Thorn Nomad X 590M

[in4]

Of some provenance too! :

 http://www.sjscycles.co.uk/thorn-nomad-x-590m-matt-black-rohloff-hub-bike-ex-andy-blance-prod30724/

Not mine ( I wish! )

[brummie]

Having read the description if I were Andy I'd sack the person who described him as having average arms & legs.

[Matt2matt2002]

I think it is Fiona with the average arms and legs.
I wonder if everything else is average?
I think we need to know.

[in4]

Just a contextual thought to share: I was wondering about the second-hand value of bikes,  some of which appear on our forum from time to time. Perhaps not the best analogy to seek to draw but I was minded to consider the depreciation of cars and the depreciation of bikes. Do some some bikes devalue in the same way as some cars do? Do some devalue as soon as they leave the showroom by a certain % and then plateau off? Does the value of some plummet like a stone whilst others retain a high residual value for many years. I dare say there is a certain cache to certain brands that ensure a higher residual value, similarly perhaps bikes of a certain provenance have extra value. Determining second-hand values is clearly not an exact science, How much would you pay ( as a proportion of its new value ) for a previously enjoyed steed.
I was minded to reflect on a chap who paid over £3k for nice bike, rode it very little indeed for a couple of months  and couldn't sell it without taking a + 20% hit on it. Ouch!

[jags]

i sold my look recently stunning bike in prestine condition i paid near enough 3 grand for it sold it for 1200 euro.as soon as they leave the shop  its second hand no matter how valueable you might think its worth you will loose a lot of money so hold onto it .

[Danneaux]

Ian, jags,

A local car dealer has a wonderful tagline on his television adverts:

"Everyone drives a used car".

S'truth; as soon as it leaves the lot after a sale, it is used and can never be sold as new again for new prices. Same with bikes, I've found. I lusted after a Thorn for years, the initial purchase price out of reach for me. I used to pine over the eBay.co.uk listings, where they looked like such bargains to me compared to new, but -- alas -- nary a buyer would consider overseas sales or shipping.

Sometimes, old bikes -- like old cars -- do appreciate as collector's items, and older things come new again, but for practical purposes, the prices trend downward. Part of it is parts availability and evolving standards. There is a perception that 9-sp drivetrains are "better" than 7-sp else we'd still have 7-sp...when in fact, it is almost impossible here'bouts to get replacement 7-sp cassettes. I have some lovely older bikes I might consider selling, but they have rear drops spaced at 120mm OLN, and would have to be spread (i.e. coldset or "bent") to take more modern gear. No one wants them with the very nice freewheel drivetrains they currently sport. While the new/modern equivalent of one of my bikes is easily worth USD$3,000, as a practical matter I'd be lucky to get USD$150, so I hang onto it. Not worth selling at that price, and it is still worth at least $150 to me (complete with its Phil Wood pedals [yes, they made pedals at one time], BB, and hubs).

This is why many older bikes here get parted out on eBay. The frame and parts sold apart from each other are worth more than the assembled lot. Sad, but true.

Ian, take a look at this thread: http://www.thorncycles.co.uk/forums/index.php?topic=4983.0 for more on the topic of second-hand value. I found Honesty's post on the topic to be a real revelation: http://www.thorncycles.co.uk/forums/index.php?topic=4983.msg26211#msg26211

All the best,

Dan.

[ianshearin]

I looked at that bike and drooled, it is the exact size I am after and except for a front dyno hub and a front rack is what my bike will be when I eventually order it.

However to put the perspective of a newbie in this arena of touring enthusiasts....

A new bike ordered from Thorn with the kit I want on it will cost around 2.5k, with the bike up for sale being offerd at 2k and with a few things adding I would be looking at 2.2k.

So all in all for me I would save in the region of around £300, that just isnt enough of a saving.
The joy of reading the Thorn manual and choosing the bike and gear, the anticipation of waiting for it to be built and the ultimate knowledge that I own a bike specifically built for me far outweighs the saving of £300, the provenance is actually a negative point for me, I want to break in my new virgin bike rather than know it was handled by a professional first...

Just the thoughts of a newbie.....

[Kuba]

So all in all for me I would save in the region of around £300, that just isnt enough of a saving.
The joy of reading the Thorn manual and choosing the bike and gear, the anticipation of waiting for it to be built and the ultimate knowledge that I own a bike specifically built for me far outweighs the saving of £300, the provenance is actually a negative point for me, I want to break in my new virgin bike rather than know it was handled by a professional first...

Same thoughts here. Plus, the hub must be a few years old at least and is a conversion from OEM, so you probably don't get the usual guarantees either, so not sure if £300 is enough of a saving.

[Danneaux]

Ian!

I ride a 590 Nomad Mk2 (standard, not the lighter weight/lower cargo capacity "X" version), so if you have any questions on specifics and such for this size, feel free to give a shout and I'll do my best to answer. Keep in mind I have mine equipped with drop handlebars and Thorn/Zoom long-layback seatpost and am extremely pleased with my T-bar mounted Rohloff shifter; just fits my needs with these 'bars, but would not be right for everyone.

Best,

Dan.

[ianshearin]

Ah your a drop handlebars man Dan....

I always used drops but in Saudi with the MTB I took it was straight bars, I got used to them but bought a Specialized Cross bike with drops when I came back, I sold that one a while ago and now have a cheap Halfords MTB for mucking about on, it has straight bars and the truth is I kinda like the straight bars, I have not done any real long distances so I can't really make any comparisons but I like the idea of Straight bars with those end things.
The brochure for choosing a bike by Thorn has the facility to choose a specific riding style, Relaxed, sporty etc. So I am assuming that I can get a decent riding position by letting Thorn know what riding style I prefer.

[Danneaux]

Hi Ian!

Straight handlebars are fast becoming (already are) the de factor standard for global touring/trekking bikes. I'm just a throwback/old roadie/traditionalist, whose wrists and shoulders have a disagreement with the straight-bar position after so many years (35+) on drops, so I still prefer them. The truth is, straight handlebars do a wonderful job of shielding the brake levers from damage in rough handling or extreme touring use. Drop the bike over, and the ends of the 'bars (with or without bar-ends) hit first, sparing the more vulnerable levers. With drops, the levers are right out there, subject to damage. With bar-ends, you have nearly the same position I do when I ride the brake hoods, and bent elbows can simulate the effect of drops. It all comes down to preference.

Like the helmet issue, I really believe it is whatever works best for the individual, so it's all good. We're lucky great equipment is available to setup the bike successfully either way.

The only thing to keep in mind when ordering a Thorn (given the generous number of sizes available) is to choose the 'bars first and use that as the criteria for helping select frame size (in terms of reach/top tube length). The shorter frames are best suited for drops, while the longer ones are ideal for straight and comfort 'bars.

Yes! Be sure you have an idea which riding position you prefer, and Thorn will sort you out on the sizing. Thorn came out with a wonderful guide to actually *show* the various riding positions, so one can just point to desired positioning. For those who haven't seen it, the link is here: http://www.sjscycles.com/thornpdf/SetUpHiRes.pdf

Size, equippage, etc. are all important, but pale to insignificance compared to the real question...what color will you choose? 

Ian, it is really exciting to see the "selection process" take place for you, and you've been generous to include us in the process. I have every confidence you'll get the "perfect bike" for your needs, and can't wait for the day when we see a photo of it in the Gallery. Any questions, give a shout and we'll scramble to give the best answers we can.

All the best,

Dan.

[brummie]

Any ideas what size Nomad Steve is aboard?  - Maybe useful for people to know for making comparisons.

[Danneaux]

Any ideas what size Nomad Steve is aboard?  - Maybe useful for people to know for making comparisons.

Brilliant idea, Brummie; I started a new thread for size comparisons here:
http://www.thorncycles.co.uk/forums/index.php?topic=5267.msg27871;topicseen#msg27871

Hopefully helpful to others down the road, as the "sizing question" arises often across all models.

Best,

Dan.