Author Topic: Power-servicing your Rohloff  (Read 19493 times)

steve216c

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Re: Power-servicing your Rohloff
« Reply #30 on: June 14, 2021, 10:46:59 PM »
Rohloff warn about not overtightening the grub screw after oil change. That metal non aligned surface may be the reason if it is a moving part.
But as others have said, we also have it, so you are in good company or all our hubs are toast. :o
If only my bike shed were bigger on the inside...

sudo

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Re: Power-servicing your Rohloff
« Reply #31 on: September 01, 2021, 10:15:38 AM »
Regarding the oil fill hole, as others have said, it is completely normal; nothing to worry about.

I'd like to point out though, with respect, that the part visible underneath the fill screw actually doesn't rotate relative to the hub shell. If you're interested, what you're looking at is part of the second stage planet carrier, which is directly connected to the hub shell via the nylon overload pins. As a result, any time you open the fill screw you'll see the same "misaligned" gap.

On my hub, I actually don't see any gap at all, but the oil can still get to where it needs to be.

Matt2matt2002

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Re: Power-servicing your Rohloff
« Reply #32 on: September 01, 2021, 05:57:02 PM »
Interesting point Sudo.
I always take a peek inside when oil changing.
And always see the same!
Now I know why.

Best

Matt
( Who always likes to learn six new things a day )
Never drink and drive. You may hit a bump  and spill your drink

Bill

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Re: Power-servicing your Rohloff
« Reply #33 on: September 20, 2021, 02:04:43 AM »
I'm just finishing my third oil change of the season, this time on my refurbished Thorn Raven Nomad, and as usual I consult this thread for the wisdom conatained therein. Thanks, guys.
 

Matt2matt2002

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Re: Power-servicing your Rohloff
« Reply #34 on: September 20, 2021, 10:41:41 AM »
I'm just finishing my third oil change of the season, this time on my refurbished Thorn Raven Nomad, and as usual I consult this thread for the wisdom conatained therein. Thanks, guys.
May I ask your mileage this year?
I'm a two and a half thousand mile a year man myself.
More if I can tour abroad. Fingers crossed for next year.
Never drink and drive. You may hit a bump  and spill your drink

Andre Jute

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Re: Power-servicing your Rohloff
« Reply #35 on: September 20, 2021, 07:41:58 PM »
That sounds like a 15K plus year, Bill. A marvelous achievement, of course. But how'd you manage in the lockdown not to get arrested?

PH

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Re: Power-servicing your Rohloff
« Reply #36 on: September 20, 2021, 08:01:53 PM »
That sounds like a 15K plus year, Bill. A marvelous achievement, of course.
I'm guessing Bil changes the oil in more than one Rohloff, there's a clue when he says "This time", and without more information there's no way of knowing the distance  ;)
I'd be doing three oil changes a year, even if I didn't ride at all.
Quote
But how'd you manage in the lockdown not to get arrested?
I don't know where Bill is located, but in England there's never been a restriction on how far you can cycle.
« Last Edit: September 20, 2021, 08:05:06 PM by PH »

Bill

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Re: Power-servicing your Rohloff
« Reply #37 on: September 21, 2021, 04:43:38 AM »
Oops, sorry guys, bad phrasing, I have three Rohloffs and every one gets an annual oil change.
Little bit late in the season for the Thorn but Ivve been doing some work on it, and its just now ready to go.
I have a friend who does 10 000 km+ ever year, which is tough to do in a climate where the roads are covered in snow and ice for 5-6 months per year.
 

Andre Jute

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Re: Power-servicing your Rohloff
« Reply #38 on: March 31, 2022, 01:13:04 AM »
On Sunday I serviced my Rohloff with 25ml of Cleaning Oil -- and on Wednesday got 30ml back after the syringe hung down from the drain hole for two days. Here's the proof:


Hallelujah! 30ml of oil drained from Rohloff Speed 14. Unfortunately, there were special circumstances.

Let's do some quick math here. Inside the Rohloff there should be the 16ml of All Season Oil that I put in at the previous Power Service last year, plus the 25ml of Cleaning Oil I put in on Sunday, total 41ml less what dropped on the paper I put on the floor, in any event say at least 37ml (that's a different calculation: 12ml of All Season Oil that sticks to the gears plus the 25ml of Cleaning Oil, with the difference of 4ml presumed misted out or dripped out of the tube after I detached the syringe). However, experienced Rohloff cyclists know for a fact, and I do too, that if you get much oil at all out after putting in 25ml of Cleaning Oil, you never get even the whole 25ml of Cleaning Oil back.

Okay. What happened here? Special circumstances is what happened here. The year before the Chinese virus, Covid-19, wasn't too great for cycling in Ireland and my pedalpals kept dying or breaking their bones in golfing falls, so my total distance was a miserable 600km. Then came the pandemic and it soon became obvious that the mandatory mask steamed up my spectacles every couple of seconds so that I couldn't even ride into the countryside to the permissible radial limit from my house. To cut a miserable long story short, I hardly cycled for the two years of the pandemic. But I still serviced the gearbox on the once-a-year schedule, and I've been getting more and more oil back out, and less and less black. But this is the first time I've seen somewhere near what the math which so upsets newbies misleads us into thinking should have come out.

Okay, let's make some new math to explain what we're seeing. Last year, after servicing the Rohloff with Cleaning Oil, and draining the Cleaning Oil, and filling with 16ml of All Season Oil, there was, at the moment I finished the service and screwed in the new stud, the following in the Rohloff:
1. A mixture of whatever old All Season Oil wasn't washed off by the Cleaning Oil, with some Cleaning Oil sticking to surfaces, minimum together 12ml.
2. Possibly a small amount of dirty mixture not fully extracted, maybe 2ml or 3ml.
3. 16ml of All Season Oil I put in.
4. Can we all agree this is a minimum of 28ml or perhaps 30ml in the gearbox?

Now the bike stands for all of last year and the first few months of this year, except for a few very short rides to the shops, very likely a few tens of kilometers. The only time the gearbox moves seriously is when I spin the wheel with the motor so the oil and whatever scarf remains in the box doesn't settle in one place and get stuck there by dried oil. Nothing is flung out and what is misted out doesn't settle on the tiles on which the bike stands, so I can't tell how much has misted out. That has to wait for the next service, this one, as has an assessment of how much water vapor entered the box.

Now let's calculate what I got back this year in "dirty" oil for disposal. There was, by our last calculation, 28ml or perhaps 30ml of various oils in the box a year ago, and on Sunday last I added 25ml, call the total 55ml and a couple of days later drained 30ml, or say 32ml to allow for spills. It seems unlikely to me that anything misted out or condensed inside the gearbox in this brief period when nothing about the heat cycle around the bike was changed. Okay, here we go:
1. 55ml total presumed in gearbox.
2. 32ml taken out.
3. A further 12ml sticking to gears and inside structures and walls of the Rohloff.
4. So we have to account for 55 - 32 - 12 or 11ml that misted out plus some amount for water condensation from the ambient air, which I'm planning to ignore unless someone wants to put a number on it.

Finally, unless someone finds a logical flaw, we have a handle on why so little comes out of a Rohloff after a 5000km/3000m of use or one year of even near-zero use.

About 11ml is the minimum annual "missing oil" from the Rohloff Speed 14 even with no use. With use it seems to me inevitable that the "lost oil" will amount to more than 11ml.

***
We're not talking about very dirty oil but that the cleaning oil should become at all darker when cleaning an essentially unused Rohloff raises the obvious question: Why? First of all, the Rohloff HGB isn't sealed against air, which carries water vapor, which will react with oil and discolor it. Second, the Rohloff is made of aluminium, which also reacts with oil. Third, there's steel inside the Rohloff which is subject to rust. Fourth, you never get all the dirty Cleaning Oil out of the Rohloff, because it too sticks to the gears, complete with whatever dirt it picked up from easier services, so at the next cleaning cycle, even if the bike was not used, the Cleaning Oil extracted will bring at least a little "heritage dirt" with it.
« Last Edit: April 02, 2022, 09:19:23 AM by Andre Jute »

John Saxby

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Re: Power-servicing your Rohloff
« Reply #39 on: April 02, 2022, 05:56:18 AM »
Ah, so.  Thank you, Andre, thorough and clear as always.

I confess I never wondered or wondered a great deal about the discrepancies betw Oil In and Oil Out, mostly 'cos I trusted that the hub was getting reasonably clean from its annual flushing (to judge from the "healthy amount" of dirty oil); and reasonably lubed from the ~18 ml of Hub Oil I insert each year.

Clearly, there's more going on than I was aware off.  Glad to know that Someone is abreast of it.  And, if my prospective buyer of Osi the Raven does buy the bike in May, I'll make sure that she knows where she can unravel Oily Rohloffian Mysteries.

In mostly unrelated matters:  have done a couple of short-but-lovely rides along the Gold Coast to reacquaint myself with my derailleur bike on a Real Road -- fotos and scribblings to follow.

Cheers,  J.

Andre Jute

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Re: Power-servicing your Rohloff
« Reply #40 on: April 02, 2022, 11:09:06 AM »
In mostly unrelated matters:  have done a couple of short-but-lovely rides along the Gold Coast to reacquaint myself with my derailleur bike on a Real Road -- fotos and scribblings to follow.

Thanks for the timely reminder that I hadn't yet opened the 2022 rides page, now remedied -- click on either line:
+++ Rides 2022 +++ Add yours here +++
http://thorncyclesforum.co.uk/index.php?topic=14555.0

I look forward keenly to seeing your rides, John.

JohnR

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Re: Power-servicing your Rohloff
« Reply #41 on: May 27, 2022, 06:55:34 PM »
Yesterday I gave my Birdy Rohloff its first oil change as I've had the bike a year although it's only clocked up 600 miles. First I sucked out about 10ml of black oil which had the consistency of treacle before adding the flushing oil. That, in turn, came out black with a metallic glint so I did a 2nd flush using about 10ml to help clean some more muck and then drained that out before adding the full 25ml of new oil. There were several trips up and down the local street mainly in 3rd and 5th gears after each addition of flushing oil.

Riding with a nearly new hub that has the occasional sticky gear shift and is noisy in low range reminds me how much these hubs improve once they've clocked up a few thousand miles and several oil changes. However, while the Birdy's suspension does a good job of smoothing out the worst road imperfections, it feels much more draggy than my other bikes. I suspect that one contributor to this drag is the dynamo and the always on lighting.

JohnR

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Re: Power-servicing your Rohloff
« Reply #42 on: June 10, 2022, 10:09:24 PM »
I did an oil change for another Rohloff hub today as it had done 2400 miles since an oil change last September. My attempt to drain some of the old oil before adding the cleaning oil came to nothing, after which 20ml of cleaning oil went in followed, after about 10 minutes of cycling the local street in mainly 3rd & 5th gears, by 20ml of filthy cleaning oil coming out. It's almost as if I didn't put enough oil in at the previous service. I added 20ml of new oil which will probably get changed before winter as I don't want to be trying to change the oil when it's cold.