Rohloffs are not invincible

[Bill]

Do we know how reliable Rohloffs are compared to conventional derailleur systems? Or is the problem that a Rohloff fails infrequently, but when they do the consequences are higher, they are more difficult and expensive  to fix, and you are reliant on Rohloff to help you fix it?
Is the problem that Rohloff have overstated the reliability of the hub, so when one does fail, it is more of a surprise?

My Rohloff has been good, but I have only about 6000 km on it.

I have a Phil Wood cassette hub on my derailleur bike, they *never* fail, but mine failed in the middle of a big tour. Shit happens.

[martinf]

Water is very destructive if it gets inside a hub gear, and I don't see why a Rohloff should be any different from a simple 3-speed in this respect.

The hubs I know most about are the old oil-lubricated Sturmey Archer 3 and 5 speeds. The labyrinth bearings on these hubs generally prevent significant water entry and in normal use, these hubs leak oil slightly through the big right-hand bearing, so any small amount of water that may get in is flushed out by periodic topping up with oil.

If you know a hub has risked significant water entry, like after fording a stream or riding through a flood, you can do something about it, for example strip and relubricate for Sturmey hubs. I don't know what the correct procedure is for a Rohloff, probably flush several times with cleaning oil, but I hope I will never have to find out.

Under some circumstances, probably unusual, I reckon water could get in without you knowing, maybe by condensation in unusual weather or perhaps prolonged riding in filthy wet conditions with a faulty seal. I suspect something like this happened to the original poster's Rohloff.

[geocycle]

Do we know how reliable Rohloffs are compared to conventional derailleur systems? Or is the problem that a Rohloff fails infrequently, but when they do the consequences are higher, they are more difficult and expensive  to fix, and you are reliant on Rohloff to help you fix it?
Is the problem that Rohloff have overstated the reliability of the hub, so when one does fail, it is more of a surprise?

My Rohloff has been good, but I have only about 6000 km on it.

I have a Phil Wood cassette hub on my derailleur bike, they *never* fail, but mine failed in the middle of a big tour. Shit happens.

Mine has done 50,000km. It's had regular services and one repair due to a mess I made when extracting the sprocket. Otherwise it has not had any issues at all. It will at some point fail, as everything mechanical does but I've no idea when that will be. When it fails I'll get another if at all possible.

[Andre Jute]

It will at some point fail, as everything mechanical does but I've no idea when that will be. When it fails I'll get another if at all possible.

Yes, that sums it up. +1.

This thread is mislabeled: "Rohloffs are not invincible". No one can disagree with that bald statement, because everything does eventually wear out. But in nearly 30 years not enough Rohloffs have broken to establish a pattern and thus a number for the expected service life.

A Shimano Nexus hub, for instance, has an MTBF rating, a mean time between failure period, which we normally take as its service life because the thing is so cheap that it makes more sense to replace it with a new one than to repair it. I can't remember whether the Shimano Nexus MTBF is 30K or 50K (or both, miles and kilometers). It doesn't matter. The facts are that it is a less capable box than a Rohloff, and generally speaking isn't expected to last as long.

It seems to me that in the OP's hands, on the most restrictive calculation in this thread, 45K might be a reasonable life expectancy for a Rohloff gearbox, which is then repaired for £235, rather than replacing a £1000 gearbox completely. That's already an advantage.

Or £235 will get you a Shimano Nexus gearbox, which I admire, even though I wore out two before 5K.

I'd rather have the Rohloff for £235 every 45K than a Shimano Nexus (even if the Shimano were to last the same 45K, which in my hands it never has).

***
Something else only fleetingly touched on by any of the posters in this thread: I understand that, because of the amount of custom-fitting in the construction of a Rohloff box, each one is slightly different, and even in Germany there is a chance of a rare rogue box, but a box with 90K on it before it costs anything for repairs doesn't fit that description, not even near. I think it is unreasonable to complain, or to expect a second 90K without any cost from a thousand pound bike gearbox. If you get it, it is a bonus, cause for dancing in the streets, but if you don't you can't complain you were oversold: the Rohloff has a clearly stated two year guarantee.

Cars these days are designed to last 100K, they cost a great deal more than a thousand pounds, and nobody says, "Oh, Mercedes isn't invincible."

[martinf]

A Shimano Nexus hub, for instance, has an MTBF rating, a mean time between failure period, which we normally take as its service life because the thing is so cheap that it makes more sense to replace it with a new one than to repair it. I can't remember whether the Shimano Nexus MTBF is 30K or 50K (or both, miles and kilometers). It doesn't matter. The facts are that it is a less capable box than a Rohloff, and generally speaking isn't expected to last as long.

Or £235 will get you a Shimano Nexus gearbox, which I admire, even though I wore out two before 5K.

My Shimano Nexus Premium 8 hubs cost substantially less than £235, as I had to buy them online (not available locally here in France). I got mine from Germany.

I currently have 3 Nexus hubs in service, an 8-speed on my Thorn Raven Tour utility bike, an 8-speed on my wife's bike and a 7-speed on one of the visitor bikes.

AFAIK, the Shimano Nexus series were, and maybe still are, vulnerable to water entering through the large right hand bearing. These hubs are grease-lubricated from the factory, so do not normally have the oil-flush feature of the old Sturmey Archer 3 and 5 speeds. There are several online accounts of Nexus 8 hubs destroyed by water entry when used in wet conditions.

I remove the internal from the shell when receiving new Nexus hubs, lubricate the external bearings with a generous amount of outboard motor grease and dunk the innards in synthetic oil. I repeat the process about once a year.

This invalidates any guarantee and is slightly more hassle than the Rohloff oil change, but has so far given good results for me. Nexus hubs seem to run more efficiently with oil rather than the factory grease.

Online reports suggest that Nexus hubs will run for a long time if protected from water entry and if the cable is kept properly adjusted (the latter is much more critical than for a Rohloff). If I get around 5,000 kms from them I will be happy.

Nexus 8 premium and Alfine 8 hubs have some of the same advantages over derailleurs as Rohloff - low maintenance, relatively clean and easy to operate by someone who doesn't want to learn how to use two gear shifters. The 3 most often quoted disadvantages of a Nexus 8 (and most other hub gears) compared to derailleurs are:

- less gear range. Not an issue for me for local use, but would be for touring mountainous areas.
- lower efficiency. I did some timed rides after converting my old mountain bike from 3x7 derailleur to Nexus 8 Premium and noticed hardly any difference. Factor in the time gained by doing less transmission maintenance and Nexus 8 premium is faster. The older Nexus 7 hub I have is noticeably less efficient, so is currently on a visitor bike only used for fairly short rides.
- weighs more. The difference is about the same as a Rohloff compared to a derailleur transmission, a few hundred grams. Not an issue for me.

As André states, they are cheap enough to replace when they fail. I recently bought two more Nexus 8 premium hubs, one is due to go on a projected "new" bike that will replace the oldest of my two visitor bikes (a 3-speed that dates from the 1970's) and the other will probably replace the Nexus 7 on the newest existing visitor bike.

 

[Peter_K]

This thread is mislabeled: "Rohloffs are not invincible". No one can disagree with that bald statement, because everything does eventually wear out. But in nearly 30 years not enough Rohloffs have broken to establish a pattern and thus a number for the expected service life.

The Rohloff hub is sold as being very reliable, leaving the impression at some (non-technical?) people they cannot fail. Then the disappointment if they do fail is bigger.

The impossibility for any repairs on them makes it worse.

To save a holiday there is the possibility to send a spare internal. Rohloff has some internals, and some bike shops in the Netherlands have them, perhaps SJS have some too. But these internals are limited and not sent at the first demand: the sender wants to be sure it is really required. So, as cyclist you have to convince  the sender, with all communication involved, which on some locations is very difficult.

This is a disadvantage that is not well advertised. And Rohloff hubs do fail, and those failures are not very well advertised either. Probably only Rohloff knows how many hubs fail, and they changed their service only recently. Hence I got the service for my old secondhand Rohloff hub for free (old style), while onebikeoneworld had to pay (new style).


Edit: corrected deception -> disappointment

[jags]

rohloff great for around town cycling.useless crap.

[bobs]

Anto, Have you ever tried a bike fitted with a Rohloff. It's a pity  Mark Beaumont  didn't know that when he cycled around the  world, he might have done it faster.


Bob

[jags]

bob i'm a big  fan of mark  true gentleman for sure but he was sponsored on that  ride  all his road bike are  dura ace or campag.
i can't for the life of see what advantage rohoff hubs have over  deraileur gears .sorry about spelling 
yeah you can keep your rohloff  good for postmen and  butcher delivery boys  not for this kid.

[Bill C]

bit harsh Anto
you can change gear at a stand still, and you get to hang out with all the Kool Kids in the hoff club
but as iggy pop said its a heavy price for a heavy pose

op what now carry on with the repaired wheel and hope it's now reliable, buy a new wheel (wince), or ditch the frame on ebay n start afresh? another hoff or once burnt is enough?
what do you do with a dead grand's worth of wheel? you couldn't in all good concience sell it, or could you?

not trying to be a jerk, but i can't see why people pay so much for something that is ultimately just an expensive gear changer with a limeted gear range that if plays up your screwed

[jags]

iggy knows his stuff Bill and knows his bikes .i watch a lot of cycle touring films on utube well that's what us armchair tourers do 
you see a lot of guys using warmshowers and excepting the generous  gifts like food money  water or whatever from complete strangers especially in poorer country's ,
but little do these people know the  poor guys on the bikes most of them ride bike worth more than the houses these people live in .
rohloff hubs  top of the range frames and  gear  hilleberg tents that cost the feckin earth to buy ,where will it all end i ask meself 
snobbery at its best rohloff and hilly there well matched.

anto on a rant sorry.

[Andre Jute]

but as iggy pop said its a heavy price for a heavy pose

Yeah, man, but is a heavy pose.

[Bill C]

hi Anto
i 'm just having a pop back for all the smug comments about derallieurs, or defailers  or other childish names they get called
i'm only here cos i love my |Vanila Thorns (did i mention i just picked up a time warp 2003 Klien?    it was a 2004 Klien that brought me here in the first place so back to my roots )

[Andre Jute]

This thread is mislabeled: "Rohloffs are not invincible". No one can disagree with that bald statement, because everything does eventually wear out. But in nearly 30 years not enough Rohloffs have broken to establish a pattern and thus a number for the expected service life.

The Rohloff hub is sold as being very reliable, leaving the impression at some (non-technical?) people they cannot fail. Then the deception if they do fail is bigger.

I think you mean "Then the disappointment if they do fail is bigger," because there really is no "deception" here. All these stories of fabulous service, including yours, preclude any deception because implicit in them is the certain knowledge that hub must first have broken before the fabulous service could come into play.

In fact the stories of emergency service, fabulously free or not, are themselves the OP's defense of the truth of his thread title "Rohloffs are not invincible".

[jags]

sure if u can't have a laugh you might as well  start playing golf ,
oh no  im not having a go at golfers ,well im am but sure what about it  .

bill it's all fun 

anto