[THORN KICKSTAND POLICY] Bicycle stand for Club Tour

[bike_the_planet]

Hi Folks,

My wife is adamant that she would like a kick-stand fitted to her Thorn Club Tour Mk3, size 533S.

My concern is that, from what I can see,  the standard kick-stand clamps on to the chain-stays just behind the bottom bracket shell and risks chewing them to bits, as well as create a twisting stress on the bottom bracket area in general. Particularly as my beloved is fond of using said bike for shopping, meaning that she often rides with loaded rear panniers...

Does anyone know of any relatively benign but effective kick-stands that I could fit without ruining an otherwise great bike?

Any experiences/suggestions gratefully received.

Tony

[Title changed and topic made sticky for reference. - Dan.]

[Dave Whittle Thorn Workshop]

Just in case you haven't seen the FAQ on the website:

Here at Thorn Cycles we provide a lifetime warranty on our frames that are bought as part of a complete bike build. We do not fit kick stands to our bikes as a part of any build. If you insist that we fit a kick stand for you, or if you choose to fit one to your bike post build, we will not entertain any claims for damage arising from the use of or fitment of a prop/kickstand.

Damage can result in several ways:

Where the stand fits to the bike the clamp will inevitably damage the paint finish, this allows water to track under the finish and cause corrosion.
Where the stand fits to the bike on some models the thin gauge tubing used will be crushed, this may cause a stress fracture of the tube or weld area.
When on the stand you or a passer by may lean on the bicycle and your/their weight may cause the stand to break and the bicycle to fall or worse the tube where the stand fixes to be crushed or damaged.
The load most of our bikes are able to carry combined with the weight of the bicycle exceeds the max load of most commercially available stands, which may cause the stand to break or bend
Instead, we recommend that a Click Stand is used, details of which can be found at www.click-stand.com. These are essentially a prop that your bike leans on, which does not become a part of your bike but rather a small, lightweight accessory carried as part of your luggage. Alternatively, you can adapt a fishing rod prop (available from your local fishing shop) to achieve the same result. Of course, you could find a convenient tree, fence or wall to prop your bike against (using your saddle), or even simply, gently lay your bike down on the ground!

[Title changed and topic made sticky for reference. - Dan.]

[il padrone]

I have been using a Pletscher Multizoom rear-stay stand for the past seven and a half years on my Thorn Nomad MkII with no ill effects.

[Mike Ayling]

I have been using a Pletscher Multizoom rear-stay stand for the past seven and a half years on my Thorn Nomad MkII with no ill effects.

There goes your warranty, Pete!

Mike

[jags]

which is more important your warranty or doing what the wife tells you to do, i know what i'd do

anto.

[il padrone]

There goes your warranty, Pete!

1. The bike (frame-only purchase) is seven years old now. Not sure about the time-span of the warranty.

2. The exception for kickstands is ONLY if the damage was caused by the fitting or use of a kickstand. If the frame fails or has faults in other regards the warranty still applies.

3. Regardless, I am not too bothered 

[Manuel]

Just add to this, I live in Germany where there are about ten times as many bikes as in the UK, used about 10 times as often, for shopping, touring and daily commuting and travel. So the German market has considerably more experience of most things bike.

Almost ALL bikes are fitted with chainstay fitted kickstands, and are frequently used with heavy luggage. I have asked all my friends whether any of them have suffered damaged frames from the use of their kickstands over the years, and none have. I have now asked at seven different bike shops whether they have seen frames damaged in that way; so far none have. None, zero. This includes thin frames, cheap aluminium frames, as well as stronger city bikes. Thorn claim that their frames are heat-hardened steel of the best quality. Nomads even have 19mm 969 chainstays! Now, I am not saying that it is impossible to damage a frame either by over-tightening bolts or by putting too much weight on the kickstand side of the bike, of course it is possible. But it seems that with a modicum of German common sense millions of daily kickstand users have few problems.

I typically use a kickstand, and so far, over 40 years of using them on quality bicycles, three kickstands have broken either from years of use or by using them to take the weight of the bike while I spin the rear wheel (not recommended). I have never damaged the chainstay. So it might just be possible that Thorn's reaction to the kickstand by be somewhat over-reactive.

[mickeg]

I installed chainstay mounted kickstands on both my Sherpa and Nomad before I was aware of the Thorn policy.  But I would have installed them anyway and taken the risk.  The paint on my Nomad is no longer glossy under the plastic fitting that is between the kickstand and the frame, over time dirt got in there and abraded the paint a bit.

People have crushed chainstays on Surlys if they install a kickstand just aft of the bottom bracket shell. 

A few months ago Thorn came out with a new way to mount kickstands on some Thorns.  More at this thread on that fitting.
http://thorncyclesforum.co.uk/index.php?topic=13348.0

A photo of the bracket used for my chainstay mounted kickstand on my Nomad.

[Matt2matt2002]

Hi Mick
I put a stand on the chainstay of my Raven in exactly the spot you have it on your Nomad.
I now have a small rust spot on the lower chainstay.
I guess grit got under something.
I have since remove  the prop. But do miss it.
I think for my next tour I'll bodge a " Click stand" from a stick. Double up as a dig deterrent.

[TerryField]

Google click-stand.com
 They are American, slightly pricy for what they are, but they work brilliantly on a heavily
laden bike.

I have used one for several years

Terry

[Mike Ayling]

The Clickstand is a little fiddly to use but certainly does the job!

Mike

[energyman]

A "little fiddly" is an understatement.
I have both kickstands which are brilliant and a "click stand" which is also brilliant but definitely fiddly.

[mickeg]

I made something like a Clickstand from a tent pole to use on my Titanium bike, I did not want to risk damaging the frame with a kickstand mount.  I find I take a lot more photos when I have a bike with a real kickstand than I do when I use a Clickstand like thing instead, but it is much better than nothing.

That said, it is fantastic to have something like my Clickstand like thingy when touring and I want to stop and dig something out of a pannier.

[Andre Jute]

There is a proper way to fit a chainstay-mounted bicycle stand and ESGE/Pletscher sells a stand specifically to fit it; when correctly fitted with the half-round spacer, supplied with it, inserted, it doesn't fit around the chainstay. Correct fitting consists of a tab welded or brazed to the chain stay near the rear end of the bike (what's commonly called the dropout) or to the axle hanger if it is fancy, or even integrated with Rohloff's proprietary sliding axle hanger (which would only require two holes drilled and tapped into it), with the non-driveside chainstay strengthened by butting if need be and/or a triangulation bar or plate fitted between the chain- and seat-stay just forward of the tab. The tab is drilled and tapped (if you don't know this in advance, it is an invitation to break the machine screws holding the stand on by over-torquing -- I've replaced mine with longer high tensile bolts and stainless nyloc nuts on the back of the tab) and the whole stand assembly on the German bike I'm using to illustrate this is rated at more than the 170kg that the whole bike is very conservatively rated for by the factory.

You can see a photo of the stand fittings on a bicycle that uses three of the four methods of stand-proofing the bike several pages from the top at http://coolmainpress.com/AndreJute'sUtopiaKranich.pdf
The tab for the stand is part of the rear end in which the Rohloff axle hanger slides, the chainstay is butted on the inside, and there is a further triangulating stay (the drillium half moon) that binds together the chainstay, the "mixte" rail which goes all the way to the head tube with triangulations along the way (so transferring part of that load to the drive side when the bike is stationary on the stand), and the seat stay, and further provides stabilizing resistance to disc brake forces (I like Magura rim hydraulics instead). I have one of these bikes, and in ten years of carrying my 215 pounds plus my heavy painting gear and often a couple of cases of wine over rough roads I have neither heard nor seen any sign of stress in the rear triangle(s) of the bike -- and these internally butted tubes are custom drawn (by Columbus, who used to make Ferrari chasses) to be very light indeed for a touring bike.

Incidentally, the makers of this particular bike that I use as an illustration offer a convoluted metaphysic -- in German, of course! -- for their bias against centrally mounted stands (not to mention total cancellation of your warranty if you ignore their warning). Between them and Thorn's revulsion at chain stay-mounted kickstands, they have their backsides well covered! They're not the only ones either: a prohibition against bicycle stands is almost standard issue with designers of desirable low-volume bicycles.

But every designer has some kind of bias or prejudice or bee in his bonnet: that's why they started designing bikes in the first place, because they thought their preferences weren't being served by existing bikes created by other designers. For the thoughtful and informed bike-shopper, no designer is a perfect match, but you can certainly find a designer who is a 99% or 98% match, and that should be good enough.

[il padrone]

....I typically use a kickstand, and so far, over 40 years of using them on quality bicycles, three kickstands have broken either from years of use or by using them to take the weight of the bike while I spin the rear wheel (not recommended). I have never damaged the chainstay. So it might just be possible that Thorn's reaction to the kickstand by be somewhat over-reactive.

Manuel, I can only agree with you on this. In the old days (the ‘70s man!) the BB-mounted side stands were crappy and supported a loaded bicycle very poorly. At the time, the road bike culture of the new 10-speeds regarded kickstands as daggy. But in utility and touring uses they are very functional

I can recommend the Pletscher Multizoom, the Greenfield rear-stay mount, or for a centre-mount, the Ursus Jumbo is exceptionally good, if heavy.

https://ursuscycling.com/collections/ursus-kickstands

Cheers, Pete