Ultra-low pressure tubes for offroaders and other roughriders: Schwalbe ProCore

[Andre Jute]

 
For those of you who want to ride offroad as I ride on rough lanes (right through the potholes) on my Big Apples, here's the Schwalbe ProCore Tube that lets you do exactly that.
http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/ie/en/schwalbe-procore-tube-set/rp-prod128958
The ouch! price is for a pair of tubes.

Also at http://www.schwalbe.com/gb/pressereader/procore-a-revolution-in-mountain-biking.html Schwalbe says development of the tube was spurred by the availability of very wide rims. The system presupposes a bead to bead width of 23mm.

As you can see, the tube consists of two tubes, with a special valve with a selector. The image tells the rest of the story: high pressure to keep the beed locked in, low pressure for riding.

According to the blurb:

Schwalbe ProCore Tube Set

Off road: Riding at lower pressure means better performance... but at the same time it increases the risk of failures. The limit so far is at about 20 psi, below which it's hardly possible to dare to ride normal MTB tires.

But nothing stays the same: In the future, air pressure can be controlled in the tire's double chambers. In the outer chamber, the air pressure is extremely low - ideal for maximum off road performance. In the inner chamber, directly on the rim, there is high air pressure – even a very strong impact cannot dent the rim edge. At the same time, the inner high-pressure system secures the tire onto the rim. "Burping", the dreaded loss of air at low pressure in conventional tubeless systems, is impossible.

Tire pressure can be reduced to a minimum 14 psi, thus providing a huge amount of grip.

Even on the roughest terrain tires "stick" to the ground.

The tire provides extremely sensitive cushioning.

Due to the extra cushioning and traction there is much better steering, braking and traction control.

No more risk of snake bites. The rims are extremely well protected from denting.

Even in the toughest conditions, significantly lighter tires can be used.

Excellent emergency running characteristics due to the internal high-pressure air chamber.

Procore can be used with any tubeless MTB tire.

Weighing ca. 200g (rider weight) per wheel. Compatible with all wheels regardless of brand. Internal rim width of 23mm. Series production is underway.

Sold as a set of 2 with all necessary components, in order to convert a complete bike. Later on components will also be individually available as replacement parts.

Set-Contents:
2 x PROCORE inner tires
2 x PROCORE special tubes
2 x Tubeless rim tapes
Doc Blue
Tire fitting aids.

Tyre Compatibilities:

Set 26" Art-No. 16610001
Set 27,5" Art-No. 16610002
Set 29" Art-No. 16610003

[revelo]

I'm having a hard time figuring who would benefit from this system. The big advantage appears to be better traction for competition mountain bikers riding very aggressively on challenging hardpack trails, who need as much traction as possible by running at low pressures, but are having problems with pinch flats and burping when using low pressures with standard tubeless setups. A very niche product, in other words.

[Edit. Actually, it's not pinch flats that this prevents, since we're assuming a comparison with tubeless for which pinch flats are impossible, but rather riding so aggressively at very low pressures that the rim gets damaged. That's really an extreme situation.]

It's not of much use on Thorn bikes, since ProCore system requires at least 57mm tires. The only Thorn bike which accepts 57mm is the Nomad and that is not a good bike for riding aggressively on challenging hardpack trails.

[revelo]

It's not of much use on Thorn bikes, since ProCore system requires at least 57mm tires. The only Thorn bike which accepts 57mm is the Nomad and that is not a good bike for riding aggressively on challenging hardpack trails.

So now we know what it's good for. Thanks!

PS: Mind you, it is also one of the few tyres that will survive a brush with my pets: http://coolmainpress.com/ajwriting/archives/5015

What's your problem, Andre? You posted some information about an innovative Schwalbe tire system. Relevant to this forum, since many of us run Schwalbe tires. I gave my analysis and I stick by what I wrote. In particular, the tire system would seem mostly useful for  lightweight sporty geometry mountain bikes intended for aggressive riding and supporting very wide tires, and Thorn doesn't offer such bikes. Surly does offer a number of bikes like that. (Though of course the fact that Thorn doesn't offer such bikes doesn't mean we can't discuss this tire system on this forum.) Maybe I'm missing something about applications for this new system, in which case I'd like to know what I'm missing. Instead of giving useful information, you give a smart-ass reply suggesting my posting was worthless.

And no, it is not one of the few tires that will survive a brush with your pets. Ordinary tubeless setups would do better.

[revelo]

It's not of much use on Thorn bikes, since ProCore system requires at least 57mm tires. The only Thorn bike which accepts 57mm is the Nomad and that is not a good bike for riding aggressively on challenging hardpack trails.

So now we know what it's good for. Thanks!

PS: Mind you, it is also one of the few tyres that will survive a brush with my pets: http://coolmainpress.com/ajwriting/archives/5015

What's your problem, Andre? You posted some information about an innovative Schwalbe tire system. Relevant to this forum, since many of us run Schwalbe tires. I gave my analysis and I stick by what I wrote. In particular, the tire system would seem mostly useful for  lightweight sporty geometry mountain bikes intended for aggressive riding and supporting very wide tires, and Thorn doesn't offer such bikes. Surly does offer a number of bikes like that. (Though of course the fact that Thorn doesn't offer such bikes doesn't mean we can't discuss this tire system on this forum.) Maybe I'm missing something about applications for this new system, in which case I'd like to know what I'm missing. Instead of giving useful information, you give a smart-ass reply suggesting my posting was worthless.

And no, it is not one of the few tires that will survive a brush with your pets. Ordinary tubeless setups would do better.

Why should I ever have a problem? I was just making smalltalk.

Seems to be a disconnect here in our conversation styles, because your reply to my post regarding reversing the Rohloff sprocket also leaves me scratching my head as to your intent. But if no malice on your part, no offense taken on mine. Have a nice day!

[macspud]

I for one was very interested to read about this new tyre technology, thank you Andre for pointing it out.

[Edit. Actually, it's not pinch flats that this prevents, since we're assuming a comparison with tubeless for which pinch flats are impossible, but rather riding so aggressively at very low pressures that the rim gets damaged. That's really an extreme situation.]

revelo, the reference to pinch flats comes directly from the Schwalbe literature.

"The reason for considering the development of a dual-chamber system was the trend to very wide rims, for example from Syntace. Thus, the riding characteristics of tires with low inflation pressures have become significantly better. Hachmeyer: "This had prompted us to give a great deal of thought as to how we can eliminate the risk of snake bites."

[davefife]

Its also worth noting that Schwalbe have only trained up limited dealers/mechs in the trade to sell and then fit the pro core system, thereby enhancing the exclusivity - niche product - nature of the system.  I have yet to encounter it professionally and have only chatted about it with a few well informed customers of mine.
D

[Andre Jute]

Since I'm almost exclusively a tarmac cyclist, even if on pretty rough tarmac, I have zero interest in treaded tyres, and even wish Schwalbe would remove the worthless, thin, figleaf tread from my fave Big Apples. But if this ProCore double-tyre technology brings low pressure/high grip/superior control to downhillers without any serious downside, that's good. Back when NASCAR first considered them. I tested some of the first double tyres at Talladega (a truly frightening banked two and a half mile oval in the States) and I remember being seriously impressed at the improvement they brought with them. Of course, that was in a 3400 pound car, rated at 3605 pounds for the inclusion of a 200lb redneck driver (just that loose detail of the 5 pounds this way and that to allow for a driver eating a big steak or the scales not being quite right gave Colin Chapman instant heartburn when one of his guys I gave a ride in my plane told him about how they weighed the car!). But even on a bicycle, I don't think the extra weight will outweight the benefits; instead, it aids gravity, because we are after all, talking of downhillers.

I must also add that, while I was appalled at the weight of even the lightest good tube (Schwalbe 19A, "Superleicht" 29er), and doubly appalled at the weight of even the lightest roadable Big Apple (the Liteskin folder; there is, or was, a slick, unbanded, somewhat lighter racing version good for a couple of hundred miles), after a few rides I just didn't notice anything about the tyres except their vast superiority on all the parameters that make for secure, fast coverage over the road. The weight, I now think, from experience as much as from theory, matters most, and in practice matters only, at breakaway from standstill, because at all other modes of motion the rotational urge of those tyres are overwhelming; I actually like riding with slack brakes, because I talk to pedal pals, and my mind goes walkabout, and I like a faceplant from a careless application of the brakes as little as the next man, but the Big Apples have so much momentum that in traffic your brakes had better stop decently or you could continually be bumping cars. I expect that Schwalbe's ProCore tyres in use will give much the same feedback to the cyclist.

Be nice to be able to try it, though.