Toe clip or spd??

[lewis noble]

Two falls was / were enough for me!!

What make / model are your SPDs??

[Tom]

I agree with Graham - SPDs are much easier to get out of than toe-clips.
But it's true - it can be annoying having to wear/change into cycling shoes.... depends how far you're going though I suppose.  I've noticed that toe-clips are definately making a revival in London now.
By the way, look out for the free 68 page Tour guide we're giving away with the Guardian on Monday 2nd. - Should be a good read
Tom, The Guardian

[jawj]

Hey Lewis, and all, thought I'd pop in my thoughts to this:

1) SPuDs, for me, are indeed the way and I use them plenty.

2) They give you quite a lot more acceleration, which I find very useful especially when the bike is (over)loaded and wallowing around when starting off or going up hill.

3) There are LOADS of models out there but I get on very well with Shimano's pedals. The newer models (M520, M540, M959, etc.) are SO much better than their old offerings (M515, etc.) in terms of ease of getting in & out and don't clog with mud nearly as much. The SPD/flat combo pedal is fine but features the older style of pedal on the SPD side.

4) To get the same upward power from a toeclipped pedal it really needs to have the strap done up tight over the foot (track racing style) which is obviously impractical for both on and off road use. I tried it once by leaning against a wall to do them up and soon realised what an idiot I was when I came to a stop away from the wall...

5) The multi-release cleats can be pretty nasty... I tried using them once, thinking they were the safest option. As I pulled up with my foot to accelerate away from a junction the pedal released and I drove my knee into the handlebars with not inconsiderable force. I don't mind admitting I cried... As far as I can tell multi-release is only really useful for situations where you're likely to come off the back of the bike or go over the handlebars, downhill racing maybe. These sort of falls (I've found...) don't always result in your pedals unclipping so I can see how multi-release would help.

Persevere indeed! It's worth it.

[sloe]

And another alternative is Power Grips

http://www.mtbr.com/reviews/Extras/product_87805.shtml

which let you use your normal walkabout shoes, but I use them with my beloved Goretex stiff-soled walking boots, and will use them with sandals when I can find smooth-uppered stiff-soled ones.

My pedals:

http://www.sjscycles.co.uk/product-MKS-MKS-MT-LITE-double-sided-Silver-Alloy-MTB-pedals-Black-Silver--per-pair-10787.htm

[lewis noble]

Thanks everyone - very helpful

Lewis

[neil_p]

Everyone has mentioned Shimano SPDs, which I have used previously, but I have recently switched to Speedplay Frogs, and believe they may be the solution for many people.  I'll try and explain my reasons...

I loved the definite click of the SPDs, and found releasing was fine as long as I you remembered to do so! However, whilst cycling End 2 End last year, my knees gave my serious problems.  It may have been the exertion of the trip, but I believe the pedals were something to do with it.

Shimano SPDs and, I believe, most other clipless pedals, involve some degree of "self centring".  In other words, although there is some degree of "float" (where the foot can swivel 15 or 20 degrees without releasing), the spring mechanism is always gently pulling the foot toward the "centred" position.

This means that when setting up your SPDs, you need to ensure the cleat is fitted to your shoe at the correct angle.  The correct angle is one which means when the SPD spring "centres" the shoe, the foot is being held at a natural angle.  The problem is that if the cleat is marginally "out", when cycling your foot is gently pulled into a non-natural position.

For many people this is fine - they can get the cleat spot on, or they have no ill effects caused by a wrongly set up cleat.  I believe though that anyone with knee problems needs to be exceptionally careful.

So, on to the Speedplay Frogs...

I'll let you visit the Speedplay website to look at photos and to see how the pedals work.  However, I would say that these pedals are great for the following reasons:

1. There is no self centring.  You still have "float", but there is no spring to pull the foot inwards.

2. The foot moves very freely - there is no resistance to pivoting the foot whatsoever.  I would liken it to having your shoe on an ice cube - it is that smooth!

3. The mechanism is very simple and there is no way it can get clogged with mud.  This is very different to SPDs where dried mud can prevent entry and removal.

4. There is no resistance to removing your feet - at first you will find you remove your foot without meaning to!

A few words of caution:

1. The Speedplay Frogs feel very different to SPDs.  As I said, at first you will find you remove your foot without meaning to.  But stick with it - you'll soon get used to the change.

2. There is no definite click when you slot your foot in - again this soon feels "right" - stick with it!

To finish...

I bought some Speedplay Frogs and some XTR SPDs a couple of weeks ago.  My plan was to send back whichever I didn't use.  After 3 miles I HATED the Speedplay Frogs.  I was furious and close to sending them back.  I stuck with it, and after only another 3 10k rides I am converted.  I don't know yet how my knees will be after I go cycling in France this summer, so I will let you know.

I hope that is of some use.

Neil

ps I don't work for Speedplay, I just really like them!

[Fred A-M]

Interesting feedback Neil: I developed some knee trouble last w/end and wondered whether it was due precisely to what you've described.  I'm hoping it's a freak twinge exacerbated by some strenuous riding as it seems to have disappeared with a day's rest: I'm off to northern Spain in 3 days time so time will tell I guess.  I'm hoping that I don't have to find an alternative as I'm now intuitively accustomed to the SPDs and haven't come a cropper since the above incident in Brixton.

[neil_p]

I think once your used to being "attached" to the pedals, you'll soon get used to the different sorts.

It's taken me 3 brief rides to get used to Speedplay, so I'm sure you'd be fine.

One thing I didn't say is that the Speedplay cleat is alot wider than the SPD one.  I had to hack a small slither of rubber from my shoes to accomodate it, but I think that's a small penalty for healthy knees!

Depending on how long your trip is, you might even want to get some Speedplay Frogs before you go.  You could always take the SPDs as backup?

[Fred A-M]

I'm using a campsite where my girlfriend and her family are staying as a focal point for multi-day sorties so if I have any difficulties, I'll be able to change circuits and rest accordingly.  My gut instinct/wish to maintain a positive outlook tells me that the problem is a one-off.  My would be father in law is an avid former competitive cyclist and masseur to boot, so advice and help and will be at hand if need be.  I'll definitely consider Speedplay as alternative on my return should the problem persist however!

[Paul B]

I have returned to toe clips and straps because I could not get comfortable with "clipless".  I had no problems clipping in or out and feeling "locked in" was never an issue but numb toes and foot cramps were.  I tried several types of SPD pedals and shoes (at great expense) and experimented with cleat position but always with the same result; foot cramps and numb toes.
With the old toe clips I have no problems at all and have the straps adjusted just tight enough to prevent the foot sliding around but loose enough to allow easy entry and exit.  Another bonus is that I can wear any old (cheap) footwear and not mark wooden floors with my cleats.  For leisure riding, I don't think clipless pedals offer much advantage.  After all touring is a leisure pastime not a race.

[Eric]

Lewis. Like you, I started in the '60s with clips, straps and plates. Now, I wouldn't go near them again. All my bikes have double sided Shimano M520 pedals (except my TT bike - Time RSX) and I unclip without even thinking about it, whether I'm touring, off-roading, training or utiity.
Stick with 'em![]

[Paul B]

I've tried various SPD pedal/shoes and have not liked any of them.  I don't have problems clipping in or out but I do find that my feet get painful when using SPDs.  I think it is more of an issue with the stiff soles of the shoes because I get foot cramps when wearing the SPD shoes off the bike too!  My feet just do not seem to be at home in stiff soled shoes.

I am using PowerGrips on two of my bikes and really like them.  They are a simple strap that holds the foot steady but still allows the rider to move his/her feet around to prevent hot spots.  They are really easy to get in and out off and you can use any type of shoe.

[janeh]

Hello,

After a few years riding in spd's and never feeling completely safe (i only actually fell off a couple of times), i went touring in the summer wearing trainers (yes shock horror!) and using my one sides spd's (normal pedal other side) as didn't want to buy new pedals. Felt much happier and safer, particularly with heavy load and going up hills. Haven't put spd's back. The speed i ride i don' t think they make any difference, and as for "pulling on the up stroke", not sure i ever really did that anyway..

Jane

[ians]

Like the OP - I also started bike riding in the 60s and have always used toe clips.  In the last 2 years I've moved to SPDs - had a couple of senior moments, but they're better for me because modern cycling shoes (I'm taking about SPDs rather than recessed cleat types) are not really designed for toe clips - they're just too big.  I came off a couple of times because the velcro fasteners got caught in the toe straps and I couldn't get my feet out quick enough.

I use Shimano M324s on my RST and Sterling and shimano A520s on my road bike - all of which means I can get away with one shoe (Specialized Tahoes) on all 3 bikes.

I set up a bike on the turbo trainer and practiced in the comfort of my home before venturing out in the road.

Not for everyone - but they work for me.
Ian

[malcon]

I used SPD's on all my bikes for the last few years and was very happy with them. This year I bought a mountain bike to ride with my grandchildren off road. I rode it in an old pair of gortex boots until I could buy someSPD's and having suffered cold feet on long winter rides was suprised to find I remained warm in the boots. I tried the same on my XTC which has dual dual use shimano's with the same result no cold feet, even after 3-4 hours in the recent cold weather.
I am thinking that cold feet are perhaps related to the rigid soles on SPD shoes this would explain why overshoes made very little difference to warmth.
Regards Malcon