Ow.

[Danneaux]

Hi All!

Just a friendly, gentle reminder for all to watch fingers if turning the cranks on a Rohloff drivetrain during a hub oil change or oiling the chain with the bike in a workstand. I was reminded myself this aftenoon during yet another oil change on the Nomad, the second since my return from touring on another Rohloff Thorn in September. Changed that bike's hub oil while in Germany, so I'm well experienced.

Unlike a derailleur drivetrain, there's no spring tension on the chain and if you get a finger in the way, you'll definitely know it. I've snapped small hardwood twigs that flipped into the chain while pedaling through forest.

I've reminded countless others of this concern on Fixed-gear and single-speeds, and the last time I was "bitten" was decades ago while servicing my father's 1938 Hercules, so I should have known better.

I got by this time with nothing more than a good pinch and will likely lose a nail, but I've seen whole fingers go on Fixie drivetrains and it is no fun collecting them for possible reattachment, which really doesn't succeed that often.

So...be careful!  

All the best,

Dan. (...who knew better and yet...   )

[Danneaux]

By the way...

Thorn's Rohloff oil change written procedure has been clarified since I last looked. There are comments specifically regarding reuse of the drain plug and other questions that have been raised here from time to time and a link to the Thorn oil change video is included also. See: http://www.thorncycles.co.uk/rohloffhuboil.html Text quoted verbatim below:

It has been drawn to our attention that there may be some confusion surrounding procedures for changing the oil on your Rohloff hub.

Here are some notes for your information and guidance

Note #1 - Rohloff have developed their Speedhub oil and their cleaning oil (aka rinsing or flushing oil) specifically for the Speedhub…do not use any other oil. For regular use during temperatures below -15 deg C the hub should be run with a 50:50 mixture of cleaning oil and regular oil; below -30 deg (!!!) you should use cleaning oil only, as it has a much lower viscosity. If you are simply spending a short time in such conditions (high mountain passes?) then you will notice that it becomes more difficult to change gear…this does not matter as far as the hub is concerned and will not cause you any real problems.

Note #2 - An oil change should be performed every 5000 kilometers (3107 miles) or once a year, whichever comes first.

Note #3 - You can perform oil changes yourself, as long as you use Rohloff oils, this will not affect your hub guarantee.

Note #4 - Despite what may be written in the manuals, Rohloff aim to put about 20ml (on average) of oil into the factory-filled hubs, of this, around 12ml will “permanently” adhere to the numerous internal surfaces, so do not be surprised if you don’t actually manage to drain out much oil!
Rohloff have told me that, at oil change time, the ideal quantity to “re-fill” with is 15ml (they say 25ml in their current literature to make certain that the hubs receive at least 12ml) So if you feel confident that you can accurately measure 15ml, then you will be able to make savings.
Rohloff tell me that there is no advantage to using more oil than this indeed, you will simply make oil drips (through the breather) more numerous, and leaks through the seals more likely.

The internal breather is a hole which vents into the inside of the hollow axle, it is normal to have a very slow seepage of oil from the axle. Please consider that, if oil is slowly oozing out, there is less chance of unwanted fluids seeping in!
But please note there may be a significant pressure drop during flights which can cause the hollow axle to fill with oil; this will find its way out via the QR skewer. There is no need for concern because once the hub has been filled with oil, it is then impossible to drain enough oil from the hub to cause a lubrication failure, certainly within the period to the next oil change (5000Km).

As mentioned above, there will always be around 12ml of oil adhering to the surfaces; to remove this oil would require a complete strip down to component parts or repeated rinsing with a harmful organic solvent (Not recommended!).

Please be assured that small oil “leaks” are not a problem unless the bike leaks oil onto an expensive carpet…in which case they become a big problem!
And please bear in mind that the seals in the hub are there, principally, to prevent ingress of unwanted matter…which they do superbly; the seals should not leak but an “oil mist” around them is normal (to make a seal that is always 100% effective (in both directions) would significantly increase internal friction!)

Note #5 - Contrary to step 5 page 88 in the Rohloff hub manual, it is not compulsory to fit a new drain screw every time you change the oil. Rohloff have said that a new drain screw is only required if it weeps oil, although it is highly recommended to have a new drain screw to hand, just in case you do need one. If you follow the manual you will never have weeping of oil from the drain screw…if you follow our advice, you will only occasionally need to fit a new drain screw. You should use some thread lock (Locktite 511) on the drain screw…be very careful not to over-tighten it!

Note #6 - For a problem free oil change you will require the "Rohloff full oil change kit", this consists of:

1 x 25ml cleaning oil in a 50ml bottle
1 x 25ml Rohloff Speedhub oil
1 x oil filling tube
1 x non returnable syringe 50ml
1 x drain screw

Order your "Rohloff full oil change kit" now from our on-line store.


Note #7 - For full oil change instructions, please follow the steps in your Rohloff manual (page 87) but it is perfectly permissible to substitute the procedures explained in the notes above.

Best,

Dan.

[John Saxby]

Thanks, Dan.  Hope your finger gets better!  Useful info on the updated oil-change procedure -- explains why I wasn't able to drain much from my hub last fall.  Good advice as well on keeping "used" drain plugs too, which I did anyway.  (But I still have a couple of extras, as I am sure that one of the wee critters is going to run away and hide one day, at a suitably inconvenient time & place...)

Looking forward to covering several thousand kms before the next change, and we have slight-but-marked progress on the weather front: hi temp of 0 forecast for today, the second in less than a week!  Forecasts of +3-5 this coming week, the first we've seen since forever, it seems.  No hint of the geese yet, however--even the crows, the first real sign of spring, have been markedly subdued & scarce. I did see a grey-bearded cyclist yesterday, an intrepid soul, as the roads are still narrow & icy.

Cheers,  J.

[Andre Jute]

Thanks for the warning, Dan. It's something that one doesn't think of in the glee at replacing those fragile derailleurs with an internal hub gearbox, that the ugly tensioner is a safety device. Hope your finger is better soon.

John, there's a young peloton that cycles past my house but not so far this year. It was clear this morning and the wind high wind was gone, but still a fraction too cold for me -- probably a balmy spring day by the standards of some of you guys!

[Danneaux]

Thanks for the good wishes, fellows; much appreciated! I usually type with two thumbs and a couple fingers on each hand, so I'm letting the pinched one rest a bit and typing a little slower.

The dangers of non-tensioned drivetrains are real. If you really get into spinning the drivetrain to circulate the oil, there's enough momentum in the mass to do a proper job keeping the folks at A&E employed. For another take on it, see Sheldon Brown's comments near the bottom of this linked page, but do be warned: The pictures are not for the faint of heart: http://sheldonbrown.com/fixed.html (<-- Guessing about half the people who read this will go "Ew! no..." and pass, while the other half say, "Great! lemme see..."   ).

Really! Be careful 'round these things....

All the best,

Dan. (...who might have had a hard time counting to ten if things had gone differently)

[nztony]

Dan

All the best for a speedy recovery. I will be the 50% who won't be clicking on that link, my imagination is more than necessary.

Best wishes,
Tony.

[Matt2matt2002]

A timely reminder for me.
This week I am refitting the Axa lock onto 2 inch Marathons.
It will be a tight fit so fingers crossed.
And also putting on a new EBB.
So removal of rear wheel, chain-glider, chain, cranks and then EBB.
There must be a squashed finger or 2 on the cards.
Fortunately Mrs.Matt is away skiing for a week in France, so all work to be carried out inside.
Pictures on progress to follow on Matt's Old Bird thread.

Any tips for the cranks and EBB?
New territory for me.

Matt

[Danneaux]

Any tips for the cranks and EBB?

Yes, Matt...

1) If you'll be removing or refitting a new sealed cartridge BB into the EBB, be sure to do it with the EBB securely fastened in the frame. You'll need the cartridge socket before you start, and a big wrench to turn it. If you have a torque wrench, you'll want it handy.

2) If you do remove the EBB, then be sure to grease it/coat with anti-seize before replacing it into the frame.

3) Follow the chain tensioning guidelines elsewhere on the Forum or in your manual. I've had really good luck on both my Nomad and AndyBG's RavenTour leaving the same initial 10-12mm of slack I leave on my tandem's timing chain. Not too tight, yet not so loose you have to tighten it very soon as the chain stretches.

4) Be sure to tighten the two EBB bolts securely and evenly, again following your manual. Don't have a manual ready to hand? Here's a copy you can download: http://www.thorncycles.co.uk/thornpdf/ThornBikeOwnerManual2Web.pdf

5) Retorque/tighten the cranks. They really should be tightened fully, as the hard steel BB spindle can cause damage to the soft aluminum cranks if they work loose.

6) On the AXA Defender...to avoid stressing the mudguards, slide it over the mudguard from the side while the rear wheel is out. You can always do it up properly later once the wheel is back in place, but is is much easier coming from the side, 'cos the mudguard is just a bit wider than the lock opening. As an encouraging data point, my AXA Defender worked fine with the 2in Duremes on both Sherpa and the Nomad, though I am going to mill mounts from aluminum billet for the Nomad's more widely spaced, larger-diameter seatstays to get a more secure connection to the bike in case somebody tries to make off with it while the lock hasp is thrown shut.

7) Mrs. Matt is Away. This means you are Home Alone and can get into trouble. If you run out of ideas, there is movie of the same name that will be of assistance.

8 ) You are Home Alone. This means you can get hurt alone too, so be careful. Please. This also means any help or assistance of the online sort is just a shout and Forum post away.

You'll do fine.  

All the best,

Dan. (...who has every confidence in a successful outcome)

[Matt2matt2002]

Cartridge socket?
Wassat?

I'm by minds eye I remove cranks, remove/ loosen x2 bolts that ' pin' in the EBB and then slide it out.
Do I need an extractor for the EBB?

Matt

[Danneaux]

Matt,

Your cartridge bottom bracket screws into your eccentric, which then slides into the frame and is secured by two screws
If you wish to replace your eccentric, then you will have to remove your cartridge and transfer it to the new eccentric.

Removing your cartridge bottom bracket requires a special socket, and the cartridge is best removed or installed with the eccentric firmly affixed in the frame.

So.

Whether you wish to replace just the eccentric or just the bottom bracket cartridge (sealed unit with shell, bearings, spindle,  retaining cups/rings,) you'll need a tool -- a special kind of socket -- to do so.

You'll also likely need a crank extractor unless your crank bolts incorporate that feature.

Best,

Dan.

[Matt2matt2002]

Many thanks Dan
I hadn't realised the cartridge was separate and inside the EBB!

I'll do the Axa, fit new brake pads and then take a look stbthe EBB with the cranks off.
I do have a puller for the crank removal.

I'll post pix of the EBB.
I think it looked pretty worn when I sneaked a peak last year.

Matt

[il padrone]

Tool for Shimano internal cartridge BB. You want to be careful when using it, as some Shimano cartridges have a plastic 'cup' on the LHS, and when the BB is older it is possible to break this off with the remover tool.

[il padrone]

Fixed gear photos  - Oooeeeeeoooo!!

Years ago on the old teenage single-speed when riding to school I got a pair of flared jeans all caught up in the drive - made mincemeat of those pants, and while the pants were clawed up in the chain the wheel was almost locked solid; had a devil of a time getting everything free 


'Twas a good learning experince. Thankfully I have never got any of my anatomy similarly stuck.

[Matt2matt2002]

Fixed gear photos  - Oooeeeeeoooo!!

Years ago on the old teenage single-speed when riding to school I got a pair of flared jeans all caught up in the drive - made mincemeat of those pants, and while the pants were clawed up in the chain the wheel was almost locked solid; had a devil of a time getting everything free 


'Twas a good learning experince. Thankfully I have never got any of my anatomy similarly stuck.

So do your still wear flares?
They are making a come back, so I am told.
 

[il padrone]

Been back and gone again at least twice since those days  

Have an old pair of flares still kicking about in the wardrobe (I think), that I once (about 18 years ago now) wore to school (work) on a 'daggy-dress day' for staff. I was offered $50 for them by one of the Year 12 senior students

Checked hipster flares they were...... with big cuffs. Kinda like this, but more flare