Author Topic: New Raven build -- advice sought  (Read 119872 times)

djd828

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Re: New Raven build -- advice sought
« Reply #180 on: January 21, 2016, 04:22:47 PM »
Thanks John....just dropped off the parts at the LBS this morning and let them know about the fenders and a few other items I want to ensure are handled correctly.  They are very detailed oriented so I am keeping my fingers crossed that it all turns out well.

Dave

mickeg

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Re: New Raven build -- advice sought
« Reply #181 on: January 21, 2016, 04:27:48 PM »
On my Nomad and on my Sherpa, I used one bolt, not two.

On my Sherpa, I sometimes use the largest tires that will fit.  And the fork crown is the limiting factor for my Sherpa, other parts of the frame offer more clearance.  Thus, I did not want any spacers under my fork crown, but I have a washer in between the fender and fork crown.  The fender touched the painted underside of the fork crown, so I put PVC electrical tape over the paint where the fender touched it to prevent the fender from chaffing through the paint.

On my Nomad I used a plastic spacer that I cut to fit for length.  I painted the spacer with some yellow nail polish that is a reasonable match to the paint.  I think the spacer was sold as a nylon bushing in the hardware store.

If your frame had any plastic protectors over the brake cantilever posts, you could bring one of those to stores to shop for color match in fingernail polish.

djd828

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Re: New Raven build -- advice sought
« Reply #182 on: January 28, 2016, 12:07:50 AM »
Sneak Peek and one more request for advice--

My LBS completed the majority of the build today and I will be riding the Raven over the weekend to see what needs tweaked.  I attached a couple of photos as a sneak peek....I will attach more when it is completely done.  You will notice that the stem is fairly high on the uncut steerer......I will probably drop that a couple inches. 

The biggest issue my LBS had was with mounting the front fender....because it will extend so far in the front (a little beyond the red arrow in the picture), they believe it will rattle around too much.  They discussed possibly cutting it shorter or, best case scenario, finding a way to attach it on each side of the front rack loop area that extends over the tire.  I could get a second fender stay but we don't have anywhere to mount it on the fork with the rack in the way.  Anyone have any idea of how to secure it better than using just one stay and screwing it to the daruma under the fork?  Is this really an issue?

Thanks again everyone for working with me through this process.  I think the end result is excellent and I look forward to getting the fender issue sorted and many more pics posted next week.  Have a great evening.

Dave
« Last Edit: January 28, 2016, 12:34:30 AM by djd828 »

Danneaux

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Re: New Raven build -- advice sought
« Reply #183 on: January 28, 2016, 02:12:57 AM »
Hi Dave!

All congratulations on seeing your lovely machine so far along.

If the leading edge of the fender does extend as far as your red arrow, then I would share your bike shop's concerns about so much of the extension hanging free. The most likely point for fracture initiation and propagation would be at the Daruma hole -- provided the flopping end did not first touch the sides of the tire. I do think it should be secured.

As you will have seen from my own "Danneaux's Nomad" gallery, I repurposed a rear fender (mudguard) for greater coverage as a front fender and used a spare bridge and stays to secure it to the front rack itself.

In your application, I would use a vinyl or rubber-coated stainless steel "P-clip" wrapped around the rack hoop, then bolt the P-clip to the leading edge of the fender. You might need to use a short steel extension to bridge any small gap. This should secure it properly and minimize any chance for fracture.

It is nice to see your new bike looking so good and very close to complete. I really think the fender issue can be resolved most quickly and easily through use of a P-clip...perhaps with the aid of a short metal extension.

All the best,

Dan.
« Last Edit: January 28, 2016, 02:17:46 AM by Danneaux »

John Saxby

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Re: New Raven build -- advice sought
« Reply #184 on: January 28, 2016, 03:04:53 AM »
Very nice looking bike, Dave! The red and silver really looks the business.

A thought on the front fender question, along the same lines as Dan's: 

>     I have a slightly different front rack (Arkel low-rider), which also has a front bracing loop, although mine is much more vertical than yours. 

>     I thought about adding a fender stay to my 52 mm VO Zeppelins just aft of my rack bracing loop, and more-or-less vertical to the ground.  My idea was to use just one fixing bolt between the stay and the fender, at the very top. Then, I could attach the small fender-stay P-clamps onto the lower mounting bolts for the rack, where they bolt into the threaded bosses on the Raven's forks just above the dropouts.

>     In the end, I decided not to do it -- the extra stay isn't really necessary, as the front part of the fender is fairly well fixed in place.  The additional fender stay would have made the front end a little more "busy" visually.

>     You might be able to do something similar on your bike, so that you'd have a vertical fender stay aft of your forward-canted brace. This would provide extra support for your fender. It would also make the front end more "busy", but if onlookers don't like it, well, they can adjust their expectations, no? (If you don't like it, that may be more complicated...)

>     A third option, beyond Dan's, might be to, ah, cut your superb Honjo fenders. Sorry to even think such a thing, but it probably should be tabled, even if it's not a real option. 
« Last Edit: January 28, 2016, 03:06:35 AM by John Saxby »

djd828

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Re: New Raven build -- advice sought
« Reply #185 on: January 28, 2016, 03:21:46 AM »
Dan and John, thanks much.  John, your option 3 did cross my mind at the bike shop today but my LBS wasn't keen on the idea....and I wasn't too.  I will have to see the fender in place again...I kept it at the LBS.  I wish I would have brought it home with me so I could more easily visualize my options.

I am leaning towards just installing it like you and see if I encounter any trouble.  I did a Google search tonight and saw many bikes setup with metal front fenders with just one stay and the daruma connection (see attached).  I will ride it this weekend to get a better feel for the fit and then work with the LBS on the fender decision early next week. 

[Photo edit by Dan]
« Last Edit: January 28, 2016, 03:26:30 PM by Danneaux »

martinf

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Re: New Raven build -- advice sought
« Reply #186 on: January 28, 2016, 05:46:43 AM »
On my 2 Thorns, I have extra long front plastic mudguards like Dan, with the same extra stay arrangement which fits nicely to the Thorn low-loader rack.

On one present bike and a few previous family bkes I have or have had  metal mudguards that extend forwards slightly less. Stainless steel, not alu, as was fairly common here in France 20 to 30 years ago.

I found a long front mudguard would touch the tyre if not secured, generally when riding on off-road paths, so I always secured the front end, generally to a platform type front rack, or with extra stays on the bikes without front racks.   

djd828

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Re: New Raven build -- advice sought
« Reply #187 on: January 28, 2016, 09:38:55 AM »
Thanks Martin,

I do like the idea of a small secondary platform rack, I know that Nitto seems to offer many styles.  The issue is finding one that works with the Thorn fork.  The solution below is ideal but it just wouldn't be compatible with the Thorn.

Dave

[Photo edit by Dan]
« Last Edit: January 28, 2016, 03:30:45 PM by Danneaux »

jags

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Re: New Raven build -- advice sought
« Reply #188 on: January 28, 2016, 11:19:28 AM »
Dan and John, thanks much.  John, your option 3 did cross my mind at the bike shop today but my LBS wasn't keen on the idea....and I wasn't too.  I will have to see the fender in place again...I kept it at the LBS.  I wish I would have brought it home with me so I could more easily visualize my options.

I am leaning towards just installing it like you and see if I encounter any trouble.  I did a Google search tonight and saw many bikes setup with metal front fenders with just one stay and the daruma connection (see attached).  I will ride it this weekend to get a better feel for the fit and then work with the LBS on the fender decision early next week.
[/quotWHAT  you can't go posting photos of none thorn bikes shame on you  ;D ;D :o

djd828

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Re: New Raven build -- advice sought
« Reply #189 on: January 28, 2016, 12:11:28 PM »
Jags, I will admit that I was a bit guilty posting those photos but I didn't have an adequate way to explain in words what I was trying to convey.  Being a new Thorn owner I was hoping I would be granted a bit of latitude.  That said, I want to make sure I adhere to forum rules and would not be upset if Dan removed them.  BTW, I have been scouring the Internet for an eloquent way to deal with the front fender and the P clamp seems to be the best method.  I don't mind buying a second stay like John mentioned but I have to check where I could connect it to on the fork or rack.  I really do like the idea of mounting a small platform rack, like a Nitto, but I can't seem to locate one that will work. The Nitto M18 seems like one that would work but it seems to be the only Nitto missing a mounting point for the fender ( I won't post a picture of it on a bike ;) ).

Dave

[All fixed. -- Dan  :) ]
« Last Edit: January 28, 2016, 03:31:38 PM by Danneaux »

mickeg

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Re: New Raven build -- advice sought
« Reply #190 on: January 28, 2016, 03:41:41 PM »
Some people have bought a rear fender to mount on the front to get the back part lower instead of relying on a mud flap.  If your front fender is that long, you could mount it further back, that would give you less fender up front where it does not do any good and more fender in back where it does.

If your fenders are silver metal, that would likely leave an unsightly hole where the existing bracket is removed from, but covering that hole somehow would obviously be an option, I just do not know the best way to do that.

The best example I can think of is how Jan Heine set up his rando bike.  Note how low his front fender is.  But you don't want to roll off any curbs that way.
https://janheine.wordpress.com/2013/03/04/getting-your-bike-ready-for-randonneuring/

mickeg

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Re: New Raven build -- advice sought
« Reply #191 on: January 28, 2016, 03:51:23 PM »
Most people with the Brooks B17 have it level or the front slightly up.  So, when you start doing your test rides, keep a wrench in your pocket to make adjustments as you go.  I put some electrical tape around my seatpost about a quarter inch up off the frame so I can see a small gap there.  If the gap disappears, the seatpost slipped down.  And that tape helps me keep track of where I started if I make adjustments over time.

Note in the photo, the front rack on my Sherpa.  I have the low rider Tubus Ergo and the Nashbar small one mounted on the cantilever brake mounts.  Sunlight also makes a small rack like that but I do not like the Sunlight one as much.  The orange thing in the photo is my polartec vest on that Nashbar rack.  Unfortunately for you, the Nashbar is only available in black, not slilver.


djd828

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Re: New Raven build -- advice sought
« Reply #192 on: January 28, 2016, 03:54:14 PM »
The best example I can think of is how Jan Heine set up his rando bike.  Note how low his front fender is.  But you don't want to roll off any curbs that way.
https://janheine.wordpress.com/2013/03/04/getting-your-bike-ready-for-randonneuring/
Thanks Mick for the advice in the last 2 posts.  I bought the fenders from Jan so I am going to ask his advice as well.

Dave

John Saxby

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Re: New Raven build -- advice sought
« Reply #193 on: January 28, 2016, 04:36:23 PM »
Reckon Jan Heine would have the advice if anyone would, Dave. I recall him saying in a review or blog somewhere, that he preferred the Honjo fenders because they used two stays. This fixed them more securely.

If you're using just one stay on your fender, as i have on my Raven (below), I don't know just where the "cut-off" point (sorry-o!) might be, forward of the fork crown, nor how the width, density & curvature of the fender (hence its wiggle-and-flop factor) would be affected by the cutoff point.  FWIW, the foremost tip of my 52mm alloy fender is 28 cms from the fork crown, maybe 29 from the daruma.

If you leave the fender at its current length, I'd recommend another fixing point of some kind.

I guess that the additional obvious point in all this is that one can always cut off metal, but it's really hard to add it back later.

A note on that photo, BTW:  The lower part of the front fender is now about 10 cms shorter than it used to be.  Before I made this rainy day ride late November last year, I cut off 10 cms, because I found that, with even a trimmed leather mudflap, I kept banging the mudflap and occasionally fender on steps, curbs, and even the ground if I leaned the bike over a long way when dismounting.  In the current setup, my mudflap ends more or less where the fender used to, possibly a bit higher.  I remounted the stay as well, so that it's nearly horizontal, instead of canted upwards to the mid-fork boss as it used to be.  (Looks better to my uneducated eye.)  On that one rainy/muddy ride, I didn't notice any more rain-&-crud spraying onto my downtube/'glider/cranks/pedals/shoes than before.

Good luck with this detail, anyway.  (As you've probably found about details, it's all a bit like hiking in the hills -- "There's always one more ridge.")

jags

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Re: New Raven build -- advice sought
« Reply #194 on: January 28, 2016, 05:24:08 PM »
Dave only winding DAN up ,he cracks up when other  bikes are posted on here. ;D ;D ;D.

i see compass bikes have a new stainless  front rack out  small type looks super strong and  well made.

jags.