Author Topic: Tools for non-techie?  (Read 6343 times)

jzdparis

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Tools for non-techie?
« on: May 03, 2017, 11:35:56 AM »
I have read some very interesting posts on the tools that some of you carry - but any ideas for someone who has no expertise?  I can dismantle and reassemble my bike for air travel, change a tyre, and do an oil change (most difficult thing was agonising over how tight to do up the drain screw!)  but that's it. I got a bit carried away when I bought my new Raven, and bought the Thorn tool kit (what's a few more £s?) but I'm a minimalist and I don't know how to use half the stuff on it.  Obviously I need the Allan keys for seat and handlebars, tyre levers ...I'd appreciate suggestions.

Thanks
Jane

mickeg

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Re: Tools for non-techie?
« Reply #1 on: May 03, 2017, 04:27:54 PM »
I assume we are talking the tools to carry on a multi-day tour, not just for a day trip.

Most of the more complete multi-tools have about the same collection of stuff.  So in that regard I would say one of those.  The larger ones have a chain tool and usually have an 8 mm and 10 mm open end or box wrench.  I like the Alien II and also like the Crank Bros M17, the Alien II is a bit bigger and heavier with a few more things on it.

A couple tire levers.

If you know how to use a spoke wrench, bring one but if you do not know how to use it you can leave it home. 

I like to carry some individual long ball end type Allen wrenches, 4 mm for most bolts on the bike, 5 mm for a couple items like the drop bar brake levers or brake cable bolts, either a 15 mm open end or a 6 mm long allen wrench for pedal removal.

If I am using my Nomad (with Rohloff), a 8 mm allen wrench and crank arm puller for crank arm removal (I have to pull off both crank arms to fit the bike in the S&S case), and I have the EX box on my Nomad so I need a T20 to change a cable.  Two 100mm long plastic drinking straws (end to end are 200 mm) and a small cable cutter if I have to change a gear cable. I carry the Rohloff sprocket removal tool, mostly because Thorn says you should but have never needed it on a tour and not sure why I would.  I do not carry the chain whip, if I was in that much trouble I would be at a bike shop that would have one.  And the S&S tool.  The 8 mm allen wrench on the big multitools does not have the length needed for leverage, thus I carry an individual wrench.

If I use one of my derailleur bikes instead of the Rohloff bike, a cassette puller and a short piece of old chain on some cord, plus the adjustable wrench so I can remove a cassette.  But if you do not know how to use a spoke wrench, this might not be of much use.

On some trips I have carried a large non-bike multi-tool like a Victorinox Swiss Champion or a Leatherman that has a pliers, but most trips leave that at home.

I do not go on trips long enough to need to change the oil in the Rohloff, so leave that stuff home.

I like to carry some disposable gloves like medical personnel use in case I have a messy repair so I can have reasonably clean hands after I am done.

I might have missed some things, here, this is what came to mind.

You did not ask about spares, just tools.  Thus I did not list spares.
« Last Edit: May 03, 2017, 04:30:03 PM by mickeg »

jzdparis

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Re: Tools for non-techie?
« Reply #2 on: May 03, 2017, 09:49:36 PM »
Thank you for the detailed reply.  Yes, it is a Rohloff, and yes, 4-6 week tours - but currently all in western countries.  But it comes back to my lack of expertise, so a spoke wrench is out because I think unless you know what you are doing you can make the problem worse (?) I also have an Ex box, but how likely am I to need to change a cable?  In an ideal world obviously I would know how to do all this kind of stuff but the reality is I don't -  learning a bit more (thank you YouTube!).  I didn't ask about spares, but I would be interested to know what you and others carry for spares?

Thanks
Jane

Andre Jute

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Re: Tools for non-techie?
« Reply #3 on: May 04, 2017, 02:19:47 AM »
Jane, first of all find the page in the Rohloff manual where they tell you which tools to carry, or at least list the sizes of the fasteners.

Basically my bike requires, including the Rohloff and cranks:
2, 2.5, 3, 4, 5, 6 and 8mm Allen (hex) keys or bits (see below)
T20 Torx key or bit (see below)
8 and 10mm open spanners or sockets, the 8mm a Rohloff requirement when a cable on the EXT box breaks

Tyre Pressure Gauge -- I like the BBB electronic oval one in black, but Park sells the same thing in blue

Rohloff's sprocket key, which I keep with the bike even though I don't expect to use it

Glueless tube patches from Topeak (like them) or Park (widely available) -- the size of a stamp

***

I don't carry chain tools because my chain has quicklinks and is anyway enclosed and trouble-free. I don't carry a spare tube because I went nine years without a flat and expect as soon as I fix a current slow leak to go another nine years without a flat. My German all-in-one toolkit, which is hardly bigger than a keychain charm, has tyre levers but I've never used them on my own bike on the road (I know they work because I used them on other people's bikes a few times).

I don't see why you should carry separate hex spanners or even a tool with a separate arm for each hex spanner. You can get tools with bits, which store the bits inside, which saves the weight of the many arms. The Topeak Tool Bar I use, made in Germany, weighs only 68 gr:

The Topeak Tool Bar I use: light, small, wonderful, currently a huge bargain at Rose Bikes https://www.rosebikes.de/artikel/topeak-toolbar/aid:23224

Something similar, with a ratchet, less likely to be lost than my miniature toolkit because it is so much larger:

Topeak Ratchet Rocket Lite, about twenty quid

SKS makes good tools; I have a good deal of SKS professional bike gear and it is all of the best possible everlasting quality, and much better priced than the boutique rubbish which is nowhere near the SKS engineering standard.

http://www.sks-germany.com/en/products/bit-worx/

SKS (above) and Knog both make interesting tools of the more familiar style. I once tried to buy one of these Knogs but couldn't find one of the top model (below); it's very compact and complete (except for the T20, which most multitools lack):


Or you can buy (try Banggood.com) a rubber holder for screwdriver bits (it's a strip of rubber with holes in it, less than a quid post-free) plus a small ratchet socket and bit kit at a hardware store or Lidl (mine was 20 Euro for the Faithful brand set), and put the bits you want in the rubber holder and elastic-band the small ratchet spanner to it with the elastic that holds your tyre levers to the other side. The small ratchet kit I have has an 8mm ring spanner on the end of the ratchet handle, normally used for storing the 8m Allan bit, so I'm set up to change Rohloff gears if I break a cable. This is the set I bought locally in Ireland, so it has European distribution:
VIDEO https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ir537JJYlIE

Most bikes, even custom ones with tubed-through, threaded holes for every fastener, have at least one or two nuts, for holding on the lamp through the top of the fork, and the mudguard through the chain stay brace. Usually these nuts are 10mm. So you need open flat or ring (check there is space!) spanners for these nuts. Draper makes, or used to make, a motor-trade-special small spanner called a "brake spanner", open format, 8x10mm, strong enough because forged rather than stamped but still flat and lightweight. The standard 8x10mm spanner you can buy at any motor factor is also called a "brake spanner" or a "bleeding spanner" (honest!) but has high sides for fat nuts that you might want ground down for weight saving on a bike -- the thing is, if you cannot find the attractively lightweight Draper, this specialist 8x10 spanner is available from a back street motor factor as near as your yellow pages.

The Torx bit or spanner you buy must be the best because if you strip the sockets on the bolts, the whole gearbox will have to go back to the factory to be fixed. SJS sells Rohloff's own Torx T20 spanner. I have a bit instead (best German quality made by Witte, special-ordered for me by an agreeable hardware merchant, ten euro for three, so that I can have one on each of my bikes). Never used it in ten years, but if you're on tour away from civilization, you don't want a third-world mechanic's cheap steel bit to wreck your Rohloff T20s, so you'd better have at least a small T20 bit of the best quality to put in his hand.
« Last Edit: May 07, 2017, 03:49:14 AM by Andre Jute »

mickeg

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Re: Tools for non-techie?
« Reply #4 on: May 04, 2017, 02:48:29 PM »
Spares - this is from recollection so I might have missed some.

A couple spare M5 bolts (water bottle cage, racks, etc.).  And a few nuts that fit on them too.  Maybe a spare M6 bolt in case your seatpost bolt breaks, but you often can use a stem cap bolt instead as your spare.  I bring one brake and one gear cable.  I usually bring one set of brake pads (for one wheel, not both).  Lube for my chain.  Some zip ties in case I need to attach something semi-permanent.  A shoe cleat bolt.  If on the Nomad which uses M6 bolts for racks and fenders, a couple spare M6 bolts.  Patch kit.  Two tubes.  On Thorns that have a bracket for a bottle generator on the fork, I carry my spare M5 bolts threaded into that bracket. 

I carry spare spokes, but some people instead use the fiber-fix thing (I do not recall exact name).  Even if you do not know how to true up a wheel, if you break a spoke and have your spokes you might find a cyclist that knows how to replace a spoke and true it up.  So, I think you should carry them even if you do not know how to install them.

I forgot to mention the pump with my list of tools.  I carry either a Road Morph G or a Lezyne Micro Floor Drive with gauge.

On the spoke wrench, yes if you do not know what you are doing you can make things worse.  I built up all my own wheels ever since I worked in a bike shop in the 70s.  Thus, I do my own work on everything.  Usually I would not advise bringing a spare if you do not know how to install it, but some bike shops do not stock all lengths of spokes, that is why I think they are useful to carry.

My spare spokes are in my seatpost, held in there with a wine cork.  The cork dried out and got looser so I put some electrical tape around it to make if fit tighter.  (Gives you an excuse to go out and buy a wine cork.)  Dan might chime in that he made a rubber stopper thingy for his spoke retainer in the seatpost instead of the wine cork.

Most cyclists do not know how to true up a wheel.  Do not worry if you do not know, you are in the majority.

Pavel

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Re: Tools for non-techie?
« Reply #5 on: May 04, 2017, 04:16:03 PM »
Interesting that my kit is much like mickeg. I too don't bother with the chain tool for the same reason as Andre and I leave the bottom bracket adjustment tool at home.  One thing I find marvelous about the Rohloff is that you can run a chain that is ridiculously stretched, which on a derailleur bike would be beyond use. So I never adjust the bottom bracket, I simply replace the chain at about 2,500 miles.

I carry a spoke tool and four spare spokes or six spares for the derailleur bike, but have never yet used the wrench.  One bit of good advice I'm sure all here will agree on is that it is sound investment to have a well built wheel - and you've already taken care of that.  Much better than a chest of tools.

I like to carry spare a spare inner as well as patches and take quick fill CO2 cartriges as well as a small pump. Just as mickg mentions, I too carry spare stainless steel bolts and a few washers and I like to carry a few Ahead stem spacers.  They don't take much room, and I can imagine losing one on a lonely road on a dark and stormy night. :)

After seeing one British gent take ultra light front panniers on his bike across the US tour, I noticed the wisdom of duck tape (it is Duck tape ... not Duct tape btw ;) ) and carry just a bit. He needed about five pounds of it wrapped around and around again, on his torn ultra-light (?) bags.  Duck tape is sort of the aspirin of repairs. 

I've not gotten around to it, but would like to upgrade my Rohloff to the new sprocket sytem.  It would be crazy to carry a sprocket whip, but I did see one guy stranded for the want of one.  He had a deraileur system and broke two spokes on the freewheel side and could not repair it until he took his sprocket off.  It ruined his trip.  That's not going to happen on your bike but on a long trip having a rear cog might be nice insurance or even to be able to change up or down the rear sprocket size, perhaps?

I carry two torx tools, one as already mentioned and my front dyno headlight is tightened by Torx (a different size of course - not a great idea, but I've not changed it yet) And of course there is a small bottle of chain lube.

I make sure I always have my Brook saddle adjustment tool on long trips. I also always carry a spare watch battery for my Petzl head flash-light, and of course one of the most important tools is my spare bottle opener.   

geocycle

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Re: Tools for non-techie?
« Reply #6 on: May 04, 2017, 08:41:11 PM »
For day rides I have a thorn multi tool which has the t20 torx suitable for rohloff. I've never used until this weekend when I came across a cyclist with a broken chain. The chain tool saved her tour. Recommended.
 

mickeg

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Re: Tools for non-techie?
« Reply #7 on: May 04, 2017, 10:44:20 PM »
... It would be crazy to carry a sprocket whip, but I did see one guy stranded for the want of one.  He had a deraileur system and broke two spokes on the freewheel side and could not repair it until he took his sprocket off.  It ruined his trip.  ...

In my list of tools, I said:
If I use one of my derailleur bikes instead of the Rohloff bike, a cassette puller and a short piece of old chain on some cord, plus the adjustable wrench so I can remove a cassette.  But if you do not know how to use a spoke wrench, this might not be of much use.

On another forum, I described how you could remove a cassette without a chain whip, that is why the short piece of cord and a piece of chain.  More at this link (on this other forum I am Tourist in MSN):
http://www.bikeforums.net/touring/805202-chain-whip-travel.html

There are some other tools that can be used to loosen a cassette by leveraging against the frame, but I have never used one.  But if anyone is interested, some of the people that responded to the above link described some of those options.  I wrote that piece five years ago, but nothing has really changed.

The cassette removal tool in the photo at the above link, I also filed two of the wrench flats down a little bit.  The adjustable wrench was not quite big enough and that is why I filed down two flats, to make the tool small enough so that the wrench would fit on it.

But, if you wanted to remove a Rohloff sprocket, you will need a REAL chain whip, not the bit of cord and bit of chain that I described that I could use to pull a cassette.  As I noted above, if I wanted to remove my Rohloff sprocket I probably would be at a bike shop.  Thus I should be able to use their chain whip.  I still use the threaded on Rohloff sprockets, not splined ones.

First photo, the wrench and chain whip I use to pull a Rohloff sprocket, these are a bit heavy to carry on a tour so they stay at home.  But the Rohloff tool that is used for that, I carry it because a lot of bike shops would not have it.

Second and third photos, tools and spares that I brought to Iceland.  Exception, I did not bring the crank arm puller to Iceland, instead I had the self extractors installed on my crank arms.  But, unfortunately one of them self extracted on the road and I wished I had brought a regular puller.  Thus, a regular puller is in the photo and goes on future trips.  The black triangular bag in one of the photos held the other stuff in that photo, two tubes, a patch kit, two tire levers, some disposable gloves and a mini multi-tool that came in handy if I wanted to quickly access it for a quick adjustment.

Tools are heavy, other than the stuff in the triangular bag, my tools and spares were in the bottom of a pannier.  Exception, pump was mounted on the frame.

Spare tire was also in the bottom of a pannier.  I forgot to mention that sometimes I carry a spare tire.  Spare tire is a really light weight one.  The purpose of a spare tire is not to last for a massive amount of miles if one of my other tires fails.  Instead the purpose of a spare tire is to get me to a bike shop where I can buy a better tire to put on the wheel.  Thus the spare is lighter and narrower than I would normally have on the bike because its purpose is for short distance.
« Last Edit: May 04, 2017, 10:49:19 PM by mickeg »

IanW

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Re: Tools for non-techie?
« Reply #8 on: May 05, 2017, 10:18:10 PM »
What I carry in the way of tools varies and depends on:
how far the ride is;
how rough the terrain is;
and how many other bicycles / cyclists I might want to / need to assist;
whether the ride includes any night-time riding.

1) The minimum is: pump (presta + schraeder), spare inner tube (35-559 for my bike)
    and tools (Pitlock skewer key + Lezyne Sabre combined tyre-lever + 14mm spanner + 1 additional tyre-lever)
    needed to remove a wheel/tyre. These live with / carried on the bike.

2) Minimal addition to this is a set of allen keys (actually a 1/4" hex holder and individual hex-bits)
    and 8mm/10mm and 14mm/15mm open-ended spanners.

3) Further addition is a good 6-inch adjustable spanner. Heavy, I know, but so universally useful for various straightening things tasks and to help others.

4) Other size spare inner-tube (25-622) and puncture repair kit
    to be able to help someone else as not everyone has a 26" wheeled RST.

5) Then chain-emergency kit: chain-tool, quick-links, a couple of ordinary links and maybe small pliers or dedicated quick-link pliers.

6) Then Rohloff sprocket tool, Rohloff EBB adjusting tool and crank extractor
    (and see 6" adjustable or 14mm o/e spanner above).
    Rohloff sprocket tool, in particular, as local bicycle shop may not have one.

After this point I am into serious expedition mode which includes:
spare brake and gear cable inners including Rohloff internal gear-change pre-cut,
spare nuts, bolts, spokes and spoke key,
tyre-boot and/or spare folding tyre,
oil, grease + thin rubber gloves,
first-aid kit including water, pain-killers and chocolate (you'd be surprised how many cyclist-themselves-breakdowns are recoverable with these),
zip-ties and thin garden tying wire,

Beyond this point I would want chain-whip, big adjustable spanner and probably the kitchen sink too.

Finally I have yet to figure out the best place within the above list that I would want a torch and more probably a head-torch just in case the presumed "emergency" goes down at night.

jzdparis

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Re: Tools for non-techie?
« Reply #9 on: May 06, 2017, 11:34:18 AM »
Thank you for the great  details - quite a lot of consensus here.  Wished I'd asked this question last year before I bought the Thorn multi-tool as I think I would have followed some of Andre's ideas as I find the Allen keys on the multi- tool just too small and fiddly, and it's also relatively heavy if I am not going to be using many of them.  Will have to decide in the next 24 hours.... Quite reassuring about the spokes though.  I suppose it's a lot to do with how much expertise/ passion for fixing the bike one has, balanced with how much things weigh. It's very easy to think "I'll take this, and this, and oh well I might as well take this too" and so the kilos creep up ...I agree with Ian though that chocolate fixes a lot of things - but I'd also hope that I'd meet Mickeg along the way if I did have problems!

The duck/duct tape word choice is interesting - I used to think it was just a pronunciation thing but I believe that "Duck" was the original brand name (as in water off a duck's back)

Andre Jute

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Re: Tools for non-techie?
« Reply #10 on: May 07, 2017, 03:47:38 AM »
The duck/duct tape word choice is interesting - I used to think it was just a pronunciation thing but I believe that "Duck" was the original brand name (as in water off a duck's back)

It's tape for winding around joints in ducts. Americans avoid the duct/duck problem by calling it "200 mile tape" after the NASCAR usage of keeping racing cars together with duct tape.

Pavel

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Re: Tools for non-techie?
« Reply #11 on: May 07, 2017, 05:01:37 AM »
it is called Duck tape, because it was made from cotton "duck".

"History and etymology[edit]
The first material called "duck tape" was long strips of plain cotton duck cloth used in making shoes stronger, for decoration on clothing, and for wrapping steel cables or electrical conductors to protect them from corrosion or wear.[3] For instance, in 1902, steel cables supporting the Manhattan Bridge were first covered in linseed oil then wrapped in duck tape before being laid in place.[4] In the 1910s, certain boots and shoes used canvas duck fabric for the upper or for the insole, and duck tape was sometimes sewn in for reinforcement.[5] In 1936, the US-based Insulated Power Cables Engineers Association specified a wrapping of duck tape as one of many methods used to protect rubber-insulated power cables.[6] In 1942, Gimbel's department store offered venetian blinds that were held together with vertical strips of duck tape.[7] All of these foregoing uses were for plain cotton or linen tape that came without a layer of applied adhesive."
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"The product now commonly called duct tape should not be confused with special tapes actually designed for sealing heating and ventilation (HVAC) ducts, though these tapes may also be called "duct tapes."