How good (or bad) is a Brooks B17 for the prostate?

[crazytraveler]

Hello,

One more question related to saddles. I finally got the Thunder Buster seat post, and I am sticking with my Brooks B17 saddle...

Recently an experienced and older cyclist screamed when he saw my saddle, trying to convince me to get a saddle prostate-friendly because he has had prostate problems. This is the third time someone makes this comment, but I don't know how well funded they are... What are your thoughts about it?

[Kuba]

Interesting comment. I've never heard it before, but makes sense to me as I occasionally experience a rather painful sensation in the said area after a day's riding myself... Now riding San Marco saddle and my prostate seems much happier!

[julk]

As I understand it,
when males get older all eventually have enlarged prostates.
1 in 3 will experience problems urinating due to the urethra constriction by the enlarged prostate.
1 in 30 will have developed prostate cancer as well, mostly a non aggressive form which they will probably die with rather than from.

If you experience discomfort or pain in that region from sitting on your saddle then a visit to your doctor may be a good idea.
Altering your riding position by moving the saddle or replacing it may also bring a benefit.

I am 68 years old, 1 of the 30 with non aggressive prostate cancer and have ridden B17 saddles all my life.
I have never had saddle induced pain cycling and will continue to cycle until unable for whatever reasons.

I have a son who was experiencing a lot of said pain.
Turned out his saddle was too narrow and he was taking his weight between his sit bones.
Changing his saddle to a wider model (B17!) sorted that out completely for him.
Julian.

[leftpoole]

Hello
I have had BPH for 25 years and it has nothing to do with saddles!
John

[Matt2matt2002]

BPH?

[julk]

Matt,
Benign Prostatic Hyperplasia, the medics term for prostate enlargement.
Have a look on wikipedia for more details http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benign_prostatic_hyperplasia
Julian.

[Danneaux]

BPH?

Shorthand for "enlarged prostate" and resultant difficulty/inability to completely empty the bladder as a result of the swelling/constriction of the urethra (same effect as standing on a garden hose, blocking the flow of water). Here, Matt: http://www.netdoctor.co.uk/diseases/facts/prostaticenlargement.htm

It is important to note that in some people (or some combinations of saddles and people), the prostate really can be affected by the shape or pressure of a saddle or by impact/vibration coming through the saddle. In this case, a suspension seatpost can help as can a change in saddle or a change in positioning on the same saddle. Even a change in riding apparel (padded shorts,padding type and shape/placement) can help.

The other concern with regards to males and saddles regards pudendal nerve entrapment, leading to numbness and related bloodflow issues. This latter condition is what saddle designers are seeking to address with various grooves, cutouts, and elevating bumps -- to relieve pressure on the pudendal nerve.

As a data point, I've never had a problem with any of these issues over many years and a great deal of use riding either Avocet Touring II saddles or Brooks B.17s, provided they were setup correctly for my needs. In my case, it means setting-up my drop handlebars so the tops are level or no more than a couple centimeters below my saddle-top with a reasonable reach, and the saddle itself has to be the right height, inclination, and setback behind the BB. Setting my Brooks B.17 slightly nose-down between 2.5° (new) and 1.5° (used) seems to relieve any such pressure for me.

Best,

Dan.

[Oops, sorry for the repeated definition, Julian. I was called away and didn't check for another reply before posting]

[Matt2matt2002]

Thanks chaps. My son-in-laws dad is a pharmacist. 64. I am 61.
I asked him about regular tests for the prostate and he said there is a blood test.
He suggested every 2 years, at our age.
Any thoughts?

Hope this hasn't gone too off topic from saddles.
Matt

[Danneaux]

Matt,

Right now here in the States, there appears to be a move away from regular testing for PSA (Prostate-Specific Antigen), a test which can serve as an early warning of possible cancer, but also seems to be plagued with a high rate of false-negative results and PSA can become elevated for other reasons, such as an infection. When I was battling four tick-borne diseases, my PSA rose dramatically, but we knew the cause and confirmed it with a biopsy.

The naysayers indicate this leads to expensive and unwarranted testing and much angst and some unnecessary surgery which can have suboptimal results. This group says prostate cancers are generally slow-growing and a person is more likely to die with it than from it.

PSA proponents say the best defense against prostate cancer is regular testing and then further investigation if there is a spike in PSA numbers. This group says by the time one has symptoms, it can be too late; testing means early detection that can save lives.

Even among urological practices here in my town, there is disagreement about which approach is best.

Unfortunately, I have lost four good friends to fast-growing prostate cancer; by the time it was found, it had metastacized (spread) to other organs and nothing could be done. A series of elevated PSAs alerted doctors to my own father's prostate cancer, which was also of the speedy kind, and he went for prostate removal and is still here, close on 20 years later. In his particular case, if left untreated, it is unlikely he would have survived.

I decided some years ago it would be a Good Idea to incorporate a PSA into my annual physical and use the results as a baseline to alert me in case of a change. Fortunately, my physician is of like mind. I'm 54. I've been happy with this approach, but it is something you have to decide for yourself. For some (perhaps even a majority), the odds look pretty good and ignorance is bliss and if there is a problem, it progresses slowly enough to not matter. For others, the idea of an early warning has great appeal, with options to be explored based on further investigation (i.e. a biopsy).

All the discussion so far has been a direct outgrowth of the OP's question about saddles and prostate health, but if things stray too far, I can always split the topic.

Best,

Dan.

[Danneaux]

Swinging things back a bit to CrazyTraveller's initial question, I have seen a couple instances where a Brooks saddle could have caused pressure on/to the prostate, but in each case, the saddle had been ridden wet, deformed, and then brought back into shape by (over)tensioning. The result was a ridge down the center, which Jobst Brandt once described rather inelegantly but accurately as a <ahem> "hatchet" to one's posterior. Having tried the two saddles in question, I found them horrible, though the discomfort seemed to be more widespread than just the <cough> prostatic region.

Best,

Dan.

[il padrone]

I have ridden bikes actively for over 35 years much of the time riding on Brooks saddles. A couple of years back I had the obligatory digital prostate check. The doctor's comment was 'Hmm, it feels unusually flat'. There were no concerns, but it did get me thinking whether a lot of riding would cause a actual change in shape of the prostate.

[percussionken]

Hi

I've been using Brooks saddles for many years and liked them but 2 years ago I had prostatitis/inflammed prostate. Very painful and the doctor said no more cycling until its over. Depressing to hear that but what saved me was the Rido2 saddle, no pressure at the front. So with that saddle and merino wool underwears when its cold I could keep on cycling. I live in Scandinavia and have a 7km one-way commute and it doesn't matter if its snowing or raining. The Rido is here;  http://www.sjscycles.co.uk/rido-r2-saddle-with-cro-mo-rails-black-prod23703/
At the time my problem started I had quite a new B17 so no sagging there on that saddle.
It took me almost a year to get rid of this problem but the Rido kept me on my bicycles, thank god  .
Now after getting rid of this prostratitis I've tested my B17 but that's a no,no for me, to much pressure at the front, even with the saddle tip a bit lower.

I have liked my Brooks saddles (had 3) on my bicycles but nowadays I use the Rido for my commute/T Raven and Selle Italia Max Flite Flow saddle on the T Discovery tandem and  CT Mk4 S&S http://www.sjscycles.co.uk/selle-italia-selle-italia-max-flite-gel-flow-saddle-prod19781/
It works for me and that's all. So I don't recommend getting rid of your Brooks saddles when getting over the 50sh. Before this happened I liked my Brooks but the prostratitis put me in a new situation. And to be able to cycle was more important then my Brooks saddles. Even tried recumbents and that was fun but I wanted to be able to keep my Thorn-bikes.

By the way I'm 56 and every second year nowadays I check my PSA. My father have had prostate cancer and is still alive but the risk for me to have it is then higher because of this.

[leftpoole]

Hello,
Due to very regular Hospital visits I take a PSA test every 6-12 months. Mine is very low at 3, I am pleased to say. The average for a man without cancerous cells, is 5. So I am happy and I continue to use Brooks saddles.
I still say that it is nothing to do with the saddle!
John

[Kuba]

All bodies are different John. I agree with what Dan said, it must be a mixture of one's anatomy, saddle, and set up. In my experience there's definitely a link, and riding on B17 in cold weather definitely was affecting my prostate (not talking cancer here, but acute pain when passing urine at the age of 30-something is alarming enough for me). I played with the saddle set up but never managed to get it right, while swapping to San Marco resolved the problem for me altogether.

On a side note, my B17 came second-hand but San Marco wasn't new either.

[percussionken]

Hello,
Due to very regular Hospital visits I take a PSA test every 6-12 months. Mine is very low at 3, I am pleased to say. The average for a man without cancerous cells, is 5. So I am happy and I continue to use Brooks saddles.
I still say that it is nothing to do with the saddle!
John

Hi
Sorry if I'm unclear, my mother tongue isn't English.

Prostatitis have nothing to do with prostate cancer . The cause for prostatitis isn't clear except that (maybe) it has something to do with a bigger prostrate when you are getting older. Or, for some, the cause is a bacteria and than you can take antibiotics and get rid of it.

But my personal story was that I got prostatitis (it wasn't bacteria)and that made it impossible for me to use my B17. It was just to painful. But this Rido saddle made it possible for me to keep on using my bicycles. So after a year I got rid of prostatitis. Then I tried the B17 and the pressure on front made me think that maybe I shouldn't take the risk ( I thought, what that is now worth)) so I didnt go back on my Brooks saddles. But maybe its no risk, I don't know.
Regarding the Selle Italia saddle it also works for me. I started slowly to use it when the problems started to fadeout.
But what I know is that I don't want this prostatitis back, its painful(24h/day) and depressing when you want to be on your bicycles. And I don't recommend against using B17. This is just my story going from happy user of the Brooks to use other saddles.
Ken