Need to raise the stem & ID my unusual Thorn frame

[Bill C]

[Admin note: Changed topic title to better reflect the content as it evolved. -- Dan.]

been looking for ways to get a bit of height on my bars (origin8 gary dirt drops)
spotted this



 http://theradavist.com/2016/06/crust-bikes-limp-dick-stem-pre-order/
Velo Orange version


http://store.velo-orange.com/index.php/grand-cru-long-stem-nickel.html

anyone seen anything like it? preferably at a sane price as they are pretty expensive but to me look so much better than a huge stack of spacers

[Bill C]

I was serious on this topic!
i've been looking for a stem that would make drops feasible on the Thorn thingy i bought, it's a 20" frame i usually ride a 22 or in sherpa terms a 585
here's the frame


my sherpa needed a mass of spacers and then a tall stack stem to make it all day long comfortable


on the Klein i used an external bolt on steerer extender and on the Marin i used a internal quill type extender and on the dahon i'm slowly putting together i bought one of these


i looked at the LD stem as it seems the best looking and best weight solution,

it needn't look funky on the right bike

[TheShipwright]

Hi bill,
I assume you've seen and discounted this type of stem riser?

I quite like this type as you can still alter h/bar distance.

Best of luck

EDIt: Sorry I missed your point about not liking a tall stack of spacers.

[Dave Whittle Thorn Workshop]

Your Thorn "Thingy" is a Commutour.

[Danneaux]

Commutour brochure here:
http://web.archive.org/web/20030810005415/http://www.sjscycles.com/thorn/26solobrochure/commutour.htm
Owner pics here:
http://www.cyclofiend.com/ssg/2007/ssg124-chris1207.html
This one has a stem-riser adapter fitted:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/simon153/sets/72157633569279389/with/8777014553/

Best,

Dan.

[Bill C]

hi Dave n Dan

i have seen the pics of the commutour with the stem riser, thats why i started this thread,i thought the owners bike was fugly with that stem arrangment
used the same type in black on my Klein, thought it ruined the look of the bike
btw sorry about the title of the thread but the only way i could find out much about the stem was using limp dick stem in google searches, it's what they seem to of been called bitd

the reason i call it a thorn thingy is because of this thread http://thorncyclesforum.co.uk/index.php?topic=9337.msg81364#msg81364

i said at the time

Hi Jags
both listings say custom built  and Nemesis and 725,
tbh a large pinch of salt is needed as i think that's sellers bigging it up for a better price
the tubes look straight not conical so i'm guessing it's a commutour in reynolds 525, but according to the wayback machine commutours only had 1 set of bottle boss's
up post it says the Nemesis had caliper brakes but the only pic i can find shows it with canti's,
i bought it as it looks to be my size and fancied another project, can't think of a better one than a handbuilt Thorn by Mr Sayles 
should be all fine when it's done, might even be Alfine lol

i bought it thinking it was a mis-advertised commutour but since getting it i can't see how Thorn could of sold frames like this at a knock down price of £350 for the frameset, it's every bit as well made/finished as the fillet brazed xTc i am about to complete

i have spoken to the person who originally bought the bike from sjs and he reckoned it was sold as the post i linked to earlier, the spec is quoted in the first ebay listing, it was black with Thorn on the downtube 725 decals but no model name when he bought it
the serial number and it being stamped ks is mentioned also
i'll get out in a minute and take some pics
btw i bought it as a commutour so won't be crushed if that's what it is, i just can't see how my xTc was originally so expensive in comparrison

[Bill C]

some pics
stainless headbadge



sealed tubes

top tube/head tube


chainstays/bottom bracket


down tube/bb


top tube/seat tube


tyre clearance vittoria 40mm


50mm mudguard touching tyre and frame


rear wheel half way along drop out, very tight frame


stamped KS with frame number

[Danneaux]

Superb photos of your fine resto work, Bill!

What a joy to see!

Really nice to see the details on this frame, which certainly appear done to a very high standard.

All the best,

Dan.

[Bill C]

Hi Dan
glad you like the pics, i wasn't exaggerating about the frame
i have re-read the commutour advert/blurb, there is no mention of the frame having sealed frame tubes, no mention of the stainless head badge or the two sealed bottle bosses,
anyone who has read Thorns brochures will know that they are more than happy to blow their own trumpet on the bikes quality/features
pretty sure if the commutour came with the sealed tubes/stainless head badge  sealed bottle and frame bosses and  it would be plastered all over their description in their literature as it is below

a previous quote from a Thorn way back page

"The top tube, down tube, seatstays, chainstays, fork blades and bridges are completely sealed. These will never rust from the inside. We even fit stainless steel, blind ended bottle bosses into the down tube and use these in the seatstay and chainstay bridges ... NOBODY ELSE DOES THAT ... YET!
The seat tube must be open because of the seatpost - look after that with “WAXOYL” using the large drain plug and you will have a lifetimes use from the frame!"

they make a great deal about it in the xtc and nemesis blurbs here http://web.archive.org/web/20000308232737/http://sjscycles.com/ you will need to use the index to get to the Nemesis page, i can't work out how to copy the link

going by tyre clearance i doubt 40mm tyres are going to work in this frame as the rubber stubs from the injection process are all but touching the frame so it has minimal mud/ dog poo clearance
32mm tyres look more suitable

the bike was sold specced like this
Frame Material:    Steel Reynolds 725    
Brand:    Thorn
Frame Size:    Seat Tube c to top 51cm. Top Tube 56cm    
Model:    Nemesis
Number of Gears:    27
Shimano 30/42/52.
Shimano XT rear 12/34    
Gender:    Men
Brake Type:    Cantilever Tecktro Oryx
not the usual commutour set up

i know it has horizontal dropouts but then so does this and it aint no commutour it's a custom nomad
if you look it doesn't even come with shifter bosses on the downtube, they needed to use a clamp on version 



btw i have seen this pic of a nemesis (somewhere on here i have seen it wrongly described as a 26 audax) looking at the rear wheel frame clearance it bares a striking resemblance to the bike i'm re-doing

the owners post describing it here http://www.bikeforums.net/general-cycling-discussion/435108-chrome.html

sorry if i come across as a bit of a pedant, but i'd like to restore it the way it should be, just not in black 

[Danneaux]

Bill,

Based on the photos of your own frame and the Nemesis you linked to, yours have more Nemisis-like features than CommuTour in my eyes.

Hmm.

I wonder if this had been a one-off?

It surely has the higher-end features.

All the best,

Dan.

[Bill C]

Hi Dan
i'm stumped, not sure what it is, glad i bought it just wish it was a size larger as then i wouldn't need the ld stem
i have much the same problem finishing my old stock bare metal xTc, i hve bought the 531 fork and 725 frame  decals but i have no idea if the frame is 725 0r 853,the tubing wasn't mentioned in the sale description and the only frames i have seen with the pump peg on the head tube were 853,
if i can't find/work it out which it is i'll probably not apply the decals
bikes     almost as bad as stoves 

[Danneaux]

bikes     almost as bad as stoves 
[/quote?] Truly! 

If the frame really is a "one-off", then it may have what framebuilders call a "superset" or "supermix" of tubing, with different types used in various places to best effect. As I recall, Thorn once had a decal describing just such a mix on one of their bikes...early Audax, perhaps?

All the best,

Dan.

All the best,

Dan.

[Dave Whittle Thorn Workshop]

My guess is its a Thorn XTC based design, Kevin Sayles (KS) built it so I retract my last statement it definitely isn't a commutour as Kevin never built one and they were all 525 tubing a powdercoat back. My guess is that its some sort of custom built thing, possibly for a member of staff, the clearance looks tight like the old XTC SWB (but its not that as they had lugs...) but not as tight as a Nemesis (they had tyres that almost touched the back of the seat tube the chainstays were that short. Kevin is on Instagram so if you ask him he might remember. 

[brummie]

Kevin Sayles built Commutour ( Prototype ) Reynolds 725. Maybe the one featured in this post?

[Bill C]

Hi Brummie
is that your bike and if so how did you get rid of the bike? as Barry (the original seller of the complete bike) bought it off ebay from sjs, i just did a search of my emails and found some of my old messages between us
if you traded it in to sjs then i suppose it could be the same bike but if it is, it was rebuilt completely from the single speed in your pics as when he sold it it was 27 speed the spec is up post
somebody else then bought it off of Barry stripped it and sold the frame set to me a year or so later