Just the facts Ma'am

[onmybike]

Apologies in advance... What follows started out as a couple of small questions but seems to have evolved as a meandering free form rant. Read it at your own peril and if you can figure out what I'm asking ... 1. let me know, and 2. keep your answer short and sweet!

I am writing an in depth article on Rohloff hubs for crazyguy. The motivation is to demystify them and perhaps to counter the hysteria that follows any mention of a Rohloff in a touring forum - you know the stuff "Your hub WILL leave you stranded in Outer Remotistan with 100% certainty because I know someone who met someone who read somewhere that someone's cousin had it happen to them or their aunt"*. This will then be followed with links to the same three old articles that sort of prove their point except nobody actually got stranded, the issue turned out to be a broken cable or a replacement hub was sent free of charge.

Anyway, with that little rant out of the way, one area where I'd appreciate a bit more information has to do with the reasons for choosing between ex box or internal gear changers, and the pro and cons of each.

My impression is that an internal changer is more likely when the Rohloff is a retrofit and the dropouts aren't designed to accommodate an ex box. Am I missing something here, or is that what it boils down to? My own experience is 45,000km with an ex box so I've never really looked into the options.

In one of their crazyguy journals Pauline and Hugh Symonds coined the term "RAM - Rohloff Anxiety Moment" - this is that dreaded moment when you think something is wrong with your Rohloff and the thought of it being 'shipped off to Germany' for repairs flashes through your mind. As it happens, out of the 210ish Rohloff hubbed bikes featured in crazyguy journals the single biggest cause of RAM is the shifter and internal gear selection getting out of sync. Invariably this follows reassembly of the bike after using public transport or replacing a tire. I know the preventative answer is to move the shifter to gear 14 before removing the wheel and make sure it's still there when reattaching the wheel but for a new owner or even a bike mechanic unused to Rohloffs this is not apparent and causes a lot of grief - and is usually reported as an issue with the hub itself - "My Rohloff has lost gears - I thought it was supposed to be reliable, but that bike shop couldn't fix it and they're bike experts and it was really expensive and Donald Trump said it was made by foreigners so I got what I deserved..."*. Anyhow, short of selling new Rohloffs with a T-shirt emblazoned with 'Park it in 14' instructions I'm not sure a lot, other than education, can be done to remedy this situation. I've only noticed this issue reported on bikes using ex boxes. This may be because most Rohloff bikes on Crazyguy are made-for-purpose tourers with OEM dropouts and ex boxes but I'm also wondering if internal shifters suffer this malady or if the direct cable-to-cable connection prevents this from happening?

After the shifter and gearbox being out of sync, the next most reported 'Rohloff issues' are oil leaks and broken shifter cables, the latter of course is not Rohloff specific, and in fact far less likely than for a derailleur setup thanks to the untensioned cables but such is the power of a Rohloff Anxiety Moment that the most likely cause is the last one to be considered. One hapless tandemming couple cycled across northern France for a week in one gear convinced that they needed a Rohloff specialist to service the hub. On return to England they dropped the bike off with SJS, who, ahem, replaced a shifter cable.

Oil leaks... sigh. Perhaps that T-shirt should have 'Park it in 14' on one side and 'Stay calm and halve your oil intake' on the other. That said, I know Thorn now recommend a half dose of Speedhub oil. But what about the thinning oil? I assume it should still get the full dose so that it can slosh around a bit to flush out the old stuff?

In researching the article rather than scour all of the internet for Rohloff powered travelogues I limited myself to scouring on Crazyguy. I figured with 12,000+ journals it would provide a representative sample.

Some of the stats:

170 Rohloff journal authors.

210 Rohloff hubs. 72 of them on Thorns.

387 journals featuring Rohloff equipped bikes.

5 hubs from that sample were reported as requireing servicing or replacement (the authors don't always describe which but at least three were replaced, two of them for free, the third didn't say if it was a freebie or not). None of the rides ended because of this, some involved delays or detours and in one case the US distributor sent a replacement hub as a loaner before the tour even started and said they'd look at the old hub while the rider was away on tour - no verdict on the old hub was given in that journal so this may be a 'false positive'. So if the sample is accurate lets say 2.4% of hubs did require a service. Or, as an optimist might say, 97.6% did not. I have no figures as to how 2.4% compares to the derailleur experience over the same number of hubs and distance, and don't feel like randomly sampling 387 derailleur journals to find out but compared to my personal experience (150,000km+ on my previous derailleur equipped tourers) I'd have to say 'very well'.

One rider broke a hub flange but in fairness to Rohloff he also had destroyed the entire rim and takes the prize for the heaviest touring rig I've ever seen - four panniers, oversize rack pack, handlebar bag and huge custom trailer. This could happen to any hub (I'm looking at you, XT) and I don't see it as being a Rohloff specific issue.

One further pair of riders sent a hub to Germany for a service but it doesn't appear they had any issues with it. Rather, they decided mid-tour to swap their singles for a tandem and while they waited for their custom tandem to be made decided to have the chosen transplant hub serviced. Perhaps they required mods to suit their new bike (change from ex box to internal or vice versa) but they didn't give any detail.

When the article is finished it will have links to all the Journals I found and every instance, whether RAM or real where the author felt the need to mention 'problem' and 'Rohloff' in the same breath. It will also include links to the outcome. It has a page dedicated to the Rohloff Anxiety Moment, its causes and solutions. Another page lists Rohloff touring bike builders. All of this is complete and only waiting on the 'Choosing a Rohloff' and 'Rohloff maintenance' pages to be finished before it goes live.

So if anyone would like to chip in with their thoughts, especially on the differences between ex box and internal shifting, and if the thinning oil should be a full dose, or if they have actual insider knowledge of failure rates, please reply.

Thank, Syd


* Not a real quote, but you get the idea.

[Danneaux]

Big project, Syd, but a potentially very useful one to those considering a future purchase.

Data points: I've used two Rohloff-equipped Thorns extensively now: My own Nomad with the external shift-box and AndyBG's RavenTour with the internal.

• The internal is rumored to have slightly easier shift effort, but my hands are pretty sensitive and I did not notice a difference.

• The two shiftboxes differ in their cable attachment to the hub, but in practical use I found there was no appreciable difference in difficulty ("none" for me) and convenience. I prefer the external connection simply because it uses a single thumb wheel to attach instead of two bayonet mounts, so one is quicker than two. I also prefer the lower cable run of the external shifter for aesthetics and because I don't have to feel three cables (2 Rohloff, 1 brake) if I lift the bike by the top tube or shoulder it for portages.

• The internal shifter uses a smaller diameter cable (0.9mm), while the external uses a standard 1.1mm indexed derailleur cable. Rohloff once addressed this in their onsite FAQ and said the external box was preferred for world tourists; I would assume easier 1.1mm cable availability may have figured into the equation.

• I had fun playing with my cables and found cable changes in the external shifter are a breeze (at least for me), on-par with a derailleur cable change if you have a way of measuring your cables before cutting -- I made a little brass sizing tube to carry with me on tours). I use a beta-cyanoacrylate (super super glue) on the ends of my cut cables, so they don't splay under the grub screws, making them easier to reuse if required.

If one has the internal shifter and carries a pre-loaded shift-cable cassette, changes are also quick and easy to accomplish on the road.

• It seems external gearboxes can eventually become sticky due to a lack of lubrication. I've seen it happen among my online friends who sent me photos of light galling between the pulley and gearbox housing. Periodic lubrication of the pulley wheel is indicated, but most people don't seem to. Early on, I packed my external gearbox full to the brim with Phil (Wood) waterproof grease and have not had a bit of trouble or leakage between my periodic inspections since.

• It seems a Very Good Idea to change the hub oil by indicated mileage or time, whichever comes first. I've corresponded with a number of people who figured an oil change was a waste of time and money if the hub was just sitting there. I disagree. I'm not sure how hydrophilic Rohloff's oil is, but ~USD$25 for annual maintenance doesn't seem excessive on a hub with such low operating costs.

• Yep; short-filling to Thorn's recommended levels seems key to avoiding leaks. Mine does not leak nor does it show evidence of any real misting, but I do wipe it down after my rides, as I do my derailleur bikes.

• A fellow Forum member contacted me off-list to say he is experiencing a sort of low-grade rumble and stiffness in his starting about 10 months ago. We've gone through the steps including oil changes, cable tension. worn chain/chainrings/sprocket and whacking the axle end with a soft-faced mallet to no avail. His next step is to contact Rohloff. He is located very far away from both SJS Cycles and Rohloff, so is considering a send-in to be a last step. Despite the vibratory rumble and stiffness, the hub continues to perform flawlessly and shifts well on his daily all-weather commutes, so no disabling failure.

• You've no doubt read Thorn designer Andy Blance's _Living With a Rohlooff Hub_, but a link to it might prove a helpful reference point in your article. See: http://www.sjscycles.com/thornpdf/ThornLivingWithARohloff.pdf

Hope this helps. All encouragement, Syd.

Best,

Dan.

[onmybike]

Thanks, Dan. As usual your reply is a thorough and clear one.

I have read Andy Blance's living with a Rohloff and plan on providing a link to it from the article but maybe with a warning that it's written by a Rohloff evangelist, and salesman. However I'm still puzzled with his comments, on page 1, that in 2002 Rohloff claimed to have never had a hub fail and at an unclear later date (2009?) repeated the claim. I guess it may have to do with what their definition of 'failure' is. They've certainly replaced a number of dysfunctional units over time and I have personally met three riders who say they've had replacements - two of them under warranty. My own feeling is that if the hub has reached the point that a replacement is shipped out by the manufacturer it ought to count as 'failed'!

A big part of the reason for writing the article is to cut through the noise (on both sides) and look at the real experiences of an actual cross section of touring users. Hence it will not feature a mention of the users I've met who've had hubs replaced, and it will not be curated from selection of personally chosen blogs, or be created by googling 'rohloff troubles' and presenting the results as fact. Instead I've chosen Crazyguy as a hopefully representative chunkette of the touring world and found every single instance of people riding Rohloffs on that site and then read every single one of those journals (well, a guy's gotta have a hobby!) and then noted every instance where the rider has associated a problem with their Rohloff. I've then looked at the issues they've brought up and tried to figure out if they're unique to Rohloff (e.g. gear box/shifter syncing, missing gears, oil leaks) or more general (e.g. frayed cables, iced cables, operator error). One thing I have noticed through my reading is that new Rohloff users will very often jump to a 'worst case scenario' assumption and feel that whatever the problem is it must be unique to Rohloff and they can't do anything about it until a Rohloff specialist takes a look. Another thing I've noticed is that nobody who sets off on a world tour appears to carry spares anymore! What's up with that? I'll admit though, that having a village blacksmith in Inner Remotistan fabricate a Rohloff Removal Tool for you (https://www.crazyguyonabike.com/doc/page/?page_id=323014) is much more of an adventure than just pulling it out of your tool kit.

To be genuinely even handed I guess I should look at an equal number of derailleur journals and log every instance of transmission troubles and outcomes but my personal (and therefor biased) opinion tells me that's gonna be a long list.

[julk]

Syd,
My first Thorn Rohloff was with an ex box.
As Dan says, it is the neatest setup with cables kept well out of the way. As long as you put some grease in the box and park it in 14 to undo/redo then it is hard to get it wrong.
It is also the neatest solution for a frame with S&S couplings as you leave it attached to the front half when splitting the frame.
The only downside I can think of is the low position does leave it a tad vulnerable to strike from underneath if say you ride in a narrow gully or a sunken vehicle tyre track.

My second Thorn Rohloff is with an internal hub and I find this very good as well. The gear change is smoother, but I think this is because Rohloff hubs have some variation and this one is just better and newer. The position of the cables as they pass the rear brake looks less likely to be struck by anything, but it might also get in the way if you are planning to fit something close by that point.
I find it easier than the ex-box to connect/disconnect the cables with the gear change in the right position as it is all visible and self setting to my mind. The only thing you could do wrong is try to cross connect the cables - I have never managed to do this.

Good luck with the article.
Julian

[onmybike]

I find it easier than the ex-box to connect/disconnect the cables with the gear change in the right position as it is all visible and self setting to my mind.

Thanks Julian. I suspected that was the case so it's nice to have confirmation.

Also, I did find one rider on crazyguy who managed to cross connect his cables but he was having a bad week in the Andes, wasn't carry spares he desperately needed and his tour finally imploded the following week. So I suspect the cross connecting issue was just a symptom of being in the wrong frame of mind.

[John Saxby]

Hi Syd,

Interesting project, very much a public service, and thanks for taking it on.  I'll look forward to your reports and the eventual "finished" article.

My experience is limited to three seasons' use of the internal shifter box on my Thorn Raven.  I don't foresee any RTW tours -- rather, tours of 3-4 weeks' duration in fairly benign conditions. (e.g.: just finished 3 1/2 weeks of cycling, 2300+ kms, in the Rocky Mtns & Cascadia of Alberta, BC, and Montana-Idaho-Washington states.)  My Rohloff performed flawlessly, as it has in the three years I've owned it. The only times I thought about it were when (i) I was reflecting that I never worried about getting the gear I needed, when I needed it, lugging self & bike & gear over yet another high pass; (ii) I was glad I'd changed to a 36 x 17 ring/sprocket setup, especially on the couple of occasions when I needed 1st gear; (iii) I thought back to my derailleur days, by the end of which I had very little confidence  that the drive train would do what it was supposed to do.

I did carry an assortment of tools for the Thorn EBB, some nuts & bolts for bike & hub, and spares such as the Easyfit shifter pulley & cable attachments.  Didn't use any of those, nor my camping-gear repair kit, nor my first-aid ditto -- see above re "benign conditions".

The few times I've removed the rear wheel, I've found the twist connectors easy to use. Never any problem similar to the ex-box "park it in 14 or 1" requirement, though I usually turn the shifter to 8 before removing the wheel, to keep the cables at a comparable length.

So, no Rohloff Anxiety Moments. Pretty uninteresting history, I'm pleased to report -- everything performing as advertised & expected  :-)

By the end of this riding season, I'll have nearly 10,000 kms on bike and hub, a modest total to be sure. I will take the bike to Toronto this fall, for the hub to be checked over by the newly-certified Canadian Rohloff distributor & repair agent in that city (Alan Wu of Spokewrench Cycles, happily a couple of blocks from our daughter's flat.)

Cheers,

John

[Andre Jute]

I think that statistically, in a general sense, you're safe, Syd, with more than an adequately large sample base, though of course the clowns will argue that your sample was drawn from "experts", seeing how they're all world tourers on Crazy Guy's blog. Three things about statistics you want to keep in mind when dealing with kibbitzers: 1. They're just trying to raise their own profile at the expense of all your sterling work without doing any analyses of their own, so tell them to go generate their own data. 2. You can never please everybody, so don't even try. 3. Statistical data gathering and interpretation is more of an art than a science, so it is all right to use your insights from a 100,000 miles and more of touring -- in fact, that is the illumination shining through what otherwise might be merely raw data.

I must say, while I already know from reading this forum that many of the so-called "Rohloff problems" are psychosomatic and created by the elevated price of the gear box rather than mechanical gremlins, I'm surprised that people who think they have what it takes to tour Outer Remotistan should so little inform themselves about a crucial component of their bike as to suffer the same vapours as the stay-at-homes.

If you were to present your data as representing all Rohloff gearboxes, there would be a valid objection that the sample you counted is of Rohloffs on extreme service. The number of breakages, or even psychosomatic upsets, in the general population of Rohloff's would likely be far less.

I can resolve your apparent difficulty about "failure" and replacement of Rohloff boxes. Bernd Rolloff explained this once, though I'm too rushed now to look it up. What he actually said was there had been no "catastrophic failure" of a Rohloff box. No one's tour was ever terminated because a Rohloff box failed. (And there have been no catastrophic failures among the mud racers, who are the majority of Rohloff users, and the intended market, not tourers.) Rohloff replaced some sent-in boxes simply because it was either faster for the customer who wanted to continue with his tour and probably had hard dates to meet on his air transport, or because they suspected there was a real, if non-terminal, problem which would take too much expert time to diagnose and fix and test, i.e. in a real sense, again for the customer's convenience. In fact, knowing what trained engineers cost, I'm surprised we don't hear of more examples of the latter case. I suppose it is a matter of pride to be able to say there has been no total failure.

I loved your image of the peasant blacksmith in Outer Stanistan hammering out (in?) a Rohloff sprocket socket on his anvil, lit in silhouette by his forge blazing away, the cyclist's face red as he pumps the bellows...

[mickeg]

I am an engineer, I have changed engines in a couple vehicles, I used to do all of my own work on my vintage Triumph motorcycles.  And when it comes to bicycles, I used to work in a bike shop.  My last three new bikes were not new bikes, but were new frames that I built up.  This included buying the spokes and lacing up the wheels myself.  Thus, I never had any Rohloff anxiety the way you describe it because if something does not work, I am used to fixing it. 

On my Rohloff bike, I bought the frame and fork that had the cable fittings for the EX box, thus that is what I have.

What you referred to as getting out of syn, or when I put the EX cable box back on the Rohloff and it is in the wrong gear.  It is so easy to fix, that it has not forced me to try to learn how to prevent it.  Two days ago, I put the EX box back together after changing cables.  I of course had forgotten to leave my gear in 1 or 14 before disassembly.  My highest gear after re-assembly on the shifter said it was gear 12.  So, I took the EX box off the hub with it still in that highest gear, turned my shifter from gear 12 up to gear 14 and reassembled.  And it works fine, I now have all 14 gears.  No big deal.

I prefer my bike forums to be free of politics, please do not name any political figures here in the future.

Regarding spares, on my Iceland trip I brought the sprocket removal tool because Thorn says you should carry it.  But no chain whip or other big wrench, so other tools would have been necessary to remove the sprocket.  I also carried one spare cable that was not cut to length, a low quality cable cutter that hopefully would have been up to the task, two plastic drinking straws that were 100mm each.

Topics not mentioned by you, but I will add:

1.  Some have complained of wearing out the shifter rubber grip.  I have not worn mine out or even had noticeable wear, but I did add a bead of Shoe Goo to it because when my hands were wet and slippery, it helped me get better grip on it.  If you try this, start out with just a little, it is easy to add more later if you desire.

2.  If your writing is to be on Rohloffs, you should mention the belt drive option.  Although that is largely unmentioned on this forum because Thorn does not use belts, when I was in Iceland I saw a total of six other Rohloff bikes, two of which were belt drive.  Some of the bike manufacturers are jumping on the belt bandwagon, so that is a topic that warrants some review.  One of the belts of the two I saw in Iceland was the older type, the other the newer type.  The owner of the older type said that the newer ones he had heard required a very accurate chainline.  He also said that he thought that the belt added more friction compared to chain.  One of the belt owners said he was carrying a spare belt since they were not sold in Iceland.  I have no opinion on the chainline (or is it belt-line?), I am only repeating what I heard.

3.  I prefer chain over belt, I use a different chain ring for around home use than for touring to get a different range of gears.  A belt drive would complicate that since you can't add a few links to a belt.

4.  When I changed the cables a couple days ago, I used standard 1700mm cables, I think they had the Shimano heads, the head was 4.3 mm in diameter.  I found that my cables were slightly too long.  Instead of cutting the cables shorter, I added about 1 to 1.5 cm of outer housing instead to get the cable length right.  (I used electrical tape to tape the housing together.)  This way, when I carry a spare cable, a 1700mm cable (hopefully?) will be exactly what I need without needing it cut.

5.  My only Rohloff anxiety was ordering it and triple checking to make sure I was ordering the exact one that I wanted (skewer instead of solid axle, 36 and not 32 spoke, EX box, black, non-disc, type of frame/torque arrestor) since I was ordering it from a seller in a foreign country, thus returns would be complicated.  They have many options that make ordering a careful process to follow.

6.  Cost in USA is absurd.  I ordered my Rohloff from a seller in Germany because the exclusive USA distributor charges a horrendous profit.  After I got it, that seller in Germany apparently was told not to compete with the monopoly in USA, so that seller will not ship to USA anymore.  The cost of the 250 ml oil in USA is about two and a half times as much as I paid to a seller in Germany that shipped it to me in USA before they stopped selling Rohloff stuff to USA.  And people wonder why you almost never see a Rohloff in USA?  A neighbor of mine is a bike shop mechanic in a large shop, and my Rohloff is the only one he has ever seen, there has never been a Rohloff bike in the shop where he works.  If the prices charged for Rohloffs in USA were competitive with prices in continental Europe, maybe they would sell a lot more in USA.

7.  And why did they use a Torx wrench size that is not used by anyone else on bicycles?  I carry the wrench (that I had to buy) with my tools and spares, but I did change two of the bolts (on the shifter) to normal Allen wrench bolts.

[JimK]

mickeg has it exactly right about syncing the shifter with the hub with an EX box - it is super easy! I usually forget to park it in 1 or 14 and still when I put the box back on it is still in sync. But even if the shifter got moved, it is trivial to resync.

I have had two shifter cable failures. The first one had the cable all frayed in the shifter so it got really hard to shift. The second was a clean break out on the road. As I recall that break was in the shifter also. Probably I should get a new shifter! Anyway I carry an 8mm wrench on the road so putting the bike into a reasonable gear is easy enough. Changing shifter cables is slightly tricky but really I am a rank amateur mechanic and it is definitely not over my head.

[onmybike]

Hi Syd,

...
My experience is limited to three seasons' use of the internal shifter box on my Thorn Raven.  I don't foresee any RTW tours -- rather, tours of 3-4 weeks' duration in fairly benign conditions. (e.g.: just finished 3 1/2 weeks of cycling, 2300+ kms, in the Rocky Mtns & Cascadia of Alberta, BC, and Montana-Idaho-Washington states.)  My Rohloff performed flawlessly, as it has in the three years I've owned it. The only times I thought about it were when (i) I was reflecting that I never worried about getting the gear I needed, when I needed it, lugging self & bike & gear over yet another high pass; (ii) I was glad I'd changed to a 36 x 17 ring/sprocket setup, especially on the couple of occasions when I needed 1st gear; (iii) I thought back to my derailleur days, by the end of which I had very little confidence  that the drive train would do what it was supposed to do.
...

By the end of this riding season, I'll have nearly 10,000 kms on bike and hub, a modest total to be sure. I will take the bike to Toronto this fall, for the hub to be checked over by the newly-certified Canadian Rohloff distributor & repair agent in that city (Alan Wu of Spokewrench Cycles, happily a couple of blocks from our daughter's flat.)

Cheers,

John

Thanks for the reply John and I couldn't agree more with your experience using a Rohloff. I've been finding it hard to put in words just how easy to use, reliable and low maintenance a Rohloff is. "Easy to use, reliable and low maintenance" sums it up but I've found the average derailleur rider simply won't get it until they spend a month with a Rohloff and then go back to their derailleur bikes. "Easy to use, reliable and low maintenance" also lacks a bit in aspirational sales speak - "Lighter, Faster, Sexier and made from Unobtanium!" is waaaaay better as a sales pitch, but sadly inapplicable to this hub.

Also good to see the ever expanding network of sales and repair agents. The fear of having to 'send it back to Germany' should be allayed by now.

[onmybike]

I think that statistically, in a general sense, you're safe, Syd, with more than an adequately large sample base, though of course the clowns will argue that your sample was drawn from "experts", seeing how they're all world tourers on Crazy Guy's blog...

... 3. Statistical data gathering and interpretation is more of an art than a science, so it is all right to use your insights from a 100,000 miles and more of touring -- in fact, that is the illumination shining through what otherwise might be merely raw data.
...
If you were to present your data as representing all Rohloff gearboxes, there would be a valid objection that the sample you counted is of Rohloffs on extreme service. The number of breakages, or even psychosomatic upsets, in the general population of Rohloff's would likely be far less.

I can resolve your apparent difficulty about "failure" and replacement of Rohloff boxes. Bernd Rolloff explained this once, though I'm too rushed now to look it up. What he actually said was there had been no "catastrophic failure" of a Rohloff box. No one's tour was ever terminated because a Rohloff box failed. (And there have been no catastrophic failures among the mud racers, who are the majority of Rohloff users, and the intended market, not tourers.) Rohloff replaced some sent-in boxes simply because it was either faster for the customer who wanted to continue with his tour and probably had hard dates to meet on his air transport, or because they suspected there was a real, if non-terminal, problem which would take too much expert time to diagnose and fix and test, i.e. in a real sense, again for the customer's convenience. In fact, knowing what trained engineers cost, I'm surprised we don't hear of more examples of the latter case. I suppose it is a matter of pride to be able to say there has been no total failure.
...

Actually crazyguy is not all world tourers. The majority of tour journals on there are probably a month or less, many just a few days. But it's also no surprise that problems would show up on bikes being used for world tours - in one ride they can cover more ground under harsher conditions than most bikes would cover in a lifetime. A great testing ground for any product.

Oh but I wish those 100,000 miles were all touring. They were all on touring bikes, but half of that total was spent commuting and going to the shops 

The context of the article is Rohloffs for touring use, so my sample source should be fine.

"catastrophic failure" is a pretty exclusive definition. I'd love to see a market breakdown on who buys Rohloffs. I can only remember meeting one other Rohloff owner who wasn't a tourist. But then I live a sheltered life and the majority of cyclists I actually meet are the passing tourers I host (7:3 ratio in favour of Rohloffs in the past two years! - I almost thought I was normal). The roadies just flash past me and the mountain bikers drive by with their bikes strapped to their 4wds, so we never get to know each other.

[onmybike]

...
What you referred to as getting out of syn, or when I put the EX cable box back on the Rohloff and it is in the wrong gear.  It is so easy to fix, that it has not forced me to try to learn how to prevent it.  Two days ago, I put the EX box back together after changing cables.  I of course had forgotten to leave my gear in 1 or 14 before disassembly.  My highest gear after re-assembly on the shifter said it was gear 12.  So, I took the EX box off the hub with it still in that highest gear, turned my shifter from gear 12 up to gear 14 and reassembled.  And it works fine, I now have all 14 gears.  No big deal.

I prefer my bike forums to be free of politics, please do not name any political figures here in the future.
...

Topics not mentioned by you, but I will add:

1.  Some have complained of wearing out the shifter rubber grip.  I have not worn mine out or even had noticeable wear, but I did add a bead of Shoe Goo to it because when my hands were wet and slippery, it helped me get better grip on it.  If you try this, start out with just a little, it is easy to add more later if you desire.

2.  If your writing is to be on Rohloffs, you should mention the belt drive option.  Although that is largely unmentioned on this forum because Thorn does not use belts, when I was in Iceland I saw a total of six other Rohloff bikes, two of which were belt drive.  Some of the bike manufacturers are jumping on the belt bandwagon, so that is a topic that warrants some review.  One of the belts of the two I saw in Iceland was the older type, the other the newer type.  The owner of the older type said that the newer ones he had heard required a very accurate chainline.  He also said that he thought that the belt added more friction compared to chain.  One of the belt owners said he was carrying a spare belt since they were not sold in Iceland.  I have no opinion on the chainline (or is it belt-line?), I am only repeating what I heard.

...

4.  When I changed the cables a couple days ago, I used standard 1700mm cables, I think they had the Shimano heads, the head was 4.3 mm in diameter.  I found that my cables were slightly too long.  Instead of cutting the cables shorter, I added about 1 to 1.5 cm of outer housing instead to get the cable length right.  (I used electrical tape to tape the housing together.)  This way, when I carry a spare cable, a 1700mm cable (hopefully?) will be exactly what I need without needing it cut.
...

6.  Cost in USA is absurd.  I ordered my Rohloff from a seller in Germany because the exclusive USA distributor charges a horrendous profit.  After I got it, that seller in Germany apparently was told not to compete with the monopoly in USA, so that seller will not ship to USA anymore.  The cost of the 250 ml oil in USA is about two and a half times as much as I paid to a seller in Germany that shipped it to me in USA before they stopped selling Rohloff stuff to USA.  And people wonder why you almost never see a Rohloff in USA?  A neighbor of mine is a bike shop mechanic in a large shop, and my Rohloff is the only one he has ever seen, there has never been a Rohloff bike in the shop where he works.  If the prices charged for Rohloffs in USA were competitive with prices in continental Europe, maybe they would sell a lot more in USA.

Thanks for the terrific response. there's a lot to work with here.

As you say the syncing issue is "no big deal" - but only if you know what's happened. The first time it happened to me it took a couple of days to realise something was up. I'd only lost a couple of gears and was riding in unchallenging terrain so didn't even notice it (I never look at the numbers on the shifter). Once I'd been over a couple of hills and realised something was wrong I figured it out for myself but not without a Rohloff Anxiety Moment first. What I noticed in the crazyguy journals was that some people rely on bike shops for everything - including fixing flats, changing tires, and re-assembling a bike after public transport, and those bike shops, like yours, have never encountered a Rohloff. The downside is that after a fix as simple as replacing a tire the rider finds themselves with reduced gears and the problem may take days to make itself obvious as it did in my experience, by which time the link between the cause and the effect has been lost - all the rider knows is that they've lost a few gears. As much as I'm against yellow nanny-state warning stickers. Would it hurt to have one on the ex-box stating "Place in gear 14 before removing or replacing".

Point taken on political comment. I've got to stop ranting on forums when I'm tired.

Thanks for the additional topics. I've already touched on some of them in my so-far unpublished article but you've given me some extra food for thought.

A couple of years ago I hosted a tourist on a belt drive Koga Signature. His only issue was oil sweat from the hub caused the belt to squeak annoyingly. I can't remember exactly what he said (I'll chase him up) but it may have been that the squeaking was worst with a combination of both the oil and rain.

Great idea about the cable housings!

I concur with your comments on restrictive trade practises. For a long time I bought all my Rohloff spares from Bike24 in Germany, and like you had bought bulk oil (and a lot of spares) before head office put a stop to it. So I'm set for the next decade. Luckily in Australia the price of a new hub isn't all that much more expensive than in Europe. Unluckily, online spares in Oz are not only pricey but very, very scarce. I can only think of one local online shop (St Kilda Cycles) who list any, but if you want much more than an oil change kit you'll probably have to contact them directly or have your LBS place a special order for you. Ortleib have instituted the same restrictive policy. If you want to sell their product online into Australia - you must have a bricks-and-mortar presence in this market.

[mickeg]

One more item for your list.  I mentioned above that I like to tour with a different chainring than I use at home on my Rohloff bike, I lower my entire gear range for touring if I anticipate steep hills.  An additional comment on that topic is that it would be very difficult to change an entire gear range up or down for the conditions with a derailleur touring bike, but it is easy with a chain driven IGH.

...
What I noticed in the crazyguy journals was that some people rely on bike shops for everything - including fixing flats, changing tires, and re-assembling a bike after public transport, and ...

That is why the first thing I said was my background on bikes.  Thus, you could see why my comments were written the way they are, I only rarely hire a bike shop to do anything and when I do it is only because they have the specialized tools.

...
I concur with your comments on restrictive trade practises. For a long time I bought all my Rohloff spares from Bike24 in Germany, and ...

Yup, I also bought my Rohloff and some of the spares from Bike24, when I could.  A few examples are:

Bike 24 for the 250 ml oil (both oils) at the time I write this (July 27, 2016) is 36.89 Euros excluding VAT, which in USD is $40.59 before shipping (Reuters is my currency conversion source).  Shipping to USA (if they were willing to do so) would be another 20 Euros, but you can put a lot of goods into the order for that shipping price.
https://www.bike24.com/1.php?content=8;product=27597;menu=1000,185,190

Cycle Monkey is the only Rohloff seller I know of in USA, they want $107 USD for the two bottles.  Add $8 USD for shipping.
http://cyclemonkey.bigcartel.com/product/rohloff-speedhub-500-14-oil-8402-8403-8404-8405-8406-8410-8411

And for the Rohloff hub that I have, cycle Monkey wants $1625 before shipping.  Bike24 lists a very similar hub at 865 Euros or $952 USD excluding VAT before shipping cost.
http://cyclemonkey.bigcartel.com/product/rohloff-speedhub-500-14-internal-gear-hubs
https://www.bike24.com/1.php?menu=1000%2C2%2C98;search=speedhub+ex+cc+oem2;content=8;product=12579

[Mike Ayling]

Syd,

We have 6,500 km on our Thorn tandem and I have 2,500 km on my Thorn Mercury and all is going well.

I replaced the drive chain on the tandem at about 5,000 km. The timing chain still has some life in it.

Both bikes have the EX box.

I experienced the don't remove the EX box unless the shifter is in #14 issue but managed to to sort it outmyself. The EX box has been  removed at least half a dozen times to break the bike for rail transport using the S&S couplers as well as the regular grease function.

The shifter on the tandem is getting smooth so I will shortly apply the shoe goo.

The shifter on the Mercury is newer and has more prominent ridges than the tandem so these should last longer.

Would I get another Rohloff - without question.

Cheers

Mike

[onmybike]

Syd,

We have 6,500 km on our Thorn tandem and I have 2,500 km on my Thorn Mercury and all is going well.
...
...
...

The shifter on the tandem is getting smooth so I will shortly apply the shoe goo.
...
Would I get another Rohloff - without question.

40,000+ km on my Nomad. As you say "still going strong".

Might add a paragraph to the article on life expectancy for the shifter grips - I think it says something that the part most likely to wear out isn't a mechanical one! Mine (original triangular one) looks good for quite a few more years even though it shows signs of wear.

"Would I get another Rohloff" - Ditto