or friction front derailleur shifter will actuate it.

It comes fitted with a 28t physical chainring (swappable to different sizes). It has an overdrive ratio of 1.6:1 that increases gear range by 60% compared with a single chain ring, so it is equivalent to a 1:1 28t physical plus a 45t virtual chain ring set. The 2-speed fully sealed planetary gearing is shiftable under load without letup.It uses a 46mm chainline (potentially problematic), fits a 68mm BB (included and ditto if you have a frame with 73mm BB shell), and weighs in at 1734g complete including BB. I'm not sure of Rainer's plans, but I believe he will pair it with a 9-sp cassette and rear derailleur. He hates shifting a front deraileur and prefers internal gearing (he owns a number of Shimano Alfine and Nexus hubs as well as several Rohloffs). Since this is an overdrive, it can be matched with an IGH like a Rohloff if he wishes (so long as the physical chainring/cog ratios fall within Rohloff's recommended range and he can resolve the chainline mismatch). The unit is shielded from the weather but is not shielded properly for use in immersive mud off-road.

Links:
https://www.pattersonbike.com/
http://bicycletimesmag.com/review-fsa-metropolis-patterson-transmission/
https://www.bikerumor.com/2010/04/26/fsa-unveils-metropolis-patterson-drive-internal-geared-crankset-for-commuters/
=====

Of course, this crank came with a backstory:
When I got to the seller's workshop, the door opened and I found myself looking into the face of a friend of some 25+ years, assistant manager at a LBS here in Eugene. Real nice fellow. Turns out he is a friend of the seller, who runs a small shop making and selling cargo bikes. These cranksets had been intended for use on a couple of the cargo bikes, but the design changed and they became surplus to requirements and have been sitting unopened, unused, and uninstalled since.

The seller is a very pleasant fellow, like our mutual friend. It turns out he and his wife had visited Sofia Bulgaria when his father served as a makeup artist for _The Expendables 2_, which filmed there. He is getting his first Rohloff soon and will be contacting me for installation and setup tips. He struck me as a very honest fellow and I liked him immediately.

So...what are the odds? This stranger and I have a mutual friend of more than 25 years, he makes bikes, and has been the same places I have in Eastern Europe. No accidents in the world of cycling. 

All the best,

Dan.

[macspud]

Hi All!

[A bit hard to classify which board this fits under, so I chose the Rohloff Internal Hub Gears board as closest match, given the similarities]

I recently found a couple of NOS 2-sp internally geared cranksets/chainsets advertised on Craigslist locally for only USD $100, 1/3 the new MSRP. I notified my Bavarian friend Rainer and served as his purchasing agent this afternoon.

I am familiar with the German Hammerschmidt ( https://www.sram.com/truvativ/products/truvativ-hammerschmidt-am-crankset#sm.0000vgevudt9zej0v4z1it3dam4eu ) and Swiss (now German made) Florian Schlumpf internally geared cranksets ( http://www.schlumpf.ch/hp/schlumpf/faq.getriebe.engl.htm ), but this one is a bit different n how it mounts wrt torque reaction transmission. Designed by original SRAM co-founder and GripShift developer Sam Patterson, it is made by FSA, marketed independently of either company, and sold direct as the Patterson Metropolis. The example I just bought has 175mm arms, appropriate to Rainer's 2m height.

This example came with factory sealed parts, a decal, external BB and no instructions, shifter, cable or housing. It seems a standard indexed or friction front derailleur shifter will actuate it.

It comes fitted with a 28t physical chainring (swappable to different sizes). It has an overdrive ratio of 1.6:1 that increases gear range by 60% compared with a single chain ring, so it is equivalent to a 1:1 28t physical plus a 45t virtual chain ring set. The 2-speed fully sealed planetary gearing is shiftable under load without letup.It uses a 46mm chainline (potentially problematic), fits a 68mm BB (included and ditto if you have a frame with 73mm BB shell), and weighs in at 1734g complete including BB. I'm not sure of Rainer's plans, but I believe he will pair it with a 9-sp cassette and rear derailleur. He hates shifting a front deraileur and prefers internal gearing (he owns a number of Shimano Alfine and Nexus hubs as well as several Rohloffs). Since this is an overdrive, it can be matched with an IGH like a Rohloff if he wishes (so long as the physical chainring/cog ratios fall within Rohloff's recommended range and he can resolve the chainline mismatch). The unit is shielded from the weather but is not shielded properly for use in immersive mud off-road.

Links:
https://www.pattersonbike.com/
http://bicycletimesmag.com/review-fsa-metropolis-patterson-transmission/
https://www.bikerumor.com/2010/04/26/fsa-unveils-metropolis-patterson-drive-internal-geared-crankset-for-commuters/
=====

Of course, this crank came with a backstory:
When I got to the seller's workshop, the door opened and I found myself looking into the face of a friend of some 25+ years, assistant manager at a LBS here in Eugene. Real nice fellow. Turns out he is a friend of the seller, who runs a small shop making and selling cargo bikes. These cranksets had been intended for use on a couple of the cargo bikes, but the design changed and they became surplus to requirements and have been sitting unopened, unused, and uninstalled since.

The seller is a very pleasant fellow, like our mutual friend. It turns out he and his wife had visited Sofia Bulgaria when his father served as a makeup artist for _The Expendables 2_, which filmed there. He is getting his first Rohloff soon and will be contacting me for installation and setup tips. He struck me as a very honest fellow and I liked him immediately.

So...what are the odds? This stranger and I have a mutual friend of more than 25 years, he makes bikes, and has been the same places I have in Eastern Europe. No accidents in the world of cycling. 

All the best,

Dan.

Dan, I Love that...............................................................................................
But, just one thing....       an Eternal Truth..........................................................
There are NO accidents.....................................................................................
Best to always heed the signals, there are always consequences........................
Mostly, the consequences are kept hidden, to all but........the insane..................
the Abandoned...........     the Forgotten.......    the Tortured.....        the abused....
the broken.......     the handicapped......           the confused.........     the mad......
the idiots......    the saints.........        the Children.........      the Enlightened...........
the Awakened............      and finally, the eaters of darkness................................
Please, Don't Ever Forget Them.......    theirs is a truly terrible existence.............
Which they do for the nothing, but the Love of Light....   Life and all Creations...
...
That is the Great Deception...............................................................................
Sorry, but that is of paramount importance. Heavy, though it may seem............
The Truth must be heard, to be realised..............................................................

All the Best,

Iain.

;-}

[macspud]

Why does the preview view of writers post, not give an accurate representation, of how the post will actually appear when posted?  Frustrating to perfect mind.

[mickeg]

I can see that Patterson unit being quite useful for fold up bikes.  My foldup can't be fitted with a front derailleur and I wanted a wider range, my only option was the Sram Dual Drive.  That is an internally geared three speed hub that can take a Shimano or Sram, 8 or 9 speed cassette, 135mm dropout spacing.  (I am ignorant of 10 speed cassettes, they might fit too?)  A few months ago I read somewhere that the Dual Drive would be taken out of production as of last month, so if you want one there probably are a limited number still at a few retailers.  Photo attached, but unfortunately in my photo most of the hub is hidden by being behind the cassette and spoke protector.

Foldups often have a problem with insufficient high gearing due to the smaller wheels.  Mine uses 24 inch wheels and that is not a problem for me, but most people with foldups are using 20 or 16 inch wheels, and the only way to get high enough gears on that is with a really big chainring.  My Dual Drive has one gear that is overdrive, the middle gear is direct drive, so that works great for small wheel foldups because of the overdrive.  I noted that the Patterson two speed crank also provides an overdrive, so that would be useful for small wheel bikes too.  That said, I have no idea if you can get a big enough chainring on the Patterson for it to provide that benefit to a small wheel bike.

[Danneaux]

I have no idea if you can get a big enough chainring on the Patterson for it to provide that benefit to a small wheel bike.

George,

In addition to the default 28t chainring, Patterson offers two alternative sizes: 32t and 36t.

Using their 1.6:1 overdrive ratio, this offers virtual overdrive chainrings of 51t and 58t. Either might well be workable with small-wheel Folders. It appears one must use a Patterson chainring with a Patterson crank, as the usual sleeve nuts and bolts are absent.

See: https://www.pattersonbike.com/product/chain-ring-patterson-transmission/

My own full-suspension Folder (nearly finished! I just need to braze on the front mech mount and three cable stops, then finish the joints on the steering mast...) has 135mm OLN dropout spacing so I can use MTB hubs and cassettes. It uses 406mm ERD (the "smaller" 20 inch wheels with decimal tire width). I'm running a triple crank with 46/36/26 rings and a cassette with an 11t high cog, giving a high gear of 84 gear-inches, as much as my knees can manage. Coupled with my hummingbird cadence, I can get some pretty good speed out of it, equal to my other bikes.

Have you seen the small wheel/Folder-specific Shimano Capreo drivetrain? Only the cassette and rear hub are really unique to the line. The four smallest cogs are 9, 10, 11 and 13t. I decided to pass on it because the 9 and 10t cogs run the chain links at torturous angles and there's not much surface area so wear rates are bound to be high compared to more conventional offerings. See: https://www.sheldonbrown.com/capreo.html

I have a SRAM 3x7 hub and a single chainring on my unserialed "Famous Maker" prototype restoration project. The hub is okay, but the plastic shifters long ago succumbed to the weather while sitting outdoors for more than a decade on the estate of a friend's father. It appears they can be replaced with functional equivalents pretty inexpensively. The seized steerer mast is presenting a much bigger problem. The maker says it may have a J-shaped keyway but doesn't know or remember as no records were kept for development models. Their solution would be to simply hack it off or replace the entire front frame and fork, but I'd like to keep it original, especially where they identified it as a factory prototype. A year soaking in solvents alternating with reasonable heat application and gentle blows with a shot-filled nylon hammer have brought no joy to date.

Best,

Dan.

[martinf]

I've had a lot of small-wheel bikes over the years - two 1960's Moultons with 16" wheels, a Raleigh 20 and a Dawes Kingpin from the 1970's, both the latter with 20" wheels, a much more recent Moulton TSR separable, again with 20" wheels, and 4 Bromptons with 16" wheels, of which I still have two, my wife also has one.

On these bikes, hub gears make a lot of sense. The old ones mainly had Sturmey Archer 3, 4 or 5 speed hub gears. My favourite in old hub gears is the Sturmey Archer S5/2 5 speed hub from the early 1980's, I still have 3 of these in service, on my two Bromptons and on my old utility bike with 650B large wheels. Ratios go from 0.67 to 1.5, which gives a reasonable gear spread on a 16" wheel with a 44T chainring and 14T sprocket, or on a 26" wheel bike with the same 44T  chainring and 22T sprocket. With only five gears, range is limited, but adequate for me for local use. One of my two Bromptons has a home-made twin rear sprocket setup, 13x19, which I use with the proprietary Brompton two-speed rear derailleur to get a 5x2 with enough overall range to enable me to use it for the occasional train-assisted tour in hilly areas.

My Moulton TSR had a SRAM DualDrive 3x8, which I quite liked. I also ran a SRAM DualDrive 3x7 on a 26" wheel bike for a while, on this I had to use a small chainring (34T) to get a a reasonable gear spread. Wear was quite rapid on a single small chainring, so I reckon the DualDrive isn't really suited for large-wheel bikes.

I've still got a SRAM DualDrive 3x8 hub in my spares box, with the clickbox that fits onto the axle, but without the 8-speed cassette and the specific SRAM shifter that controlled the hub and derailleur gears in one unit. The hub worked fine with a Sturmey-Archer or SRAM 3-speed trigger shifter.

If anyone wants to play with this hub they can have it for the postage, with choice of a Sturmey-Archer or SRAM 3-speed trigger shifter (I have both in my spares box), but you will need to find an 8-speed cassette and all the other derailleur parts. SRAM and Shimano derailleur cassettes will both fit, though perhaps not all models. I used a Shimano 13-34 cassette. 

Sturmay-Archer have a similar hybrid 3x8 or 3x9 hub in their catalogue, but I have never seen one.

   

[Danneaux]

Good on ya, Martin!

Best,

Dan. (...who will pass on this one but is delighted once again by your community spirit and generosity)

[mickeg]

...
I've still got a SRAM DualDrive 3x8 hub in my spares box, with the clickbox that fits onto the axle, but without the 8-speed cassette and the specific SRAM shifter that controlled the hub and derailleur gears in one unit. The hub worked fine with a Sturmey-Archer or SRAM 3-speed trigger shifter.

If anyone wants to play with this hub they can have it for the postage, with choice of a Sturmey-Archer or SRAM 3-speed trigger shifter (I have both in my spares box), but you will need to find an 8-speed cassette and all the other derailleur parts. SRAM and Shimano derailleur cassettes will both fit, though perhaps not all models. I used a Shimano 13-34 cassette. 
... 

I appreciate the offer but I think I will pass.  Do not have a use for it.

I am using a Sturmey Archer 3 speed bar end shifter on my foldup with my Dual Drive.  Works great.  Get the yellow lines to line up in the little click box window in 2nd gear and you are set.  The out of focus bar end in the background in the photo is the Shimano 8 speed bar end shifter.

...
I have a SRAM 3x7 hub and a single chainring on my unserialed "Famous Maker" prototype restoration project. The hub is okay, but the plastic shifters long ago succumbed to the weather while sitting outdoors for more than a decade ...
Dan.

I think Dan should go for the Dual Drive and then pick up the bar end shifter like I use.  I have no idea if the Sachs will work with that shifter, the Dual Drive is a revision of the Sachs, but with the change to the click box thingy, the cable pull might have changed.

[martinf]

I am using a Sturmey Archer 3 speed bar end shifter on my foldup with my Dual Drive.  Works great.  Get the yellow lines to line up in the little click box window in 2nd gear and you are set.  The out of focus bar end in the background in the photo is the Shimano 8 speed bar end shifter.

I've also got one of these Sturmey Archer 3 speed bar end shifters, as George says it's a good alternative to the other options for shifting a DualDrive hub when using drop bars. I'd forgotten about it.

I used it combined with a Shimano 8 speed bar end shifter on my Moulton TSR, which I sold (with an all-derailleur setup) to part-finance my first Thorn Raven Tour.

So my offer is now one SRAM DualDrive 3x8 hub with clickbox, and one of 3 different shifters. Sturmey Archer 3 speed bar end for drops, Sturmey-Archer or SRAM 3-speed trigger for flat bars (or could be mounted on a quill stem or accessory bar if using drops). Available for postage from France.

I'll try and take some photos and put a proper description in the sales and wants section.

I should really take the time to sort out all the bike-related stuff I've accumulated over about 40 years, I am unlikely to use most of it again. Maybe when I retire!

 

[Pavel]

Martin ... hang on to those.  They will be very valuable in a few hundred years and perhaps your descendants will enjoy running that bicycle museum.