Author Topic: INNERTUBE FAILINGS  (Read 7964 times)

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INNERTUBE FAILINGS
« on: June 27, 2013, 05:20:36 AM »
Hi, everyone, we have cut short our summer tour, ///more than one reason, BUT one important problem, INNER tubes splitting on the inside seam at the Bottom,
I have tried all sort of rim tapes , CORRECT size and fitted, the last one I bought in a supper bike shop in Italy, I was assured that the GEAX, tape would not stretch they don't, He used them in all his mountain biking with no problems , TWICE in a few klm the rear tyre on our tandem went flat ,same problem, AND ALSO the tyre comes off the rim, Luckily not the FRONT wheel,
NOW is it the tyre, to big a SWALBE green liner Marathon, 26x1.75 ????never had this before with standard Marathon, s on Rigida Andra 26inch 19x 559, these I rate very highly and have done thousands of km, on them
???????????????is it the tyres to big,1.75, the rim undersized, OR just bad luck with the inner tubes Continental, Geax, all makes,  NO slits in the rime tape
any suggestions would be welcome,
PS inflation was at 3bar now I have increased to 4bar,
regards BEN

Andybg

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Re: INNERTUBE FAILINGS
« Reply #1 on: June 27, 2013, 05:57:06 AM »
Hi Ben

Sorry to hear you have had so much trouble. I have the same size tyres as you and run 4 bar in the rear tyre and have had no issues. We have a combined weight of 200kg and poor road quality so that seems the best mix for us for comfort and reliability. It certainly sounds like you have some issue rather than it being just a run of bad luck but I cannot see any obvious issues in your choice of components. All I can think of is either a loose spoke or seating or any chance of the wheel over heating and causing failure that way?

Hope you can get this sorted out soon and back on the road.

Andy

Danneaux

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Re: INNERTUBE FAILINGS
« Reply #2 on: June 27, 2013, 06:26:57 AM »
Hi Ben!

I am so sorry these innertube problems have contributed to shortening your summer tour -- how very disappointing!

From what you've written, I gather this is the first time you've had the tube/tire problem on this bike's Rigida Andras in thousands of kilometers, correct?

If the rims have already proven reliable, then I would suspect these tires are slightly large in diameter and this is why it is rolling off the rim. If the rims are new,then I would suspect them of being undersized, as the majority of Schwalbe tires tend to fit tight at the beads, if anything. Tires can roll off rims for other reasons, too, including using too wide a tire on too narrow a rim at too low a pressure. The 1.75" tires on your Andra rims are not a mismatch, so I think you're okay there.

If the tires and rims are both sized to spec, then your problems are due to another source.

As for the tubes...here are some suggestions:
• If you haven't already, try new, fresh tubes of a different brand. Old rubber tubes seem more prone to tearing in my experience, especially if they feel a bit soft and soggy to the touch.
• Check to make sure the rim strip is matched to the rim in *width*. Oddly, I've found many rim strips seem to just miss it for width with Rigida Andras. If they're a bit narrow, the strip can squirm on the rim and cause the tire bead to seat unevenly, contributing to tire and tube problems. I have occasionally gone to a rim strip that fits from the inside of one rim wall to the other, spanning the entire gap. This also has the effect of slightly increasing the diameter of the rim's bead-seat, a help if you have a loose-fitting tire/rim combo.
• Check for rim burrs at the edge of the rim strip if the strip is less than full-width. A longitudinal burr can open up a pressurized tube in much the same way one would use a knife to gut a fish. A slightly too-wide rim strip can do this too, as the reinforced edge can curl up just enough to slice the tube. I've had it happen myself some years ago with a very stiff polypropylene rim strip.

I suspect a pressure problem is contributing to both the tube and tire-retention issues. The rear wheel is the most heavily laden, and this is true in spades for a loaded touring tandem. A goodly amount of torque is required to get the loaded bike going as well, and it is possible to spin the rim inside the tire under starting load -- I've done it when my Dutch touring buddy came stateside and we put some effort into it starting uphill when tire pressures were a bit low. When this happens, the tube -- which is anchored at the valve stem -- pulls a bit as well, and it is possible to open a rent on the rim side of the tube. Worth a check. I think you're on track increasing pressures toward 4bar in a 1.75 tire. That can be pushing it a bit for rim safety in a 2.0 tire, but with two people's weight and a heavy load on a tandem? A bit marginal for a 1.75, methinks. Underinflation can also be a culprit in the tire rolling off, so again I think you're heading the right direction increasing pressure by 1bar.

Now it it at 4bar...are you still having a problem?

If it were me, I'd try the 4bar solution first, then if that doesn't work, I'd swap the tires front to back only for the purposes of checking fit. If the front tire fits snugly on the rear rim and the rear tire is loose on the front rim, then you'll know if the rear tire is oversized or the rear rim is undersized. Of course, if the rear tire fits loosely on the front, don't ride it. A front tire roll-off can be deadly as the tire not only rolls off the rim, it can easily pack up against the brake pad, locking the front wheel as you lose steering control. The result is never pretty.

Others will be along soon with their own equally good ideas, Ben, one of the huge benefits of crowd-sourcing the solution to a problem here on this Forum where the members comprise the greatest resource.

I do so hope you can find the answer soon so you can at least get back on the bike. Perhaps several shorter tours might be possible even if the longer tour isn't in the cards.

Best,

Dan.

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Re: INNERTUBE FAILINGS
« Reply #3 on: June 27, 2013, 07:37:39 AM »
Thanks fella,s for your suggestions, NO loose spokes and I have fill the spoke holes with corks and leveled, this I fell make,s a protection to stop rim tapes from splitting under high pressure, ,as I used to do with tubular rims before applying cement
inner tubes are new and NEVER EVER use a tube with patches on the front wheel
BEN

robert-S

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Re: INNERTUBE FAILINGS
« Reply #4 on: June 27, 2013, 08:13:02 AM »
The only times I've had inner tubes split has been when the tyre has either not been seated correctly, leaving the inner tube bulging out from the tyre bead (on narrow racing clinchers), or where the tyre has popped off the rim. The latter has happened twice on steep descents on a touring tandem, with the consequent overheating from braking. Whenever I've had punctures due to spokes poking through rim tape, these have been more like regular punctures than splits.

I'd agree with an earlier poster and be inclined to blame poorly fitting tyres, either because the tyre is slightly too big or the rim slightly too small. One other possibility is that the rim sidewall is failing in some way.

Robert

pdamm

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Re: INNERTUBE FAILINGS
« Reply #5 on: June 28, 2013, 04:12:45 AM »
Another thought Ben, are the tubes the right size for the tyre?  Tubes that are too small will be under tension when inflated inside the tyre and this can cause them to fail when they rub against any irregularly inside the tyre and rim.

Peter
 

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Re: INNERTUBE FAILINGS
« Reply #6 on: June 28, 2013, 06:05:46 AM »
Hi all, a friend has made a comment about the RIMS, ANDRA have a deep well, ???would a extrA rim tape help, when I had a touring caravan years ago I had fitted some special rim fillers to stop the van tyre coming off the ,I saw some pretty vivid videos with explosive charges set to go off at 70mph and the  c/van staYd straight and true with NO failing,
I may just try this , ?????what do you think      BEN

jags

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Re: INNERTUBE FAILINGS
« Reply #7 on: June 28, 2013, 02:21:49 PM »
Nothing beats a try as the man said. ;)
try sprinkling talcom powder on the inside of the rim so as the tude doesnt become sticky helps it float.
sounds crazy but it works .