Rohloff seems like a very British company to me.

[MilitantGraham]

This is only my impression, and I'm not sure I can explain it properly, so don't expect it to make much sense.
I drive a Land Rover Defender. A brilliant example of British engineering and the best in the world at what it does best, or more accurately,the best in the world at what it did best 20 years ago.
While the rest of the world has moved on, making the 4x4s that people want to buy, Land Rover has continued making the Defenders it has always made.
It reminds me of Rohloff.
The best in the world at what it does best, but are Rohloff making the hubs that people want to buy or just making the hubs they have always made ?
The twist grip numbers. Impossible to read in daylight on a smooth road.
The twist grip itself. No good on drop bars and no trigger shift option.
The cables. Lucky if they last 3 months without the liner wrapping itself round the twistgrip.
The speedbone. Difficult to get the wheel in to horizontal dropouts and not compatible with post mount brakes.
All these problems could be solved if Rohloff had the will to do so, as some already have been by third parties.
It looks like the new 11 speed Alfine will become Rohloff's Toyota Hilux. 90% of the quality for 50% of the price.

[geocycle]

I agree with you in part.  They could have taken the product much further in the last few years and we still await the newer lighter version promised for so long.  They could also have solved the drop bar problem quite easily.  However, I have to take issue with:

'The twist grip numbers.' Sorry but I've not had a problem.

'The twist grip itself.' No good on drop bars and no trigger shift option.  But fine on flats used extensively outside UK and very reliable.

'The cables. Lucky if they last 3 months without the liner wrapping itself round the twistgrip.' 3.5 years on and I've not had a problem.

'The speedbone. Difficult to get the wheel in to horizontal dropouts and not compatible with post mount brakes.' OK, I'd not want one of these, but the EBB works well.

'It looks like the new 11 speed Alfine will become Rohloff's Toyota Hilux. 90% of the quality for 50% of the price.'  Maybe, but you make a big assumption about the quality.  The alfine is pretty good but other shimano hub gears have been terrible.  We'll have to wait and see how this one performs long term.

[MilitantGraham]

Geocycle, did you work as a manager at British Leyland in the '70s. ?   
To paraphrase your reply, "I don't think there's a problem, therefore there isn't a problem". 

The twist grip number. It's not just my eyesight, there's a thread about them here. http://www.thorncycles.co.uk/forums/index.php?topic=2452.0
Wouldn't it be nice if a Rohloff twistgrip was this easy to read ?



The twisgrip. Yes it is fine on flats, but not everyone rides flats. Most people are used to trigger shifters now, so why not offer the option.

The cables. Again, it's not just me. http://www.thorncycles.co.uk/forums/index.php?topic=1092.0

...we actually DISCARD the Rohloff cable outers that come with the hubs because we've found that the plastic liners are not bonded to the outer and can become detatched and pull into the shifter causing it to jam!!

The Speedbone. EBBs do work well, I've got two of them, but singlespeeding is the new fad in mountain biking and there are a lot of lighter, cheaper, horizontal drop out frames out there to cater for this market. Many riders will be using one of these frames for a Rohloff hub, rather than buying a Rohloff specific frame.

Comparing a Rohloff to an Alfine. BSA used to boast that they made 1 in 4 of the worlds motorbikes and laughed at the first little tinny Hondas imported in to Britain. Now Honda make 1 in 4 of the worlds motorbikes.
Innovation beats tradition every time.

[geocycle]

OK, I must have been feeling grumpy when I replied, sorry for being a bit short.  I take your point about the cables as I was referring to the thorn supplied cables not the original rohloff ones.

Rohloff do need to innovate to maintain their position as market leaders, especially if the new alfine lives up to the hype.  However, we have been here before with shimano hubs and I wait to hear the long term reviews and the customer service experiences.  You are correct in that as far as I can tell all that has changed with the rohloff in 10 years are the seals and the etched name.  Personally, I do not have a problem with the shifter although some cosmetic change to the numbering may help some folk who do.  More fundamentally, in an ideal world I would like a lighter hub and I would like to lose the noise in gear 7 so there is certainly scope for improvement. 

[gearoidmuar]

You don't need the numbers on the shifters. The angles are the same for gears 6 apart. 14,8 and 2 make the same angle. I learnt to read them in no time.
I've used trigger shifters for years, and gripshift before them. The Rohloff has the advantage of being able to make much bigger shifts quickly.
As for the drop bar "problem". I've bullhorn bars which won't accomomdate the shifters so I have mine on a small extension bar below. This can be done with drop bars if you want.
The weight problem is no problem.
I think that the original poster has a solution looking for a problem, the solution being cheap Japanese partial solutions. Shimano will no sooner have this hub out, than they'll have an incompatible one next year and so on. That's their form. Have you ever tried to buy a cone for a Shimano axle? Why do they have 473 different cones? For 74 different axles?

[PH]

The twist grip numbers. Impossible to read in daylight on a smooth road.
The only time I need to know what gear I'm in on any bike is to know when to change chainrings.  On my Rohloff my legs tell me what I need to know, my numbers completely wore of around 20,000 miles ago, it's simply not a problem. 
The twist grip itself. No good on drop bars and no trigger shift option.
No you can't have everything!  If you index the hub rather than the shifters you need more cable pull to make it work. It's not about just designing another shifter, it'd be a redesigned hub.  I'm sure they'd have done the market research, must have concluded the market doesn't warrant it, though that market is changing.
The cables. Lucky if they last 3 months without the liner wrapping itself round the twistgrip.
I've never had this problem, so can't comment except to say I must be doing something different to you.
The speedbone. Difficult to get the wheel in to horizontal dropouts and not compatible with post mount brakes.
Why compromise?  Just get the right frame.  It's like criticising a Mercedes engine because it doesn't fit in your Ford!
All these problems could be solved if Rohloff had the will to do so, as some already have been by third parties.
No, some of them can't be and some of them are simply not problems for the majority of users.
It looks like the new 11 speed Alfine will become Rohloff's Toyota Hilux. 90% of the quality for 50% of the price.
If Rohloff were aiming to be a mass market product, you'd probably be right, as they're not you're wrong.  Shimano.Campag and Sram make fine derailleur hubs, yet it hasn't affected the sales of Hope and Chris King.  Shimano make a reliable dynamo hub, yet SON are still going strong.  There is a market for premium products, the major players are not really interested in it, so there's room for those that are.

[vik]

I don't have any issues with my Rohloffs, but I do agree with you that Shimano's 11 speed Alfine [2011] and 14 speed Alfine [~2013?] will cause Rohloff a lot of problems.  I don't know how their business is doing, but I assume it's relatively small volume so they can't afford to lose too many customers to Shimano before they run into difficulties.

I've tried out Truvativ's Hammerschmidt 2 speed BB for MTBs and it's very very nice.  If I had a light weight 6 speed IGH I could use with it on my MTB I'd be extremely happy.

Since my two Rohloffs can realistically out last me I just hope Rohloff stays in business so I can get spares/repairs as needed to keep them rolling.

[Relayer]

I prefer traditional/quality/durable things and I got a Rohloff because it is supposed to tick most of those boxes.  I am very happy with my RST/Rohloff and don't have any problems with it.  I continue to buy other items made by British companies e.g. Brooks B17 saddles, Carradice cotton duck saddle bags, although there may be more modern options less weighty and more efficient, but I like these things!

I disagree with the comments about the shifter being no good on drop bars, the shifter on an accessory bar is better than downtube levers and bar-end levers - OK maybe not as convenient as STI but certainly good enough for touring, commuting and leisure riding.  The shifter pictured looks to me like cheap moulded plastic, probably much preferred by the mass market and would probably match the interiors of their Toyotas.

And, I would love to own a Defender!!   

[davefife]

The twist grip numbers.

what they then mine rubbed off about 2 years ago after 1 year, 3 months of that in my abrasive ski/cycling gloves, my twist grip is so worn i have about 4 sections of old inner tube on it now! when to buy a new one, I wonder

[vik]

I've tried a Rohloff shifter on a Thorn accessory bar and I found it was just so inconvenient that I gave up on it.  Bar end shifters are much much easier to shift than taking your hand off the bars to hunt for the Rohloff shifter and give it a twist.

http://thelazyrando.wordpress.com/?s=rohloff+accessory+bar



Hubbub makes a drop bar adapter for twist shifters.  I've used it with a Nexus 8 twist shifter and that works better than the Thorn accessory bar as you can slide your hand to the shifter without removing it from your drop bar.  It's not ideal however, but if I had to run a Rohloff with a drop bar that would be my choice at the moment.  Not the best photo, but you can see it on the Bike Friday above.

[travelling]

I liken this discussion to a motorcycle in that for many who ride occasionally they like to know what gear they are in, however those that ride a lot "just know"

That said being a regular motorcyclist I have on occasion found myself looking for seventh gear on a six speed motorcycle. Clearer markings would not push up the cost much if at all and agree that clearer markings would be seen as a positive.

Bearing in mind that tata, the indian company now owns Land Rover I would be reluctant to use that as an example now 

[TonySmith]

Hi Graham,

Last time I saw you you were still wondering of Rohloff was right for you. Glad you've seen the light!

I've gone back to drops now, with the shifter mounted on an accessory bar. I don't find it a problem and it's far better than the old down tube shifters (Actually I like down tube shifters, probably for the same reason I like crash gearboxes!). In order to get the smoothest cable run my shifter is twisted so far I wouldn't even be able to see the numbers if they hadn't rubbed off but it's never a problem. I'll agree that when I first bought the bike not being able to see them in the dark was annoying but now I just know what gear I'm in. Don't ask me how, I just know.

My original gear cables lasted 11,000 miles so at 13,500 I hope to have some wear left yet on the new set. Think of all the time you save not cleaning/adjusting derailliers!

Have you taken your hub apart yet to see how it works?