Which Raven Model? (& Max Load Chart)

[stutho]

I think the problem in specifying the max weight is what Kind of surface are we talking about.  I have used my RST with far more than the Max specified by thorn.  (It did make the handling lively but didn't damage the bike) It would be great if Thorn would publish a list of max weights - split into 3 columns -  Comfortable Load, Max load, Off Road Load

Stutho 

[il padrone]

I had access to a digital balance recently and weighed my raven tour at 15.8kg.  That's with schmidt dynamo hub and lights, additional battery light, rohloff of course, brooks saddle, tubus rack, carbide rims, schwalbe marathon tyres, single sided SPD pedals. All chosen to be robust and bombproof for my kind of touring and commuting.

Using the bathroom scales I weighed my new Raven Nomad (set up with similar components, plus front and rear Tubus racks, but no batteries and Time Alium pedals). I was very pleasantly surprised to see it weighed the same as my old Giant Sedona MTB tourer - 16kg. Riding it for the past two months it is very apparent that the ride is very much the same, perhaps even slightly quicker.

[sg37409]

Sport Tour in this guise, 15.3 kg   includes bag, repair kit & pump, pedals
http://www.flickr.com/photos/24775321@N02/5542442281/in/set-72157625053003211

[NZPeterG]

Which Nomad to get?
A STD Nomad MK2 or a Nomad MK2 X?
I'm planning to go back to Africa and finish (starting from Cario again) to Cape Town with Tour d'Afrique 12,000km's with only 2+kg's of gear on the bike each day, with a STD day being 130+km's on 80% tar roads and 20% on very bad, Rocky, dirt road's.
So i'm thinking that a X would be the best! BUT i'm looking to tour with a full load about 30kg's?
this would make a STD Nomad the best but having to climb 2000+ metre's a day in Africa some days make's the X the best?
      
Pete..

[brummie]

Nomad X + trailer?

[Kuba]

Which Nomad to get?
A STD Nomad MK2 or a Nomad MK2 X?

What size? With the introduction of the X series Thorn started adjusting the load carrying capacities depending on the frame/rider size, and this makes a lot of sense. In my experience, the frame strength varies hugely depending on these few extra cm/mm of tube length...

I used to ride the xTc. A fantastic bike but, being XL size, it shook like a jelly with 15kg plus, even on smooth tarmac. Had to replace it with the Raven for a Himalaya trip, which was a good choice (for Himalaya that is, otherwise I really miss my xTc's nippiness). But my partner, who is much smaller and rides M size frame kept the xTc, and just took mudguards off and put 2.0 XRs on. We rode some seriously rough roads in Ladakh, up and down hill, and she had no complaints whatsoever, and the bike handled the load no problem. I carried most of the kit/food/water, but she still probably had around 15 kg on hers, which I guess would be near the xTc limit for smooth surfaces.

So, if you are looking at going lightweight and only carrying 30 kg very occasionally, and if you are looking at smaller/medium frames, I guess you could be fine on the X. If you are a big guy though, this is unlikely to work.

Trailer is a good idea, and frame bags can improve the bike's handling when it would be otherwise overloaded.

Some people will say that you should future-proof your bike and go for the strongest possible frame. Well, I beg to differ - don't get a frame any stronger than you need. Lightweight frames are more fun 

[NZPeterG]

Nomad X + trailer?

Sorry it's a BIG No to a Trailer!
Thanks Pete..

[NZPeterG]

What size? With the introduction of the X series Thorn started adjusting the load carrying capacities depending on the frame/rider size, and this makes a lot of sense. In my experience, the frame strength varies hugely depending on these few extra cm/mm of tube length...

I used to ride the xTc. A fantastic bike but, being XL size, it shook like a jelly with 15kg plus, even on smooth tarmac. Had to replace it with the Raven for a Himalaya trip, which was a good choice (for Himalaya that is, otherwise I really miss my xTc's nippiness). But my partner, who is much smaller and rides M size frame kept the xTc, and just took mudguards off and put 2.0 XRs on. We rode some seriously rough roads in Ladakh, up and down hill, and she had no complaints whatsoever, and the bike handled the load no problem. I carried most of the kit/food/water, but she still probably had around 15 kg on hers, which I guess would be near the xTc limit for smooth surfaces.

So, if you are looking at going lightweight and only carrying 30 kg very occasionally, and if you are looking at smaller/medium frames, I guess you could be fine on the X. If you are a big guy though, this is unlikely to work.

Trailer is a good idea, and frame bags can improve the bike's handling when it would be otherwise overloaded.

Some people will say that you should future-proof your bike and go for the strongest possible frame. Well, I beg to differ - don't get a frame any stronger than you need. Lightweight frames are more fun 

Thanks I have e-mail the Team at SJS Cycles about which one.
I'm 1'78 metre's tall and ride about a Med size it's just do I go with Drop Handlebars or Jeff Jones Loop bar's?
It make's a diff about which size bike?
Pete...

[Kuba]

It make's a diff about which size bike?

Yes it does. A quote from Andy Blance's email sometime ago: "a small frame is always stronger than a large frame, when it is made from the same gauge and size material". If you study the Nomad brochure you will see this clearly, the larger X series frame, the smaller load capacity. It probably doesn't matter so much for the regular Nomad though, the frame is so strongly built that is unlikely to flex whether large or small, and load limits probably have more to do with the handling...

Emailing SJSC is probably your best option anyway, the X series is very recent so hardly anyone has first hand experience.

[NZPeterG]

Well I ordered a STD Nomad MK2 in hot Yellow.
It's in New Zealand and I hope to have it Tuesday night, Over the weekend I have been busy lacing up my new wheels (http://kiwipetescyclingsafari.blogspot.co.nz/2012/06/wheels-build.html) I hope to have it up and running this weekend! 
Pete......
 

[Kuba]

Congratulations! I really hoped though to finally read a review of the X series.

[NZPeterG]

Congratulations! I really hoped though to finally read a review of the X series.

Hi a friend is getting a X in the same size as my new Nomad!
So may be up for a test of the two once my new Thorn come's?

 

Pete....

[NZPeterG]

Congratulations! I really hoped though to finally read a review of the X series.

Hi Kuba,
At long last I got to ride my friend's Thorn Nomad 565M X!
Did I find it faster? lighter? better? no just the some as My Thorn Nomad 540L! I was going to get a STD 565M too and the X was only 200g lighter! My 540L to 565M X? well the  565M X is only 5g lighter!
Yes the ride was short (Because the X seat was too high for me!) BUT I just love my Nomad STD 540L it has build up to best Mountain/Touring Bike I have had, It ride's like Mountain Bike's did back in the 1980's I may have to change the tyre's to some good road tyres and race a roadie down a long mountain pass  
I did this back in 1988 (in the U.K.) overtaking roadies and car's fully loaded down one long Mountain pass (I think it was 14 mile's long)
So to end the STD and the X are the same!
A Nomad is the Best touring bike I have had and I do not plan to replace it.
Nomad   is Great No looking back....

Pete..................
 

[revelo]

I think the problem in specifying the max weight is what Kind of surface are we talking about.  I have used my RST with far more than the Max specified by thorn.  (It did make the handling lively but didn't damage the bike) It would be great if Thorn would publish a list of max weights - split into 3 columns -  Comfortable Load, Max load, Off Road Load

Stutho 

Yes, that's a good point. Off load on corrugated roads (washboard to Americans, ripio to Argentines) can be very stressful to a bike. Andy Blance cuts the weight capacity of the Thorn racks by 50% if riding on ripio (from 60kg to 30kg for the rear rack if attached with 6mm bolts). Though I'm not sure how much it affects the frame.

Also, once I get to 40kg of loads on my Nomad (plus 20kg for the bike itself including racks and panniers), that makes for 60kg all told, which is enough to drag me down if the bike starts to fall over. So I have to be more careful riding a heavily loaded than lightly loaded bike on rugged surfaces.

The real question is whether using a slightly heavier load than the frame is designed for can damage a steel frame. 40kg on the 590M Nomad-X on very rugged corrugated/washboard/ripio roads, for example. Steel doesn't fatigue, right?

[Andybg]

You are right that steel does not fatigue like materials such as aluminium. It only fails if it goes beyond its limit of flex. The problem becomes not so much how much weight you put on the bike but the dynamic loading due to the quality of the surface you are riding on.

Saying half the load for bad roads is a rule of thumb. Even if you half the loads and the road is really bad you could damage the frame. On the other side you could run the same load and cycle carefully and cause the frame no damage.

There are no definite answers to this one. More a case of being sensible. If you are running heavy on bad roads just ride more consideratly than normal.

Dan is probably the best to give advice on running max weights off road. I rarely ride off road but am much more careful to avoid bad potholes with the bike heavily loaded than not.

I know the answer is a bit fuzzy wooly but life is just sometimes like that.

Hope this sort of helps

Andy