Ebay: Thorn EXP large-ish

[in4]

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/151798169799?_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

Not mine

[leftpoole]

Hello,
I talked to the seller and got this from him.
He is over 6ft his bike sold to him new is miles too small.
Originally fitted with drops. Owner found bars too low and saddle too low. As can be seen from photographs it is obvious the bike is too small for owner. He went to Bridgwater to be measured and this is what was sold to him.!! Thorn sells too small a bike for most people in my opinion. I went through the same originally until I specified the size I wanted! My size of bike chosen by me actually fits spot on.....Take note!
The EXP is a size 530 M (11) which suits a 5ft 6ins or so person maybe 5ft 8ish.
It is a nice bike and one I should love to own, if it were larger.
I hope this information is useful to at least one person?
Regards,
John

[Tiberius]

Thorn sell bikes that are too small for the buyer/owner....

I've heard this before....NOT on this Thorn specific forum but elsewhere.....

Strange.....

[jags]

i would take that comment with a pinch of salt,
why oh why would an expert sell you a new bike that was to small for you.
im certain sure the lads and lassies are well schooled when it comes to bike fit ,when i bough my  sherpa it was spot on .

anto.

[Tiberius]

i would take that comment with a pinch of salt,
why oh why would an expert sell you a new bike that was to small for you.
im certain sure the lads and lassies are well schooled when it comes to bike fit ,when i bough my  sherpa it was spot on .

anto.

Yeah, completely agree....I guess It's the fact that it's such an unlikely thing to happen that it stuck in my mind....

[Rockymountain]

Thorn has sold me two bikes and both have been the right size. If it were too small why didn't he take it back under the 100 day return policy?

[leftpoole]

Thorn has sold me two bikes and both have been the right size. If it were too small why didn't he take it back under the 100 day return policy?

Hello,
This bike was sold to him at least 15 years ago! He knew very little about bikes. He gradually (?) began to realise that his handlebars and saddle were much higher than people riding other bikes around him.
He is 6ft plus in height. He was measured at Thorn and told his bike when supplied would fit!
I have been told similar in the past. I reject the way Thorn used (?) to decide size for customers.
If your bikes fit then be grateful.
I have been buying using and making certain of fit since around 1995 (THORN BIKES) and I love them , but I still specify frames to build myself because I am able to. Those who do not or cannot build should make certain of correct size before having Thorn build.
As for your comment regarding 100 day return, this was years ago and a fairly naive purchaser  may have felt intimidated. However he did get many miles from the bike and enjoyed riding it, but look at the bars and saddle and work it out yourself.
Regards,
John

[leftpoole]

i would take that comment with a pinch of salt,
why oh why would an expert sell you a new bike that was to small for you.
im certain sure the lads and lassies are well schooled when it comes to bike fit ,when i bough my  sherpa it was spot on .

anto.

Ah Anto,
Thats because you are little shorty!  and Thorn tend to sell small frames with long steerers and high saddles!
John

[jags]

true enough but it doesn't really matter what size or height you are now does it 
if it's off the pegg and all thorn bikes are off the peg, there sizes are as near to perfect as possible fit wise.

[Swislon]

I have found most LBS also try to sell me a frame that is too small.
They don't seem to listen when I tell them that I don't want my bum in the air and bars 4 inches below the saddle.

Most are geared up for selling racing bikes to MAMILs.
Riders who don't want such an aggressive position have to be more assertive but that only comes with experience.
I am only 6' 2" but there are not many off the peg  frames out there that will not fit me without shed loads of spacers under the bars.

I can just about get away with my Club Tour  in the largest size but it is not as elegant as I'd like.
My RST was 561L (now sold) but in hindsight should have been the next size up and if I was buying today that's what I'd get.

In the old days you bought  a frame with only a fistful of seatpost showing so the bars could be level with the saddle.
I am believing custom is really the only way I will get what I want these days though I am eyeing up the 64cm Condor Fratello!!
Thanks John this is your fault for showing photos of yours.

Steve

[JimK]

In the old days you bought  a frame with only a fistful of seatpost showing so the bars could be level with the saddle.

It's a nice puzzle, what it means for a frame to fit a person. Seems to me that what really needs to fit is the spatial relationship between handlebars, pedals, and saddle. The pedals are stuck at a fixed position on the frame but there is a nice range of adjustment for saddles and handlebars. So then the questions become: 1) is it even possible, with a given frame, to get the saddle and handlebars in the right places for a person; 2) with saddle and handlebars adjusted to the person, do other problems arise, e.g. standover but also too much flex, what about stability or shimmy, space for luggage to be attached, etc.; 3) with saddle and handlebars adjusted, how does the bike look aesthetically or stylishly?

For sure, bikes go through fashions. I am rather old school and like the look of the horizontal top tube, but that is quite far down on my ranking of priorities!

Mostly for bike fit the key parameter of the frame is the virtual top tube. The seat tube and steering tube being parallel, the only way to move the handlebars in the perpendicular direction is by changing stem length and/or angle. But this has other consequences wrt steering etc. so it is not so ideal.

Have you all seen the workcycles "adaptive seat tube"? The seat tube is not parallel to the steering tube, so the virtual top tube grows as the seat & bars get raised. Nice idea! Henry Cutler might have a patent on this.

http://www.workcycles.com/home-products/handmade-city-bicycles/workcycles-fr8-universal-frame-as-city-bike

[martinf]

I think Thorn like to make sure you can stand over the bike comfortably when off the saddle. I can't do that on my 24 inch non-sloping Woodrup frame from the late 70's.

My first Thorn Raven Tour is their 587S size, as advised by SJS cycles. It fits me OK, with lots of seatpost showing, and bars quite a bit higher than the top of the head tube. Plenty of standover height.

My second Thorn Raven Tour is their 612S size. This also fits me, with less seatpost showing and fewer spacers on the fork. Less clearance for standover, but still OK. I suppose I might find getting my leg over the top tube harder on this bike as I get older.

[High Moors Drifter]

I bought a Mercury earlier in the year. From the Thorn sizing chart I was of the opinion that a 580L was the size most suitable for me and when I visited Bridgwater I was even more convinced this was the right size as Andy who rides a 580L was the same height.

Andy suggested the 550L and after test riding both sizes I agreed. Why, the stand over height of the 580L was too high. I appreciate that the frame dimensions of the Mercury is quite different to the touring bikes.

On collecting the bike and comparing it to my Specialized road bike the geometry was very similar. The Mercury has a bit more seatpost exposed but this is an advantage in terms of comfort. I wanted the Mercury setup to match the Spec which has dropped bars and consequently has a 135mm stem with the narrow flat bars cut to 510mm and handles perfectly. From my experience I don't believe Thorn would give incorrect advice.

[Donerol]

A few years ago I bought an Audax Mk3. I wasn't able to visit Bridgewater but measuring up from my existing bike I thought a 525 or possibly 550 would be right for me. On the phone Thorn (?Lisa) was quite insistent that I should choose a 495, but I managed to persuade them to go with 525.

I'm glad I did, as I have yards of seat tube showing and loads of spacers in front - it took me  a long time to get comfortable on it. It handles well enough but to my eye is very ugly. I still prefer the old style of my 30-year-old Mercian with its horizontal top tube  .

[macspud]

Hello,
I talked to the seller and got this from him.
He is over 6ft his bike sold to him new is miles too small.
Originally fitted with drops. Owner found bars too low and saddle too low. As can be seen from photographs it is obvious the bike is too small for owner. He went to Bridgwater to be measured and this is what was sold to him.!! Thorn sells too small a bike for most people in my opinion. I went through the same originally until I specified the size I wanted! My size of bike chosen by me actually fits spot on.....Take note!
The EXP is a size 530 M (11) which suits a 5ft 6ins or so person maybe 5ft 8ish.
It is a nice bike and one I should love to own, if it were larger.
I hope this information is useful to at least one person?
Regards,
John

John,

In the Ebay listing he says that he is 5'11" not over 6'. He has as you say done many miles on it, I'd have thought that if it were miles too small, then he'd have sold it before now.

Looking at the size charts, a EXP 530 M is pretty close, size wise, to your beloved 550 S Audax 853.
The virtual top tube on the EXP 530 M is 550mm compared to 540mm on the 550 S Audax 853. The seat tubes are both 480mm though the slope on the EXP is only 50mm compared to 70mm on the audax so there would be 20mm more spacers showing on the EXP to get the same stem height. I not sure of the seat post angles of either bike as they are not shown in the brochures.

You say that you would love to own one if it were larger, what size EXP do you think would fit you best?