Touring Set Up for RST - Which panniers and Racks?

[Fred A-M]

On my recent week of cycling in Southern France (report to follow), my trusty Altura panniers started to show the first significant signs of wear after 5 years of regular use and 10 or so tours.

I've also decided that the way forward is going to be camping, Sterling's devaluation and inflation meaning that credit card touring abroad has nearly doubled in cost over 5 years.   So I want to splash out on (ideally matching) sets for front and rear to ensure even distribution of load on the RST, mindful of its 12kg rear 5kg front recommended capacity.

It seems that the last great pannier debate on this forum dates back a few years I was wondering if people could be so kind as to help me with my dilemna by way of up to date opinions and recommendations

Ortleib seem to lead the way, but with one major drawback compared to what I'm used to - they don't seem to have handy pockets for tools and other useful-to-have-at-hand items.   I'm guessing the ethos is greater simplicity equals best quality.  I note that add-on pockets are available at as an extra to the already considerable cost.  By way of starting the debate, I'm quite tempted by the look of these!

http://www.sjscycles.co.uk/product-Ortlieb-Ortlieb-Back-Roller-Plus-All-Black-Rear-Panniers-4552.htm

http://www.sjscycles.co.uk/product-Ortlieb-Ortlieb-Front-Roller-Plus-All-Black-Panniers-4553.htm

I also need a front rack: I quite like the look of these as I'd imagine them to be on my RST but being a relative novice when it comes to working out appropriateness, I'm not sure whether they'd fit on the RST and be compatible with above front panniers?

http://www.sjscycles.co.uk/product-Tubus-Tubus-Duo-Custom-Low-Rider-Rack--Fit-Frames-With-Braze-Ons--Black-1192.htm

Any advice/thoughts/criticisms greatly appreciated!

[julk]

My cycling family currently use a variety of pannier brands - Vaude, Altura, and Carradice, previously Karrimor and Edinburgh Coop. We have the waterproof models and find they all perform very well. If you are taken by having extra pockets then Altura are hard to beat with their Orkney models and Carradice with their Super C models.

Arkel offer even more in the way of pockets, but they cost an extraordinary amount.

I am sorry, I cannot comment from experience on the Ortliebs, but they look very similar to the latest Vaude panniers and should be excellent.

I am assuming you have steel forks with mid fork braze-ons, the Thorn RST brochure implies this is a recent change!
The Duo is a very nice looking rack and I have seen it in use.
Any of the Tubus or Thorn low riders will be strong long lasting racks.
The models with a bar over your front wheel need only a mid fork braze on on the outside, or a clamp round the fork blade. The other models need a double sided braze on. I have used both types and they performed equally well for me, the only differences are in the way the top pannier hooks fit (or not) near the front of the rack.
The Thorn and Tubus Ergo models have more vertical tubes for fixing the pannier anti sway hook onto.

I hope this helps.

[PH]

On my Raven I like to spread the weight around, if anything it then handles better than unloaded and the only time I notice the weight is on long hills.  I use;
Ortlieb Classic front rollers on the rear rack, packed with all the camping gear. 
Carradice Pendle saddle bag with stuff I might need during the day, waterproofs, extra layer, tools and a bit of space for any on route shopping.
Small 18ltr panniers on the front rack, with clothes and wash kit.
Small Vaude bar bag for valuables and maps.
The only thing that isn’t bagged up is the tent poles and only then because they’re too long to fit in a pannier. That’s enough for three season camping, never too far from civilisation and I’ve never toured for more than two weeks.  I’ll carry minimum cooking kit and no more than the ingredients for a couple of meals.
On my lighter non Thorn tourer, adding front panniers makes the steering feel sluggish and the bike less responsive (hard to explain, but easy to feel)  I tend to use this for shorter camping trips and try and get everything into two panniers.
Front racks – I’ve only had the one, a Tubus Ergo, I like the hoop over the wheel and the frame to keep bags well away from the wheel.
Ortlieb panniers – the Plus is a bit lighter than the Classic and doesn’t look so industrial.  Functionally I don’t thing there’s much difference unless you have a problem with heel clearance, then the Plus are better as they can be tilted. 

[stutho]

I am a big fan of Carradice - in Super C.   On my RST I have a pair of Limpets up front (My RST is a Mk1 without braze-ons!).  On the RT I have a pair of Super C universals up fount sitting on a Tubus Ergo.  The Super C cotton is just about bomb proof and is surprisingly waterproof.  Both bikes are using pleb rear panniers at present but When these eventually die I will be replacing them with Carradice rears.   

[geocycle]

I use Ortlieb bikepacker plus.  They fasten like traditional panniers and have mesh pockets on the front which are handy for stowing removable accessories, bungies, plastic bags etc.  There is also a rear inner sleeve which keeps paperwork, maps etc in good order and another mesh pocket for small items.   I've used them every day for 2.5 years.  They are very good and completely waterproof.  I can't say excellent as they don't have a useful strap for carrying off the bike and I have noticed some wear where they rub against the lower bend on the tubus rack, some tape has been used to stop this rubbing through into a hole. The tubus cargo rack is strong and well designed.  Again I cannot say excellent as it has rusted quite badly where the black anodising finish has scratched and stainless steel might be a better option.

[Fred A-M]

Thanks everyone - most appreciative of the wide range of opinions and very much reassured by the lack of alarm expressed ref my initial suggestions from a posse of clearly seasoned cycle-tourists!

I'll hopefully have the time to make it into a bikeshop where they stock most of these (not easy to find in London!) to compare  and contrast, though I suspect I may well end up sticking with my original suggestions if I don't manage this.   

As much as I've enjoyed the Altura panniers I've had, I think the overall reputation of Ortlieb may well to prove too much of a lure (hopefully having front panniers will bring new organisational initiative to the fore to compensate ref pockets) - though I will definitely give Carradice due consideration too. 

Have managed to sneak in another week long cycling stint in France mid August in the Limousin region so will be needing to make my mind up pretty quick. 

Thanks again and will let people know the outcome and resulting impressions of my deliberations!

[Fred A-M]

Just did a 40 mile training ride with new set up - Black Ortlieb Roller Plus front and rear with Tubus Duo Front Rack.  V happy, as the RST seems to handle better with a load on the front.  I'd always found the RST handling a bit twitchy in certain conditions (in 1st or 2nd going towards the end of a particularly viscious climb or downhill in strong cross winds).  Having panniers at the front negates this and actually makes the RST feel very comfortable handling wise.

My only concern is that I find the Ortliebs are a bit counter-intuitive when it comes to closing them due to closing at the rack-side and if they're not sufficiently packed, a bit trickier than normal to close, but I'm sure its just a case of getting used to them.  They are noticeably lighter than the Alturas that I have.   Otherwise, extremely content, particuarly with Tubus duo front rack which I feel complements the RST nicely. 

[wal]

Fred,

Sorry to restart this thread, but I have just bought the Tubus Duo and have a RST. I have been unable to mount the Duo such that the mounting bar is horizontal. In fact the best I can achieve is far from horizontal and the rack points down at the front.

Can anyone think what I may be doing wrong, or does the angled mounting bar not really matter.

PW

[Fred A-M]

Hi Wal

No worries, I understand entirely as I had a similar conundrum going on when fitting the TD, the slant seemed counter-intuitive - after much puzzling, I came to the conclusion that this is actually how they are meant to be, as I found that there was to nothing suggest that the TD wouldn't fit the RST, and I fitted with the minimal slant that was allowed.   

Having completed a tour with them, the panniers sat safely and securely and the RST handled extremely well.  See link below for pic of RST loaded panniers which you'll notice slant slightly forward!   

http://www.thorncycles.co.uk/forums/index.php?topic=2197.0

If you are still in doubt, let me know, and I'll take and post a pic with the TD without panniers so you can compare!

[Joatamon]

It could almost be considered a feature as a sloping rail means the pannier should always rest in the same position as there might otherwise be a bit of fore and aft movement  - but - I imagine you'll know that the rails of the Ortlieb panniers can be adjusted (rotated) a bit so the panniers will hang plumb anyway.  However this does mean that they become "handed" and have to be planted on the correct side each time.

Edit - but of course - if you adjust the position of the fixing clips so that they're not central, they become handed anyway.  Forgot about that.  You might not want the fixing clips central if you get heel overlap - on the rears at least.

[wal]

Thanks for the responses folks, I had already decided that I would treat it as a positive 'feature' and try to level the Ortlieb panniers a little. Fred's set up does however show that visually they do not look unusual or obviously out of kilter.

Kind regards

PW