Sporty Full Metal Sherpa

[AndyE]

Hi all. I am totally smitten with my Sherpa but I have a dilemma, I do wish it could be just a bit lighter and bit more sporty for the none touring day to day riding.  I lack the funds for a club tour mores the pity! and I am a bit on the chunky side or an Audax!  So I have a cunning plan! question is? would it make much difference to the ride by fitting lighter rims and lighter forks? A saving of around 1.5kg I'm guessing by not having ST26 Steel Fork , Rigida Andra 30 36 hole rims,  son 28 and Thorn MkV Cro Mo Steel Lo-Loader fitted.

These are the Items I am thinking on fitting.


DT Swiss XR425 26" , 559 MTB Rim 32 hole  Rigida Grizzly 26" , 559 MTB Rim 32 hole

Shimano Deore FH-T610 Rear Cassette Hub & Shimano Deore HB-T610 Front Hub

26" Thorn RAV853VC Steel Fork

What do you think?

Andy

[julk]

Andy,
the most cost effective way to lighten a bike’s ride is lighter rims, lighter tubes and lighter suppler tyres.
Leaving luggage behind will also work.

A new bike is another way, but it can be costly.
Good luck with your venture.
Julian.

[mickeg]

I have two sets of wheels for my 700c Long Haul Trucker. 
 - Touring set has Mavic A719 rims and I keep 37mm wide touring tires on it. 
 - The go fast around home set of wheels is a cheap set of wheels that I got on sale, I do not recall if there is a name on the hub or not, the rims are narrower and allow a pretty narrow tire.  I do not recall what model the rims are but I can say they are pretty light.  I have 28mm wide Continental smooth tread supple tires.  The go fast set of wheels was so cheap that I think it cost me more to put rim tape and another cassette on than the actual cost of the wheels.  If the wheels cost more, I would not have bought them, I bought them on a whim.

When I put the faster set of wheels on the bike, I feel much faster.  But if I go for a two or three hour ride, I get home only about 3 to 5 percent faster than if I had my slower touring wheels on the bike.  And the 28mm tires (they caliper to 25mm, not the full 28 on the label) are a very rough hard ride at the higher pressure that they need.  Thus, I think that the faster wheels is more perception than reality. 

I live in an area that is pretty flat.  While there are some hills, it is rare when I have to climb more than 30 or 40m.  And I think 90 percent of the difference is in the tire, not the other items like the lighter vs heavier rims.

But if you are in a hilly area, then less weight can be much more important.  But I can't imagine a lighter fork being worth it, that is a lot of cost for minimal savings - and a lot of effort to change back and forth.  On the other hand, a second set of wheels can be changed quite quickly.

If you do decide to get a second fork, I assume you would keep the original fork for touring and swap them as needed.  Try to get another headset race so that you can have one race installed on each fork instead of switching races each time you swap forks.  I have two forks for my Nomad (one suspension, one normal) and having the second headset race is definitely worth it.

Bottom line - if you really want a faster bike, I would first look for some really supple tires, about 32mm wide or narrower.  Then if that is not enough, make additional changes after that.

[lewis noble]

I read somewhere that "an ounce off the wheels is is good as a pound of the frame", and I think there is some truth in that.

I had the same dilemma as you; my Ripio suits me very well and the frame is jsut right for me, but I was wanting to make the bike livelier as my riding became more road/ lane oriented rather than track / trail.  I started off on 36h Grizzlys with 2" x 26 Duremes, and now have DT Swiss 32 h rims and 1.6" Supremes. 

The bike certainly feels a lot livelier and more responsive, and still very comfortable.  Is it actually faster, or just feels it?  Yes, it is marginally faster, difficult to be conclusive about this as I had done no comparable rides over the winter for a variety of reasons. 

The 32h rims have proved fine for me, I very rarely carry anything other than 'day' loads, and on the occasions I have loaded it up with shopping back to the campsite, I have gone carefully.

So yes, my view is that it does make a difference.

Lewis

[jags]

andy stick a carbon fork on it and a set of slick tyres  

anto

[AndyE]

Thanks all, some interesting ideas and tips. mickeg nice tip on the crown race, something I had not considered and one that makes perfect sense when using a spare forks.  Carbon forks on a Sherpa Anto!    

Andy

[jags]

Yes Andy if i had to keep my sherpa that was the next upgrade. i found the steel  forks as heavy as the frame itself,the carbon will give you more of a road feel .i tried different tyres on the sherpa the best  by a short mile was the supreams totally changed the feel of the bike.
Andy i don't use front panniers 2 rear barbag all my gear is as light as i can get it heaviest and bulkiest gear is cloths if i can sort that out I'll tour on me Dolan.

sjs  sell carbon forks for the sherpa check it out.

anto

[mickeg]

And I forgot to mention you would need another star nut for the second fork too.  Or one of those expando plugs that can perform the same function.  After having to drive my star nut in further a couple times on my Nomad when I cut my steerer tube shorter a few times, I was starting to think that the expando plug would have saved me a lot of time compared to using a star nut.

[AndyE]

Well I have gone and done it, more or less. Fitted Marathon Racer in 1.75 and it has made a huge difference.  The Sherpa is a little slicker. I was on the cusp of hitting return on a very expensive upgrade from sjs, New Lighter wheels with Son hub, new cassette, RAV853VC  forks, Crown race, star nut, new mudguard stays, and Tyres! Could have had a new bike for what it was going to cost, but as I am still struggling to range far from home and as I am in training mode, riding loaded when I have the time for my west coast of Scotland tour in September there seems little point at the moment.  I need the Sherpa in it's current configuration.  All in good time but it will happen.

Andy

[lewis noble]

Hello Andy

I took the plung a couple of weeks ago, and rebuilt my Ripio into a Sherpa, along the lines you were thinking of at the beginning of your thread.

I already had DT Swiss wheels and Supremes, so it was a matter of sjsc swapping the compoinents over to a Sherpa frame, yes, treated myself to the Rav 853 fork, and a lighter rack.

The Sherpa weighs in a !2.5 kg, ready to roll and tour (530S frame). About 2.7 kg lighter than the Ripio with Mt Tura forks.

It feels a lot livelier, and easier up hills.  First real test is going to be in the Lakes this weekend.

Yes, it wasn't cheap, but I am delighted with the result.

Lewis - Sheffield

[John Saxby]

Fitted Marathon Racer in 1.75 and it has made a huge difference

  Andy, I'll be keen to hear about your experience with the 1.75 Racers. I've just fitted a pair of 700 x 35 Racers to my derailleur bike (now used only for day rides), and I'm very pleased with them.  I'd especially be interested in hearing how your 1.75's handle rough tarmac and gravel, and whether the sidewalls are prone to cut.

I currently have 1.6 Supremes on my New Raven, and have been generally happy with them. For the future, though, I've been thinking about 1.75's, either Racers or the Compass 26 x 1.75's. 

[AndyE]

Hi John, I have very limited experience in this area so a pitch of salt might be needed. To explain why I changed to the Racer, is this. The tyres that came with the Sherpa were Panaracer PT wired , a smashing tyre to ride "BUT by the GODS" they attracted punchers like nothing I have ever owned. So far 3 weeks using the Racers has been very good even in the wet. I have not had them on a gravel road as yet but if its dry I do not see to much of a problem there, the side walls are a lot stronger than the panareacer. As for the rough tarmac a "high friction surface", some roads on my afternoon ride to my dads have just been resurfaced "tar and feather style", and to be honest they have ruined the ride on that stretch; it is now much slower, but the racers have the edge over the Panaracer. If I had specified when ordering my Sherpa, lets say a Folding Panreacer Tour Guard I might not of changed to the racer.

So far with my limited experience of modern tyres, I must say I am very imprest with the Racer. When I do get round to fitting lighter rims and forks to the my Sherpa the Racer in 1.5 is high on the list for a Tyre. As for the Marathon Supreme 1.6 fit nicely between 1.5 & 1.75 looking at the specs.

Andy

[JimK]

I've had the 1.75 racers on my Nomad this year. I've had them on some extremely difficult terrain & while I was reduced to walking and lifting my bike up the big boulder steps, I can't blame the tires for that! They did fine on the parts that were merely loose rough gravel! I did get one flat tire so far, just a bit of glass that had worked its way through. There is a lot of glass on some of the roads around here. I had a flat with a Supreme too, not far from the same spot. I'd avoid that dreadful spot if I could, but it right by where I live and therefore on my route if I am headed in that direction at all.

[John Saxby]

Thanks, Jim and Andy, that's helpful.  I'll stay with the 1.6 Supremes for now -- have only a season on the current pair, so I expect they'll be good for another couple of years at least. The 1.75's are attractive because their higher volume allows a lower pressure, and the width of the tire still allows me to use my nice and shiny 52 mm Velo Orange alloy fenders (mudguards).  The head-on (vertical) puncture protection in both the Supremes and Racers seems quite good, with the downside being the more vulnerable sidewalls.

Last year, cycling in Sweden, I had a bad cut on the sidewall of my rear Supreme, which I was able to repair and later replace.  I think that was due to a cut on a gravel road or a forest track. This year, I've had no similar problems, though I have done about 20 kms across a forest road with the Raven carrying a medium load.  Maybe last year's experience was just bad luck, as a couple of European bike shops suggested.

[geocycle]

The only problem with the supremes is they last forever! I've had a pair since 2011 with 12000 or so miles on them and no sign of the Kevlar showing through. I have marathon racers in the cupboard gathering dust.