War wounds

[Matt2matt2002]

I can't believe it's 10 months since I returned from my tour of Tajikistan and Kyrgystan.
Time sure flies when you ride a Thorn. Perhaps even more so when you ride a Raven?

The trip was fantastic but the bike did take a bashing. I guess they are built for that kind of ride but the paint work can suffer.
Most of the scuffs ( no dents ) were done when loading the bike onto cars for rides.
Serves me right for not keeping both wheels on the road at all times!

I have never done any restorative paintwork jobs on my bike so please pitch in with suggestions and advice.

I'm due in Sri Lanka in July so would like to arrive with a brand new looking Raven.

Matt




This one looks nasty - not rust though.



Yes - I had a bike stand attached. Not any more.....



Scuffs mostly. Rear frame stay



Fork - under the headset.

[Andre Jute]

Honourable scars.

Shoulda stripped it down and had it powdercoated (or enamelled and baked! or hot nickel sprayed and polished!) in the winter. Now your bike will be off the road just when the summer is about to return.

Perhaps, since the new paintjob will also be wrecked in your new adventure, you should just lightly sandpaper off the scars and paint them with clear lacquer to keep the base metal safe, and have a thorough job done when you return.

[geocycle]

Honourable scars indeed! If it were me I'd simply put in a blob of undercoat and then some gloss black enamel with a tiny brush to protect the frame from any rust. I'm sure there are way more elaborate ways that we will soon learn about!

[Bill C]

Honourable scars indeed! If it were me I'd simply put in a blob of undercoat and then some gloss black enamel with a tiny brush to protect the frame from any rust

i'd treat the rust (as i can see rust in each pic except the head tube) before you go painting it or your not achieving much by slapping paint on
no point in writing in more detail how I'd do it as i'd use an airbrush and aim for a smart repair rather than a paint brush and just daub it on
kill that rust first how ever you paint/repair it

[Danneaux]

Hi Matt!

With your next departure looming, I have to agree with my colleagues above and recommend you treat the bare metal with a conversion coating to stop any rust -- Ospho is a good one among many -- and then touch-up the nicks with clear nail varnish. The one problem with powdercoat finishes is they don't always bond to the base metal at the molecular level in the same way paint can. If a break happens and then rust develops, it can "tunnel" between the steel and the powdercoat, causing a surprising amount of damage before it becomes visible. For this reason, it is helpful to stop any rust as soon as possible and to protect the exposed metal with something like nail varnish, which is readily available, surprisingly durable, and if clear at least looks no worse than the scratches.

Unfortunately, scratches and scuffs seem part and parcel for an expedition bike and these acquired flaws are indeed badges of travel and Adventure. It is one reason why I chose my Nomad in matte black -- I can even touch it up with stove paint and it will look essentially "new". I can't say the same for three of my bikes, which have five-stages of paint over fully chromed frames. Nicks on those really can't be touched up with anything approaching invisibility. I think to touch up your paint to perfection now will be an exercise in futility with another trip in the works. I'd wait till you return from that before doing anything more comprehensive. You may at some point wish to have a complete respray done, but it will be subject to the same trials and tribulations of travel -- it happens when Adventuring.

The topic of paint touch-ups and addressing surface rust has come up periodically on the Forum. The upgrade to new software and a new domain has broken some of the links, but I have gone through the archives and sieved out some you and others may find helpful, and changed the internal link references so they display properly. Here they are:

http://thorncyclesforum.co.uk/index.php?topic=5665.msg32189#msg32189
http://thorncyclesforum.co.uk/index.php?topic=4961.msg25553#msg25553
http://thorncyclesforum.co.uk/index.php?topic=8591.msg58177#msg58177
http://thorncyclesforum.co.uk/index.php?topic=3895.0
http://thorncyclesforum.co.uk/index.php?topic=3864.msg16831#msg16831
http://thorncyclesforum.co.uk/index.php?topic=4819.msg24327#msg24327

All the best,

Dan.

[mickeg]

An expedition bike is supposed to have a few dings and scrapes.  It also makes it a little more theft proofed if it is not pristine looking.

I usually have more chafing problems with black racks than with frames, I use black nail polish for touching up my racks.  The small size of the bottle with built in brush is the most convenient way to do it.

The matt finish of the black Thorns howver might be hard to match, I think anything you buy may be glossy.  But if it was me, where you have bare metal I would just use a tiny bit of glossy nail polish over it.  If rusty, of course sand that down first.  I am not a skilled painter and do not have the patience to do a great job, thus I would sand the rust a bit but would probably leave some of the rust in place while I dabbed on the nail polish.  And, do it outside in case you drip.

I was lucky enough to find some yellow nail polish that almost perfectly matches my Nomad yellow paint.

When I was in college, a friend of mine had a new white Peugeot bike.  And one day I saw it had some black primer paint on the lug work on the head tube, and I asked what happened to his beautiful new bike.  He said, after you have three bikes stolen in two years, you worry less about the looks.  He bought a can of spray paint and tried to make his bike look ugly as a theft proofing measure.  I am not saying you should make your bike look worse than it is, but that is one reason that I am not very careful in how I do my paint touching up.

I attached a photo of my Bridgestone that I bought several years ago, used, I paid $5 USD for it.  Took a couple days and about $75 USD to make it functional, but it now is a great errand bike.  But, I chose to not even touch up the nicks in the paint on it.  Note the handlebars and stem are also pure rust.

[Bill C]

If rusty, of course sand that down first.  I am not a skilled painter and do not have the patience to do a great job, thus I would sand the rust a bit but would probably leave some of the rust in place while I dabbed on the nail polish.

all it takes to kill rust is some phosphoric acid, why leave any rust at all ?as it will only promote more rust
£5.24 for 250ml and it would last you a life time you can even clean up/passivate all your stainless nuts and bolts, clean your toilet/descale your kettle, big fan of the stuff
seems pointless not doing it properly, there's been a few posts on here of frames that have rotted out due to pi55 poor maintenance (then blamed on the thorn  paint work ) irc one was an xtc where a pic showed an allen key through a hole in the seat tube i think the other was a tandem

i used my last up earlier cleaning two pairs of Thorn forks that i primed straight after, and a diy compressor i'm building, didn't have enough to finish the compressor , i'll post some pics of before and after phosphoric acid rust killer

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/PH-DOWN-PHOSPHORIC-ACID-250ML-1L-5-LITRE-MAX-STRENGTH-81-/231790624259?var=&hash=item35f7cc3e03:m:mqM73LRPafJQtxENJsmBOng

google phosphoric acid as a  rust killer if you doubt me

[Danneaux]

google phosphoric acid as a  rust killer if you doubt me

Yep!    OSPHO (http://www.ospho.com/ ) is a balanced formula of Phosphoric acid, Sodium Dichromate, surfactants, and extenders.

I use it to prepare all steel surfaces -- including clean steel -- before any painting. Paint sticks a lot better to a micro-etched surface and you get a longer-lasting result.

A quick wipe with phosphoric acid, and you're good to go. Just be sure to use a wire brush to remove any loose or flaking rust first.

All the best,

Dan.

[John Saxby]

Bags of authenticity for sure, Matt -- your Raven fairly shouts out, "Been there, done that, and then some."

The advice above pretty much covers the waterfront -- the response from Forum readers & contributors is always so rich!

A couple of additional notes on what's been said, drawn on my more limited experience, mainly in restoring a very rusty old ex-comp AJS scrambler:

1)     Where you have patches of rust like the one on the chainstay (from the kickstand), I'd suggest scraping and/or sanding the edges of the paint away, to see if the rust has gone beyond what's visible.

2)     As a rust remover, I've found this product to be effective, and much easier to work with than acids: 
http://evaporust.ca/   Evapo-Rust is made in the USA, and is sold here in Canada, but I dunno if one can get it in the UK.  (Dan, do you know about it?) 

3)     There is one obvious "but" for your use, however:  This stuff works best if you immerse the part(s) in the liquid.  I've found that it does work if liberally applied with a brush.

        I can't find a list of ingredients, either. (Patent-related issue?) The website has information on its toxic qualities and safety procedures, as well as a comparison between Evapo-Rust and other rust removers.

Good luck in any case, and enjoy your prep for Sri Lanka!

[Matt2matt2002]

I am truly touched by the advice offered.
I will pursue all options.

I really do love my Raven and hate to see it marked.
But I guess going wild, flying and taking it off grid, will take its toll.
Battle scars, war wounds? Yes. Indeed.
She was built for these kind of rides and treatment.

But I need to show it the respect she deserves.
Never let me down. Been there at my lowest.
What more could I ask for?
I think there was a bond formed when on the Pamir Highway.
Nothing but us both, north or south for hundreds of miles.

Thanks again folks.

[Danneaux]

(Dan, do you know about it?)

<nods> I do indeed, John; marvelous stuff with results akin to alchemy when I used it on old Airstream trailer/caravan Lockheed brake parts produced in the late 1950s.

Like you, I found best results came with immersion (second revelation: The stuff is reusable!!!). I found it a bit difficult to use on small areas and tubes because of the runoff problem, but had some success by using child's modeling putty to make little containment dams 'round it to keep it in contact for at least several hours. A soaked rag could well do it.

MSDS lists it primarily as a chelator/detergent with very low skin toxicity. A lot of online speculation indicates the active ingredient *might be* ethylenediamine, but nothing in the MSDS supports that.

A good suggestion for sure, and certainly less toxic than phosphoric acid. I do prefer acids for pre-painted surface etching, but they do require gloves and ventilation and present a disposal problem.

All the best,

Dan.

[Bill C]

 and certainly less toxic than phosphoric acid. I do prefer acids for pre-painted surface etching, but they do require gloves and ventilation and present a disposal problem.

All the best,

Dan.

no disposal or toxicity problems with the phosphoric acid i linked to as it is food grade pure, just wash it  down with  plenty of clean water and it will decompose into phosphorous (plants love it)
i have used other stuff with go faster additives (brand name rust killer) but didn't notice much difference except price
if you want it thicker you can add a bit of wallpaper paste
I wouldn't of recommend cleaning out a kettle with anything but food grade acid

[John Saxby]

Thanks, Bill, that's useful info too.

[geocycle]

A number of folk have suggested nail varnish rather than enamel paint or car touch up paint.  What is the advantage? 

[mickeg]

I use nail polish because (1) I needed to touch up paint on a Surly and Surly suggested nail polish because of the wide range of colors and (2) I often am in a store where it is sold and only rarely am in a store with car paint.  Since the nail polish bottles are small, cheap, and have a  brush built in, they were very convenient.

For me the convenience is the key since if I can do the touch up on chaffed racks or frames in only a few minutes, I am more likely to do it in a timely fashion.