Rohloff handlebar solutions?

[daviddd55]

......the product of an Ex I'm afraid - and anyway I've sold the house now!

[PtP]

Just a follow up question from Munroad's comment.  Has anyone got on info on the three part Thorn special rohloff drop handlebars? I'm seriously looking at the Thorn Raven City Slicker, but feel that I really need to have drop bars with it.  Any info like weight, comfort would be appreciated.

[freddered]

don't cut the top of the stem off, it's too useful (see my previous post)

[daviddd55]

how d'ye mean Freddered? Accessory bar posting....?

[freddered]

1) Accessory bar for bits and bobs.  A bar bag will take up space on bars.

2) On a long tour it's nice to have the option to raise the bars a bit.

http://i170.photobucket.com/albums/u249/freddered/RavenFlatsGPS.jpg

[PH]

I've made a few changes to the cockpit of my Raven.  SJS Ergo bar ends, Ergon grips and Magura hydraulic brakes.  First impressions are very favourable, I'll do a proper review and some photos when I've done a few more miles.

[martinf]

I'm planning to buy a Nomad to replace the old steel mountain bike I used on my last tour. I'm fairly sure the Nomad frame design and Thorn racks will be right for my intended use and totally sold on the Rohloff hub - biggest nuisance on the current bike is keeping the derailleurs gears clean.

But I'm not yet completely sure about the handlebar setup. Before my tour I modified my old bike with the widest drop bars I could find, adding auxiliary brake levers on the tops.

Like a lot of drop bar users, I was on the hoods most of the time. I used the tops on off-road stretches, in busy traffic in towns and sometimes just for a change. I also used the low position on the "hooks" of the drops for maybe 10-20 % of the time to get a more aerodynamic position, either on long flat stretches on good road surfaces or when struggling against headwinds. 

Thorn strongly advises using  flat bars instead of drops. For me they suggested their Flat Track bar with Ergon grips and bar-ends, with a longer stem than I use for drops. I reckon the main position on flat bars will be somewhere between my drop-bar "hood" and "tops" position, with hands much further apart and further forward than my drop-bar "tops" position. I will probably also set the flat bars slightly lower than the drops - I had the tops of the drops roughly the same height as the saddle. This main position with flat bars and Ergon grips should be much more suitable for the off-road stretches than my old setup.

The part I am least sure about is how to replace the "hooks" position. There are a lot of different bar-ends and extensions available. On a commuter bike with flat bars I have "ski-bend" type extensions, fitted inboard from the brake levers, position rather like daviddd55's photo:

.

These give a nice aerodynamic position, but I feel they are too close together. That doesn't matter too much on the commuter bike as it isn't used for long distances. If I put the "ski-bends" outboard from the brake levers they feel too far apart. 

I was wondering if these would be good:

http://www.sjscycles.co.uk/ergon-ergon-gp5-handlebar-grips-standard-prod28217/

Anybody used them?

The forward position looks as if it is roughly the same width as the main position, so should feel right if I get the main position right. And they have the advantage of the intermediate position, which involves turning the wrists through about 90°, a bit like with the SJS Ergo Control Bar ends:

http://www.sjscycles.co.uk/sjsc-ergo-control-bar-end-grip-black-prod13134/

As I want to get the frame size right (different for drops and flat bars), I have bought a Flat Track bar and fitted it to my old bike to experiment with flat bar positions before ordering my Thorn.

[Danneaux]

...I modified my old bike with the widest drop bars I could find, adding auxiliary brake levers on the tops.

Like a lot of drop bar users, I was on the hoods most of the time. I used the tops on off-road stretches, in busy traffic in towns and sometimes just for a change. I also used the low position on the "hooks" of the drops for maybe 10-20 % of the time to get a more aerodynamic position, either on long flat stretches on good road surfaces or when struggling against headwinds.  

Martin, you've described my setup on Sherpa to a "T" (see: http://www.thorncycles.co.uk/forums/index.php?topic=3896.0 ).

I'm afraid I cannot offer any useful suggestions wrt straight 'bars and extensions/bar-ends, but I can offer the data point that wide drop handlebars for heavy touring have worked well for me, and continue to do so on Sherpa. They're an equal but not superior solution, and if they work for a person, drop handlebars are still a viable solution. I would miss having the hooks as an option as they allow me to "ride inside my elbows" when dropped low into a strong headwind, as when I toured along The Netherlands' North Sea coast or in the regular 40+mph/64kph afternoon headwinds of America's Great Basin.

Thorn strongly advises using  flat bars instead of drops.

Yes, I know...and a look at photos of most current world/expedition touring bikes validates this recommendation; drop handlebars have become less popular with the general touring public over time.

My big problem with straight handlebars is my wrists and shoulders protest mightily unless my palms face each other when riding. This could be readily addressed with bar-ends as you have planned, and I think your reasoning and methodology are really sound in searching for an alternative to drops.

Have you considered the various clamp-on "drop/bar-end" combos one sees on the market? I'm pressed for time due to a dentist appointment, but when I return, I'll be happy to post a link to the one I have in mind.

I hope this helps in some way as an additional data point to ponder. It sure looks like you're on the right track, and I hope you find the ideal solution for you!

Best,

Dan.

[martinf]

Martin, you've described my setup on Sherpa to a "T" (see: http://www.thorncycles.co.uk/forums/index.php?topic=3896.0 ).

Yes. Looks very similar. I got used to the auxiliary brake levers very quickly, to the extent I found myself reaching for non-existant levers on the other two drop handlebar bikes I own!

I'm afraid I cannot offer any useful suggestions wrt straight 'bars and extensions/bar-ends, but I can offer the data point that wide drop handlebars for heavy touring have worked well for me, and continue to do so on Sherpa. They're an equal but not superior solution, and if they work for a person, drop handlebars are still a viable solution. I would miss having the hooks as an option as they allow me to "ride inside my elbows" when dropped low into a strong headwind, as when I toured along The Netherlands' North Sea coast or in the regular 40+mph/64kph afternoon headwinds of America's Great Basin.Yes, I know...and a look at photos of most current world/expedition touring bikes validates this recommendation; drop handlebars have become less popular with the general touring public over time.

Drops worked well for me on my last tour, but (like straight handlebars) they have their drawbacks, notably on the off-road sections. One of my reasons for wanting a Thorn Nomad is to do a bit more off-road.

My big problem with straight handlebars is my wrists and shoulders protest mightily unless my palms face each other when riding. This could be readily addressed with bar-ends as you have planned, and I think your reasoning and methodology are really sound in searching for an alternative to drops.

I don't have this problem. I quite often do long all-day rides on a Bromptons. First of all I had the M-bar set up. This is a bit like Thorn Comfort bars, but straighter. Ergon grips helped with hand comfort, and I added short bar-ends later (long ones would interfere with folding), which helped a little with the headwind issue.

When Brompton introduced their new P-bar I changed to this. The P-bar is an unusual design with a fairly high straight position, and another more or less straight position several centimetres lower and more or less vertically below, sort of like a butterfly bar tilted through 90 degrees. I get on OK with this setup, the low position is lower than I would really like but is a boon to morale in headwinds - I typically use it 10 to 20 % of the time.

Have you considered the various clamp-on "drop/bar-end" combos one sees on the market? I'm pressed for time due to a dentist appointment, but when I return, I'll be happy to post a link to the one I have in mind.

My own take on the clamp-on "drop/bar-end" combos is that if I go down this road I might as well use genuine drops! The latest offering from Thorn (described in the thread "Gilles Berthoud Drop bar rohloff changer and thorn rohloff changer drop bars") looks like a neat solution to the issue of combining Rohloff shifter and drops.

I intend playing with various flatbar/bar end combinations for several weeks/months on my old mountain bike/tourer - if I don't find what I think is a good compromise I shall simply go against Thorn's recommendation and ask for drops.

[martinf]

Update on my handlebar trials.

I've done about a thousand kms of trials with two different styles of flat bars and various bar-end types and positions.

Flat bars and long bar-ends worked well for me on short rides. They had little effect on my average speed, and I find them better than drops for off road. But on rides longer than 2-3 hours I started getting numbness in my left hand. I damaged my left thumb in the early '90s when doing house repairs, this may be why only my left hand is affected.

I don't get this numbness on long rides with drop bars, probably because of the different hand orientation when riding on the hoods (which is most of the time).

Oddly, I don't get the problem when doing long rides with my P-bar Brompton. I think that may be due to the flexibility of the P-bars combined with the damping effect of the Brompton's titanium forks.

So I shall be going for drop bars on my new Thorn. This means a shorter stem and different frame. Andy Blance advised going for a New Raven rather than a Nomad, as he thought it would be more suitable for drop bars and would be sufficient to cope with my touring loads, so long as I took care on off-road stretches.

Andy also confirmed my suspicion that the Berthoud shifter on the tops would probably interfere with proper operation of auxiliary bar top levers.

So for the shifter, I will probably be going with a standard Rohloff shifter. At present I rather like the idea of bar-end position on a Hubbub adapter, but Andy warned me that he considered this setup uncomfortable for prolonged use. So I have put a Nexus 8 gripshift shifter in the bar-end position on drop handlebars on my trial bike to see how I get on with it.

If it doesn't work out for me I will probably go for the extension bar solution, either under or over the handlebars.

[Danneaux]

Hi Martin!

Thanks for the update on your trials, and congratulations on the new Thorn in the offing -- my, how exciting! Looking forward to hearing all about it and seeing photos, as well.

Andy also confirmed my suspicion that the Berthoud shifter on the tops would probably interfere with proper operation of auxiliary bar top levers.

Yes, this was a factor that helped decide me against the Berthoud shifter as well. Andy helpfully suggested an auxiliary brake lever could still be used on the other side, but I have found myself using both auxiliary brakes...when I use them. That is typically on steep downhills, as a way to move my weight back over the saddle.

I have also heard from a number of sources the Berthoud shifter is not so very well sealed against weather and dirt one could expect to encounter on extended tours. Also, it seemed to me it might well become very cold or hot to the touch, depending on weather. The rubber-covered plastic Rohloff appears to avoid these pitfalls.

I have put a Nexus 8 gripshift shifter in the bar-end position on drop handlebars on my trial bike to see how I get on with it.

I'm very much looking forward to hearing how this works for you, Martin. Trying to decide on the best location for the Rohloff shifter with drop handlebars was a major concern for me, and it has worked out wonderfully with the latest setup. I wish you equal success, no matter which location you choose.

All the best,

Dan.

[martinf]

Andy helpfully suggested an auxiliary brake lever could still be used on the other side, but I have found myself using both auxiliary brakes...when I use them. That is typically on steep downhills, as a way to move my weight back over the saddle.

I thought of just having the left-hand brake, which is the front brake for me and therefore the most powerful. But decided against it.

Two of my main uses of the tops position are in towns, where the upright position helps me see over the tops of cars better, and going down some steep hills when it isn't possible to just let the bike roll fast and use the low position on the drops. On twisty descents being more upright helps air-braking. I'd rather have easy access to both brakes in these scenarios.

[Danneaux]

Hi Martin!

Your use, requirements, and riding style sound very similar to mine. If you would like any specific photos or measurements from my setup to aid in your decision, just let me know and I will be happy to provide them to you.  I understand your concern about making the "right" decision for yourself, and researched my choices just as carefully; it really pays in the end.

All the best,

Dan.

[NZPeterG]

Here is the Best Handlebars I have find to run with Rohloff shifter 

Pete....
 

[Matt2matt2002]

Nice looking bars.
What make please?
Also, your front fender / mudguard?
Also, can you fit a bar bag onto the bars?
Thanks