Sherpa for long distance loaded road touring?

[gamiko]

How is the Sherpa for long distance loaded road touring, like transcontinental US (in the extreme)?  I’m trying to choose a bike for fully loaded touring – and I am not a light packer when it comes to camping – and have read opinions that the Surly LHT is more of a road bike and the Thorn Sherpa is more of a mountain bike.  I’m not familiar enough with bike geometry principles to be able to sort that out myself, other than to note that the Sherpa has that mountain bike look of sloping top tube and ultra-long seat post.  Although I expect to spend almost all my time on pavement, I do want the bike to do well on unpaved roads such that I can explore and maybe even follow some of our pioneer trails, which are mostly trackable on pavement but not entirely.  I don’t see myself jumping rocks or bikepacking on singletrack.  Recognizing that this is a Thorn forum, would I be better off with more of a road bike like a Surly LHT?  I know a bike can't be everything, and I guess I need it to be more road than offroad. 

By the way, my inclination is to go with drop bars, and I don’t want to spend the money for a Rohloff.  I’ve already got a cyclocross bike for local rides and light touring.

Much thanks.

[rualexander]

If you want drop bars, then the Sherpa is probably better because it comes in sizes designed for drop bar use, i.e. the shorter top tube versions.
I would say your perception that the Sherpa is more mountain bike and the LHT is more road bike is wrong, unless you are looking at the 700c wheeled version of the LHT.
The Sherpa is an excellent long distance loaded tourer.

[lewis noble]

Hello!

I can only speak of my experience with my Sherpa - the Surly range looks good and has a strong and loyal following, but I have never owned or ridden one.

I reckon a Sherpa should suit you fine.  It will certainly handle long distance touring loads, the Nomad probably really only being needed for sustained off-road remote area work.  With an appropriate 26" wheelset, the Sherpa would also be fine on the trail / off road sections that you refer to, with a touring load.

My Sherpa is a lightweight spec model, with DT Swiss 32 h wheels and lightweight forks - very agile and surprisingly fast on good surfaces, and well able to stand up to potholed urban roads and trails / cycle tracks.  It is very similar to model C2 in the menus at the end of the Big Brochure a massive but well worth reading document!!  You would probably need something similar to E1 menu, heavier duty wheels and fork with lo-loader bosses. 

Whichever you get would serve you well.  The 26" wheels are very strong for loaded touring or if you hit a pothole or something in error (my light wheels have had a hell of a hammering on dreadful potholed urban roads but still run 100% true), and the bikes are very comfortable, stable and predictable in their behaviour - important when tired at the end of a long day.

The choice of frame length makes it easy to get a fit for straight or drop bars - I use a short frame, with straight bars, but like a more upright position, and with shortish arms, a tighter frame than many people.  . . . . and I'm toying with the idea of swapping to drops . . . . another story.

Thorn's frame sizing advice is excellent in my experience - worth taking care to measure your physique and current bike if you have one that suits you.

Good luck

Lewis

[mickeg]

I bought a LHT from their first year of production in 2004.  They changed the frame design soon after, so I can't really say that my shimmy problems with my LHT would have been repeated with the newer frames or not, but I got so frustrated with my LHT that I eventually put the frame in the metal recycle bin.  When I did my Pacific Coast trip from Astoria to San Fransisco (890 miles) I had gone about 20 miles on the LHT and concluded that I really wished I had brought my Sherpa instead.

That said, I know a lot of people love the LHT.  I did a group tour (Glacier Waterton loop) with Adventure Cycling and four of the sixteen riders had the LHT and they all loved the LHT.  But they had the newer version of the frame, not the original 2004 LHT frame I had. 

I do not know if my older frame design was the problem or if my frame had some out of spec tubing.  My frame did have a defective bottom bracket shell when I received it, I had to get that repaired at a bike shop and Surly said it was normal thus they refused to cover that under warranty.

I used my Sherpa on that Glacier Waterton Loop (Glacier National Park, Waterton Park in Canada), the Katy Trail (Missouri), GAP and C&O trail (Pittsburgh to Washington DC).  I also recently built up a Rohloff Thorn (Nomad), but I kept my Sherpa.  I expect to use both my Nomad and Sherpa on future bike tours.

I bought my Sherpa frame and fork used in 2010, I think it was fairly new when I got it.  I assume that the newer versions of the Sherpa are identical to mine when it comes to geometry and handling.

My LHT was 700c, 58cm frame and I had a very small amount of toe overlap, but it was so minor that it was hardly noticeable except when starting out from a stop.  My Sherpa is a size 610S, no toe overlap.

When I did the Glacier Waterton Loop on my Sherpa, I used 40mm wide Schwalbe Marathon (with GreenGuard) tires.  But when I do gravel trips I switch to a 50mm wide tire.  I think you would find a 35 to 40 mm wide tire works fine on pavement on the Sherpa.

The attached photos are of my Sherpa.

[gamiko]

That's all very reassuring.  I can see from other online discussions that it's easy to over-analyze this, and it helps to know simply that others are using the bike in the way I intend to.  Thanks.

[bikerta]

I bought my Sherpa for my John O Groats to Lands End trip, which was a solo camping trip. I could not have been more pleased with my decision to buy a Sherpa. The bike handled the load really well both on road and off road (on many canal tow paths and forestry tracks such as Great Glen Way)  I had 2" Schwalbe Duremes on Rigida Grizzly wheels as recommended by SJS Cycles and these proved to be excellent as the tyres rolled well on the road, but could also handle gravel tracks etc. Luckily there was not too much in the way of mud as this is where the Duremes as not so good.

The bike was very stable with ortlieb panniers front and back, handlebar bag and tent on top of rear rack. Of course, carrying a load like this does mean the bike slows very quickly when you come to a hill!  I went for a short frame with straight bars as I have a short arm span and this works perfectly with Ergon GP5 bar ends as you have just as many hand holds as with drop bars.

I can also recommend the service you get from SJS Cycles, luckily I only live an hour or so away from their shop.

[gamiko]

At risk of running off on a tangent, I'm curious about using straight bars for long distance road touring.  I may be overestimating how long I can travel in a Tour-de-France stance, but I was inclined towards drop bars more as a way of dealing with our infamous wind, and not so much as a way of varying my hand holds.

[martinf]

Andy Blance recommended flat bars with bar ends or comfort bars for long distance touring.
I tried flat bars with bar ends on my old bike for about 1000 km, but decided on drops for several reasons :

1 - I am used to drops, so biased
2 - I like to have my hands turned parallel to the bike's axis for most of the time on long rides. This is possible with the hood and hook position on drops, and on bar ends. But I also like to have the brake levers immediately available, which is not the case with bar ends. On drop bars I have auxiliary levers to brake from the tops.
3 - Into head winds, I prefer to go down onto the hooks on drops, rather than forwards as is the case wih bar ends.

But I kept the flat bars with bar ends, and use them quite happily for shorter trips on my utility bike.

I also quite like the North road (sit up and beg) type bar, also with hands turned parallel to the bike's axis, but this does not permit multiple hand positions like the other options. I may move to to this as I get older.

[John Saxby]

dealing with our infamous wind

I also use drop bars on my Raven, the Rohloff counterpart to the Sherpa. I use the Grand Cru randonneur bars from Velo orange. The ones on my Raven are the widest VO offers, 48 cms centre-to-centre at the end of the flared drops. These are (with padded tape) 45.5 cms outside-to-outside behind the hoods.

People obviously do use flat or flattish bars for touring--I spent a few days on the Icefields Parkway this past summer with a Kiwi, who had flat bars on his Surly LHT, for example.  How they manage with prolonged headwinds is beyond me.  In addition to meeting my preference to have my palms facing each other, the rando bars' flared drops give me a bit more width when I use the lowers.

When I fitted the bars to my Raven a couple of years ago, I also raised the bars relative to the seat, so that my default position (hands on the outer curve behind the hoods) is a couple of inches above the nose of the saddle. That gives me a more upright default stance not unlike that of many flat bars), but it also makes the drops much more accessible and easy to use--so much so that I often bend over to use the lowers as a variation on hand position.  There were times on my tour in the western mountains this summer, when I was on the drops for 6-plus hours a day. No way that I could have managed that with flat bars; other people, maybe, but not me.

Hope this is useful, though I realize it may be no more than an elaborate explanation of what works for me ;-)

[mickeg]

At risk of running off on a tangent, I'm curious about using straight bars for long distance road touring.  I may be overestimating how long I can travel in a Tour-de-France stance, but I was inclined towards drop bars more as a way of dealing with our infamous wind, and not so much as a way of varying my hand holds.

Whatever you do, I suggest you decide on the bars before you buy the bike.  Flat bars warrant a slightly longer top tube than drop bars.  If you look at the Thorn sizing information, you will note that they sell frames that are not just sized by seat tube length, but also by top tube length.

And if you are doing a total re-think on bars, also consider the trekking bars, there are a small number of trekking bar fans in USA because of the many options for hand positions.

I think it is personal preference.  I have seen a lot of bike tourists from continental Europe with flat bars, but in USA drop bars are the norm for touring bikes.

If you use bar end shifters, I have heard of some people that complain that their knees hit the shifters when they pedal out of the saddle.  I do not stand on the pedals, my knees can't take that much stress but years ago when I did I never had a problem with my knees hitting anything.  But I use bars of a proper width for my shoulder width and I do not pedal in a bowlegged fashion like I have seen some people pedal.

I used to use the drops on drop bars about 5 percent of the time and found them to be very uncomfortable.  But after losing about 15 to 20 percent of my body weight (now about 170 to 175 pounds at 72.5 inches height) I find that riding on the drops of drop bars is much more comfortable now.  Now I use the drops on my drop bars whenever I have a head wind or for fast downhills, probably about 20 to 25 percent of the time.  Tops of my drop bars are about the same height as the top of my saddle, or depending on which bike maybe slightly lower by a cm or two.

When I was in Iceland, there were some pretty strong winds on a few days, I could not have imagined what it would be like without drop bars on a day with those strong headwinds.

But I tour with a friend that switched to bars that I think he calls bullhorns.  They give him the ability to ride in a position very much like riding on the hoods with drop bars, but he has no drops for a more aero posture.  But he is obese and I think he would have trouble riding on the drops.  The attached photo shows his bike, it is the one on the left and is the one closest to the camera.  He has used these bars for several years now, he is very happy with them.  You can see he uses bar end shifters on those bars too.

I posted photos of my Sherpa above, but I have changed the bars to a different drop bar since those photos were taken.  The second photo attached is of my new Sherpa bars.  And a different handlebar bag too.

[bikerwaser]

I couldn't be happier with my Sherpa. And it's about as close to an "everything bike" as you can get but If you're wanting to do heavy touring mainly on the road It's awesome for that.
I have put 2 inch tyres on mine but it came with the 1.75 " panaracers which were excellent and probably more for what you're looking for.

I have my blog below which shows the bike in many photos , the mileage and also says how happy i've been with it and a whole lot more. I've heard good stuff about the LHT, but I'm glad I went for my Sherpa :

http://biker-waser.blogspot.co.uk/