Nomad or Raven ?

[AndrewClark]

Hi everyone,

I've been touring for 8 years now on "Blue Meanie", an Orbit 531ST frame fitted with my own hand built 26" wheels, LX/XT transmission & Magura rim brakes.  This bike has taken me to Iceland, Norway (twice),Scotland (several times), Corsica and from Geneva to Nice over all the lumpy bits.  All this carrying a full camping load and doing plenty of "rough stuff".

http://www.andrewclark.dsl.pipex.com/

It's a comfortable bike to ride and I've never had a serious mechanicals whilst on tour. The only problem I have is Shimmy!

Put front panniers on and sooner or later I'll be wobbling all over the place. This really spoilt last years tour of Norways Fjords. I'm not light (16st) and was carrying several days food, camping gear, 2 cameras & a tripod!  The wobble became really dangerous and I was very frightened at some times. It could be minimised by shifting weight around in the panniers but was always there.

I don't want the faff of a trailer so it looks like a new bike or frame. £££££££!!!

I'm looking at two from the Thorn stable, the Nomad which would allow me to buy the frame and transfer bits from my current bike or the Raven Tour (I hate adjusting derailleurs!)

Could anyone please comment on the suitability of these two options for my style of touring. Are the frames prone to shimmy at all when heavily loaded and with a tall fat ******** in the saddle?  

After so many years with drops I'm not too sure about the straight bar only option on the Raven, has anyone tried the Rohloff shifter sold by http://www.mittelmeyer.de/html/produkte.htm ? It looks like the most elegant solution.

Thanks

Andrew

[Pedaldog]

I'm not tall but I weigh in at 18stones!
Had Nomads and regret, deeply, letting them go. They took me and a full shedload fo camping gear with not a problem. Rohloff looks nice but I would rather stick with the Nomad.

[hoogie]

i am really happy with my nomad ... it is rock solid when fully laden, even when belting down the long steep hills here in new zealand ... actually it is rock solid unladen too ...

i have the biggest one they make without going custom, i'm about 6'4' and 16 1/2 stone, plus i tend to take way too much stuff on tour with me as well ...

http://www.hoogie.co.nz/bikes/nomad.htm

[PH]

Thorns pricing policy seems to be different to their competitors, the frame price is a considerably larger percentage of the bike price.  Typically 50-60% as opposed to 30-40% from everyone I’ve either bought from or been quoted by, Hewitt, Mercian, Jackson, Yates…I understand how this might encourage someone looking for a frame to step up to a complete bike, it would send me elsewhere.  Complete bike prices are competitive, particularly the Rohloff range.
Rohloff V Derailleur – I ride both, I have no problem with either and no axe to grind.  My favorite bike is derailleur, my most used Rohloff.  As you’ve said elsewhere this subject has already been well covered, not least on here, I doubt I’ve anything new to add.  The main advantages IMO are reliability, longevity and easy maintenance.  The price for that is restricted choice, gearing ratios, shifters, replacement parts.  
Drops V straights – I prefer drops but until someone comes up with a combined brake/shifter I’m sticking with straights.  I have mine set up to replicate riding on the hoods or tops, I miss the drop position, but not as much as I’d thought.
I wasn’t 100% convinced the Raven would be the right bike for me, the 100 day trail offer convinced me it was worth trying, I’m glad I did[]

[Jitensha]

Hi Andrew,

You might find this article interesting.
http://www.sheldonbrown.com/brandt/shimmy.html

I came across it in "The Rivendell Reader", a publication by Rivendell Bicycle Works in the US. In the Rivendell article 2 ways to stop shimmy were mentioned:
1. Touch one or both knees to the top tube
2. Pedal. Any speed ok, just move the pedals around

Re your question. I've got a Thorn Raven and I like it, but I can't say that I love it. I love the Rohloff hub though. It's simply fantastic. I've got the biggest size Raven and it's solid when loaded, but not rock solid. During a tour last Summer I had minor shimmy on accasion. Also, it's not a particularly attractive bike. Aesthetics certainly aren't the top of my list of priorities, but when spending over 1,000 pounds on a bike it is somewhere on the list. The headtube badge in particular is very tacky IMO.

I've seen a Nomad and I've got to say it looks much better. I get the impression too that the Nomad is a more solid bike. I think it may have slightly thicker tubes so perhaps it would be more shimmy resistant that the Raven Tour.

Just to be clear: my Raven didn't shimmy much, but it was perceptible on occasion.

[AndrewClark]

PH, I see what you mean about Thorn's pricing policy. For the price of an off the peg Nomad frame I could get a custom Dave Yates/Robin Mather/Chas Roberts etc.  But then you hit their waiting lists..

Bikes look better with drops!  I very rarely use them, spending most time on the hoods or flats but it's nice to have the option for the inevitable headwind.

Jitensha, I've tried the knee to top tube method and it does work, but doesn't solve the root cause of the problem. It's also not convenient if you need to do it multiple times during the day.  I never had the problem when I used "Limpet" style panniers so may go back to these although I have doubts about their long term durability & removing the bags is a pain http://www.carradice.co.uk/panniers/limpet-carradura-panniers.shtml

Andrew

[stutho]

Both are Very - VERY - good bikes.  Both have been round the world and back again.  As a bike I believe the Raven offers more value for money and is a highly versatile machine.  As a frame I think the Nomad is more robust.  Overall which is more reliable?  Who knows - personally I think the Rohloff hub wins out, but that is just my opinion.

You mention the problem of the Rohloff shifter on drops I too was very concerned about the problem now I don't even notice that my shifter is not mounted to my drops (it on an accessory bar - on my LEFT hand).  

The nice thing about the choice you have got is that both options are excellent.  Why not take the 100-day trial with the Raven if it isn't perfect then switch to the Nomad.

[stutho]

(Of course the bike you really want - and the rest of us as well - is the Rohloff eXp)

[PH]

quote:Originally posted by stutho


Why not take the 100-day trial with the Raven if it isn't perfect then switch to the Nomad.

That was my plan, I think it was day 3 I decided to keep it[]

[AndrewClark]

(Of course the bike you really want - and the rest of us as well - is the Rohloff eXp)

Yes!,  but I'd have to call that one "Overtime"!  (Am I the only one who names his bike ?)

PS, what's current delivery time for a Raven Tour?

[DomT]

The Nomad comes alive when it is loaded, I have every confidence in it going down those mountains (and they're not bad at going up them either!).

A couple of weeks ago I was out with a friend cycling around south London when out of the blue a chap on a Lightspeed bike crashed into the side of me - he bounced right off and ended up hitting the deck. So, you could say that the Nomad is one tough bike!

[PH]

quote:Originally posted by AndrewClark


PS, what's current delivery time for a Raven Tour?

I think you'd have to ring and ask, it probably depends on stock and how busy they are. I think my wait was around 4 weeks, I know someone who had theirs in less than 2.