The Independent: GPS best of, allegedly

[in4]

http://www.independent.co.uk/extras/indybest/outdoor-activity/cycling/best-gps-cycle-computer-under-100-with-maps-wireless-budget-a7609086.html

Of course if you know different...!

[mickeg]

I am not saying that the cited article is wrong in any way, but I like a GPS that I can use for backpacking and other activities.  Thus, I prefer a GPS that operates on AA batteries.

The Garmin 64 has been out for a while now, but I only recently learned that you can put NiMH rechargeable batteries in it and you can charge those batteries with a USB charge cord to the GPS.  The 64 series replaced the 62 series, and I already owned a Garmin 62S, so I was a bit bummed to learn that I should have waited for the 64 to come out instead of buying the 62S when I did.

I should clarify when I said it can charge AA batteries.  The Garmin 64 can be operated with a Garmin branded battery pack that consists of two NiMH batteries.  Putting that battery pack into the Garmin 64 presses down on a button that tells the Garmin that the battery pack is installed.  But, if you use a small piece of plastic or metal to press down on that button, you can fool the Garmin into charging your NiMH AA batteries with the USB cable.  (The USB cable is a mini USB, not a micro USB cable however.)

I bought the 64 and used it on my recent Florida tour.  The Garmin appears to be somewhat picky on the electrical supply, it would not operate on my SineWave Revolution directly.  But if I put a cache battery into the circuit it worked fine.  In this case, the dynohub powers the SineWave, the output from the SineWave was input into a small powerbank while simultaneously drawing power out of that powerbank to feed into the GPS.  It did not take long for me to charge the AA batteries in the GPS, then I could start charging up other devices instead.

When charging the AA batteries, the screen stays on.  But I have the Garmin configured to time out the screen after 30 seconds, so if I am not charging the batteries, then I have to push a button on it to turn on the screen when I want to look at it.

Regarding maps, I have a really big Micro SD memory card that I downloaded free maps off of the internet for all of USA, Canada and Europe to put into my GPS. 

I have the cheapest of the Garmin 64 models, no built in compass, no pressure sensor and minimal built in maps.

The Garmin 64 does routing if you have installed maps in it that are capable of routing.  But there are several options for routing, and there are advantages and disadvantages to each method, but that is beyond the scope of this discussion.

I think that the low discharge NiMH batteries (includes Eneloops) have slightly more voltage than the regular NiMH AA batteries, but for this last trip I used regular NiMH batteries.  But I plan to switch to only the low discharge ones in the future.

I will probably continue to use my ten plus year old GPS units that have a black and white screen for paddling (kayak and canoe trips) because the black and white screen stays on yet it has a long battery life.  Paddling where I have both hands busy holding the paddle would make reaching for a button to turn on the screen most inconvenient.  That is the one aspect to the Garmin 64 that I find lacking.  If I instead configured the 64 to keep the screen on at all times, the battery life would become unacceptable.
 
Photo is of my Garmin 64 on a DIY bracket that I have attached with the stem cap bolt, this photo is from my Florida trip last month.  On top of my handlebar bag bracket you can see a copper colored cylinder, that is the cache battery that I have in the circuit.  And on top of that cache battery is a small white thing with wires coming out of it, that is an amp meter that tells me how many milliamps I am putting into my cache battery in real time.

Second photo, I have a small piece of tape holding my Micro SD card in because the metal keeper was a bit loose.  And I have a piece of metal that I cut from the lid from a food can wrapped with black electrical tape and a piece of tape that holds that in place.  That metal is the piece that holds the button down when I put NiMH AA batteries in.

I used my Sherpa for this trip, not the Nomad, that is why you see bar end shifters in the photo.

[in4]

Many thanks for posting Mickeg. Coincidentally I was in a Cash Converter store yesterday and spotted a Garmin 62s for sale, at A $265. I thought I might do a little research on it so your comments are very welcome. I like the idea of a GPS I can use off the bike, for hiking etc.

[Danneaux]

I am not saying that the cited article is wrong in any way, but I like a GPS that I can use for backpacking and other activities.  Thus, I prefer a GPS that operates on AA batteries.

Nicely said; 'took the words right out of my mouth, mickeg! 

For the same reasons, I prefer my (former) Garmin Oregon 400T and (present) 600T.

I just wish...
1) Garmin's GUI/menu structure wasn't so...unusual and at variance with other kinds of electronic devices.
2) Garmin would (in my experience) actively support their products with software updates and replacement parts/repairs beyond roughly 4 years past their introduction.
3) Garmin would make their hiking GPS power button covers replaceable instead of molded in as part of the case surround. After about (again) 4 years of UV exposure, the button covers crack and then open, making the GPS vulnerable to water and dust ingress and impossible to power on without the use of a sharp stick found roadside (to reach in and poke the board-mounted power switch). There's a guy in Russia who has come up with a cover you can super-glue on, so I'll try that next.

One last thing to add...

I use Eneloop XX high-capacity AA cells in my Garmin. With those and careful selection of the power-setting options, I find I can use it for track-recording up to a maximum of 17 hours continuously. I then swap in another set of Eneloop XXs and put the flat ones in to charge overnight from my solar panel's accumulator battery and they in turn are swapped in the next night.

Best,

Dan.

[mickeg]

Many thanks for posting Mickeg. Coincidentally I was in a Cash Converter store yesterday and spotted a Garmin 62s for sale, at A $265. I thought I might do a little research on it so your comments are very welcome. I like the idea of a GPS I can use off the bike, for hiking etc.

That 62S you looked at, that can't be used to charge NiMH batteries.  I have a 62S that I now am wondering what to do with it since the new 64 that I bought will serve similar purposes.  I think I paid about $250 (USD) for my 62S when I bought it new, it was on a clearance price because the store was clearing out the old to make room for the 64 series.

I bought the 64 on Ebay for about $180 (I do not recall if I also paid for shipping).  It was new in factory wrapping and sold by a company that was selling new GPS units and accessories.  It was usually priced higher, but I saw it at that price and jumped on it before someone else did.

I would not be surprised if REI has some GPS units on sale within the next two months.  They usually have a good sale in May and usually include a 20 percent off one full price item coupon with that sale.

I think the 62 and 64 has a softer plastic screen than their older black and white screen GPS units.  I have some deep scratches in my 62S.  Since then I have used a piece of clear packing tape on my 62S and on my 64 screen as a preventative measure.

Good luck with your decision.

[lewis noble]

This thread reminds me of a personal problem I have - don't worry, guys, not too personal . . .

Christmas 2015, my wife gave me a Garmin Edge 1000. With the long reach bar mounted holder.  Top of the range kit. It measures all the usual parameters, has maps loaded, also heart rate, cadence, whether your flies are done up, shoe lace tension, etc. At the time, I was planning / talking about my ride through France, Dilys spoke to a roadie friend about what I needed, who said I needed a device that would show the route to follow, etc etc. He just has different needs to me.

I have never liked it. I found it difficult to programme (my problem, not the device I am sure), and much prefer maps so I can study the landscape, think about the geology, history etc.  I carried it in France but never used it, Windows phone helped me out in urban areas looking for streets, hostels etc.  It eventually froze and was replaced by Garmin.

If anyone is interested, pm me.

Long live Ordnance Survey! and laminated maps!

Lewis

I want to get rid. If someone on here has an interest, that would help me open delicate discussions with my wife about selling an expensive bit of kit which was a present, and the money would go to a Himalayan village charity of which she is a Trustee.

[Matt2matt2002]

Mickeg
Do you think that battery recharging trick would work on my Etrex20x?
I use rechargable batteries but charge them outside the unit.
I have not been able to find a Garmin rechargable battery unit that is promoted for the Etrex20. So maybe there isn't the ' catch' inside that comes in the unit you mention.

Fwiw I like the Etrex20 for geocashing but find it of limited value for bike road touring.
For one thing, the screen is quite small and my eyes are old.
If I do buy something else, I'll make sure the screen is bigger.

[mickeg]

Mickeg
Do you think that battery recharging trick would work on my Etrex20x?
...

I doubt it but you could check the manual for that GPS, it should say if you can charge a Garmin branded battery pack inside it with a USB charger.

This is the battery pack that was intended to be charged within the Garmin 64.  (The button trick essentially fools the GPS into thinking this battery pack is installed.)
https://www.thegpsstore.com/Garmin-Rechargeable-Battery-Pack-P4054.aspx

Note that it states:
Garmin Rechargeable Battery Pack for the Oregon 600, 700, 750, 750t and GPSMAP 64 Series

[John Saxby]

Matt, I use 2 AA's (Eneloop, recommended by Dan) with my ETrex20.  Haven't seen any reference of a battery pack. I have the same problem as you with the small screen, so I use as large a scale as poss, relying on a paper map to give me the bigger picture.

PS edit: Whoops, missed the 'x' after your eTrex20

[Danneaux]

[EDIT: Sorry, replies came in while I took a break to finish sealing some cabinetry. Hopefully something below will still be useful...]

Do you think that battery recharging trick would work on my Etrex20x?

Hi Matt! I realized you addressed your question to mickeg, but I hope he won't mind if I take a stab at it.

While I don't have your Etrex20x model, I do know that on my Oregon 600t, Garmin offers a rechargeable battery pack. However, with many high-capacity Eneloop XX/Eneloop Pro cells in reserve, I preferred to use them.

Before going further, I should really stress that Garmin actively discourages the use of rechargeable batteries other than their own. On my unit, they very explicitly warn:

NOTICE! Do not attempt to use the device to charge a battery that was not provided by GarminŽ. Attempting to charge a battery that was not provided by Garmin can damage the device and void the warranty.

Source: http://www8.garmin.com/manuals/webhelp/oregon6xx/EN-US/GUID-3954A785-E19A-4195-A79A-BA05FA168A9D.html

If you try the following, you're on your own if problems develop. Although I've had success, I can't endorse the method.

Open the battery compartment on your Garmin and look to see if there is a black rubber button under the batteries (photo below). It is an interlock switch  depressed by the original Garmin rechargeable battery pack. When depressed, it tells the unit to allow recharging of suitable batteries. It is possible to take a bit of stiff plastic (as used on battery blister-packaging) and place it under some Eneloops to allow charging. You can see how the Garmin pack depresses the button here: http://www8.garmin.com/manuals/webhelp/oregon6xx/EN-US/GUID-02E8CDAE-3929-43C6-91F2-9A9EF759EB80.html
It works, but should it?

Well...
1) You're going against Garmin's express recommendations, so if something goes wrong you may end up with an inoperable unit. It is now a technique commonly in use, but if Garmin figures out why, you'll lose your warranty coverage.
2) I determined it was worth the risk, tried it, and had no bad result to date.
3) The Garmin's internal circuitry is painfully slow compared to (Sanyo, now Panasonic) Eneloop chargers, so after all this, I prefer to use my Eneloop USB AA/AAA chargers instead and simply swap in new pairs of charged batteries. However, when coming toward the end of a charge, I have used this dodge to plug in my external battery pack or solar panel's accumulator battery and so get a bit more tracking done at the end of long days in the saddle (with careful management of screen options and a fresh pair of Eneloop XX/Pro AA cells, I have managed 17 hours of continuous tracking). My on-bike charging setups don't put out enough juice to simultaneously power *and* charge my Oregon 600T.

Regardless of which batteries you use, be sure to select the appropriate power option from your Garmin menu so you can maximize displayed battery life. Most Garmin units allow you to select between Alkaline (disposable), lithium (disposable, good for cold weather), or lithium-ion (rechargeable) batteries. Battery options may vary by model. Making the appropriate selection really does make a difference to overall displayed battery life.

Long term, Garmin's battery tabs sometimes fracture with frequent battery changes (metal fatigue, it has happened to me early on with my 400T). The trick to avoid this is to insert the battery's positive (+) pole first, the opposite of usual practice.

Circling back to your original question, Matt, if your eTrex lacks the rubber button under the batteries (I think it is missing for yours), it is unlikely you'll be able to charge batteries in the unit. A preferable way to do it would be to charge the batteries externally and perhaps power your GPS while underway using a buffer/cache battery to maintain power while stopped briefly or riding too slowly to maintain an adequate charge (and to avoid having to manually reset the GPS). The layout is like this: Hub dynamo > charging unit > buffer battery > GPS.

Best,

Dan.

[Matt2matt2002]

Thanks folks.
No hidden button, I'm affraid.
Good tips. Plenty to play around with.
Matt

[mickeg]

...
Regardless of which batteries you use, be sure to select the appropriate power option from your Garmin menu so you can maximize battery life. Most Garmin units allow you to select between Alkaline (diosposable), lithium (disposable, good for cold weather), or lithium-ion (rechargeable) batteries. Making the appropriate selection really does make a difference to overall battery life.
...

I think this is incorrect, I believe that the GPS will draw the amount of power it wants to draw regardless of which setting you used for battery type.  I think that battery type setting is only to let the GPS know which performance curve it should use when it tells you in a little bar chart how much battery life you have remaining.

The Garmin 64 has a setting for low discharge NiMH and regular NiMH.  My previous GPS units only had one NiMH setting. 

With the button pushed, it assumes the Garmin branded battery pack is in place, thus you can't change the setting.  The battery pack is a low discharge NiMH battery pack, thus it should have a performance curve similar to Eneloops.

You can change battery life settings, some GPS units have a battery save mode that reduces how often it gets a fix, I always use the battery save mode.  My Garmin 64 is my only GPS that will use both USA satellites and the Russian satellites.  I do not know if I am saving power by not using the Russian satellites, but I turned them off thinking that I might save some power.  I also turned off WAAS correction which uses a small amount of power.  I also set my screen to time out quite quickly because the backlight uses a lot of power.  (While charging, the screen stays on however.)  Screen brightness, I usually just leave it set on high but for better battery life I should set that to as dim as I can get by with.

I was trying to figure out the difference in performance curves for low discharge and regular NiMH batteries.  I pulled the attached graphics off the internet some months ago and saved.  I did not keep track of the internet sites where I got the graphics.  (I hope by posting these that I am not violating forum or copyright rules.)  From the graphs it appears that the Eneloops (and I assume the other brands of low discharge NiMH batteries) run a slightly higher voltage than regular NiMH batteries.    Thus, I plan to use low discharge in the future.  (I have lots of batteries of both types, some are over 10 years old.)

The reason that I am using my Garmin 64 as my battery charger for AA batteries is that I did not have much luck keeping my AA batteries charged with Eneloop battery chargers on my Iceland trip.  (I have different Eneloop chargers than Dan has, but I assume they work the same.)  I think that at least half of the power I put into the battery charger did not actually get used in the GPS unit.  When you charge or later discharge batteries, they generate heat.  That heat is wasted power.  But on my last trip I found that I could start each morning with my GPS plugged in to top off the batteries that were in it.  It would beep later if they were fully charged, at which time I unplugged the GPS and it started working on battery.  Then I could switch to charging a cell phone or camera battery or a powerbank for the rest of the day.  A couple days I did not charge anything.

I did make one mistake on my last trip.  My taillights use AAA batteries.  I brought some AAA to AA adapters thinking that I could charge my AAA batteries in the Garmin, but I did not try it at home first.  The adapters I brought did not fit in the Garmin very well, so AAA charging did not work.  When I got home I found that I had some other adapters that will fit, so I will make sure I bring the right adapters in the future.  Charging AAA batteries too fast is a possibility this way, but if I reduce their lifespan, I won't get too upset.

My most recent trip I was self sufficient for electricity.  I brought two powerbanks as backup and never used them.  And I never plugged into an outlet at a campground or restaurant for power.  This was my first self sufficient trip when it comes to electronics.

[Danneaux]

I wrote...

Regardless of which batteries you use, be sure to select the appropriate power option from your Garmin menu so you can maximize battery life. Most Garmin units allow you to select between Alkaline (diosposable), lithium (disposable, good for cold weather), or lithium-ion (rechargeable) batteries. Making the appropriate selection really does make a difference to overall battery life.

...and mickeg opined...

I think this is incorrect, I believe that the GPS will draw the amount of power it wants to draw regardless of which setting you used for battery type.  I think that battery type setting is only to let the GPS know which performance curve it should use when it tells you in a little bar chart how much battery life you have remaining.

Nice catch, mickeg; thanks. The word "displayed" didn't make the trip when I cut-and-pasted my reply. Edited to correct the omission.

All the best,

Dan.