Intro from a new Raven owner

[Nik]

Hi All
As my first post, may I say hi to all members of this forum, who's postings are a pleasure to read. A database of great wisdom and support, which, along with other forums, and much comparison, helped me conclude the Thorn Raven as the perfect machine for my use.

Earlier this month I bought a black Thorn Raven which has proved my research true.  I'm currently using it for commuting to work, a 17.5 miles round trip, so we're getting familiar with each other quickly and all good, other than I'm still hesitant on getting used to the height of the top-tube.

This is probably down to my more recent commutes, a Pashley Paramount, now known as a Parabike, and a Bridgestone Moulton both had low top tubes.  Given Thorn's recommended sizing puts me on the 565L, the model I purchased, I accept it's my personal preference that's still got me deliberating.  My BFSH is 845mm which is pretty much to bone, my Raven, mid top-tube height with 2inch tyres comes in at 820mm.

Steve at Thorn has been very supportive and suggested I go back down to Bridgwater and have a test ride on a 530L should they have one in stock, whilst under guarantee, which I'm inclined to do, but that said, if anyone lives around the London area who happens to have a 530L model, I'd appreciate a first look..?

Top-tube aside for now, I still love the overall feel of the bike and Rohloff hub. I'll continue to commute during autumn and most of winter on the Raven, and perhaps buy an adjustable stem whilst finding that perfect angle, but beyond commuting, next year, my partner and I look forward to some camping / B&B breaks in the warmer weather. She rides a Roberts Audax, which she loves, but me being the bigger and stronger cyclist, I'll carry the majority pannier weight, our thinking being, hopefully our cruising pace will be similar. The bikes are quite different and make an interesting pair to weigh the pro's and con's (con's is perhaps a bit harsh) of each other's.

Picture attached.  The Raven's matt black frame and components look good to the naked eye but my opinion is the camera prefers colours. 

Regards
Nick

[julk]

Nick,
welcome to the community, I am sure you will enjoy riding your Thorn bike and getting used to a Rohloff.

If you cannot decide on frame size then definitely get down to Thorn and try a different size to put your mind at rest.
It is too major a purchase for it not to be right for you.

Safe cycling.
Julian.

[jags]

Happy cycling Nick even though im not a rohloff fan its still a fine looking machine. 
as julian said get the perfect size .

anto

[Danneaux]

Hi Nick, and welcome to the Thorn Cycling Forums!

You've a lovely Raven for sure, but I agree with Julian and Anto; it is well worth the additional trip to confirm sizing is ideal for you. This is a major purchase you'll likely have for some time, so best to make sure it is a good match while the opportunity is available.

Though I don't own a current Raven, I did own a Sherpa Mk 2 560S, currently own a Nomad Mk 2 590M, and last summer, rode an older Raven Tour 587S. My fit was the same on all, but I do value the Nomad's greater clearance for rough- and off-road use, as it gives that extra bit of room when stepping off a crowned road, into a pothole, or dismounting while the bike is facing up a steep hill. I don't enjoy the same clearance on my properly fitted randonneur bikes with horizontal top tubes and must remember to come off on one side or the other when the road surface is uneven. I have about the same clearance you do or a smidge more when I stand over them on smooth pavement, where normal clearance is not a problem.

Depending on your type of riding, you might well prefer a bit more clearance than the bare 25mm you enjoy now. Another option if you keep the bike might be to drop down a tire size and so gain clearance in that way at the cost of some cushion and stability on rough surfaces. Bicycle tires generally have a 1.0 aspect ratio (as tall as they are wide, measuring from the rim edge), so going from a 2.0 tire to, say, a 1.75 would likely gain you .25in/6.35mm -- not much, but a wee bit more.

Looking at your frame in profile and with you next to it, it appears you might be a bit longer in torso and shorter in leg than average (clothing can make that difficult to judge). The bike itself looks to be a fit for the rider; the seatpost seems to be on the upper end of the normal range and the stem appears to be at the top of an uncut steerer. A smaller frame might result in a bit more seatpost showing and the need to invert the stem to regain height. However, no matter how things might look, if the frame's top tube height fits a little "soon" for your needs, you'd be better off with a change. Seems a good idea to try the smaller size within the window allowed by Thorn to get a good match. Personal preference is paramount here!

I liked the matte black color of my Sherpa so much, I chose it again for my Nomad, primarily because it makes stealthy camping easier and also makes the bike a bit less noticeable in theft-prone areas. However, the black does not "pop" so nicely in photographs, as my use of AndyBG's kindly loaned red Raven Tour last summer proved. If you have any doubts about color and need to make a change for sizing anyway, perhaps it would be a good time to also consider a color change?

Looking forward to the rest of your story with all best wishes for a happy outcome on all respects.

Dan.

[ians]

I'm sure it's a nice bike, but can only see half a photo on my laptop - the wrong half.  Photo 1 just shows your left leg and some greenery. The rear triangle of your partner's bike looks nice though.

Dan - what am I doing wrong?

ian

[Danneaux]

Hi Ian!

You're not doing anything "wrong"; the picture is simply sized larger than the Forum's default display window.

If you're on a mobile device, you should be able to scroll the picture around with your finger and view other areas through the default window size.

If you're on a computer, a little horizontal scroll bar should appear below the photo; slide it back and forth to see everything. If you have a mouse with horizontal scrolling function, it should slide the photo back and forth also.

Alternatively, you can download the photo, then use your device's default picture viewer to see it all at once.

If you still have trouble, give me a shout and I'll try to help from here.

All the best,

Dan.

[ians]

got it now - thanks

[Andre Jute]

Hey, Nick, welcome. That's one of the grand things about Thorn, that they effectively give you an understated but very valuable guarantee of a bike that fits you like glove.

[John Saxby]

Ni Nick, and welcome!  We'll look forward to your stories as you get to know your Raven, and I'm sure you'll find the Forumistas an informed, knowledgeable and congenial lot.

A few thoughts on your question of getting the right size for your Raven.  I've had a 565S Raven since the spring of 2014, the 'S' because I have drop bars on my bike.  We seem to have similar sizes -- I have a long torso and arms, and shortish legs (a 30" inseam).

>   As folks have suggested, do take advantage of Thorn's very good warranty service, and check out the 530L Raven.  When I visited SJSC in the spring of 2013 (while I was researching my options), I tried both the 565 and 530 frames for size, and I felt as if I was perched up high on the smaller frame.  Emphasis on "felt" -- in these areas, how you feel about things is critical, not just the measurements.

>   That said, these are my measurements: 

      *  My Raven's mid-point standover height is 810 mm.  The bike has Mavic XM719 rims, and Schwalbe 26 x 1.6 Marathon Supreme tires.
      *  The standover measurement I gave to SJSC, when I ordered my frame, was 825 mm.  However, my other touring bike (with 700c wheels) has a standover height of of 830 mm (measurement error?).
      *  Riding, I've never had a problem with clearance on either bike, and the Raven is especially roomy.

>   So, do take the time to get the frame that feels best for you.  I've been very pleased with my Raven.  I use it for day rides, and have done a few tours on it through gentle and demanding terrain, camping and (less frequently) B&B-ing, from 3 days to three weeks. it's done everything I've asked of it, and it's a very comfortable bike to ride.

Hope this is helpful, Nick.  Good luck, and enjoy! - John

PS:  My Raven is matte black, and my Rohloff and SON28 hubs ditto.  My Hebie chainglider is black, and I strive to keep it looking grimy.  Of course I prefer shiny Italian red paint, but even more I prefer not to draw attention to my bike, the idea being that casual thieves will see that it has no derailleur, so must be a boring old NoName single-speed.  So far, it's drawn little attention: only a couple of other cyclists, drawing up alongside on their trick plastic bikes, have asked about the Rohloff and my touring experience.

[Nik]

Thank you for your comments these are all very helpful and provide me with a degree of reassurance my thoughts are valid, ie, given the correct size has been purchased, according to the sizing matrix, how I feel is also important.  But this must be tempered with the knowledge I've been riding bikes with low top tubes for the last circa 10 years and there's something non-threatening about low top tubes!   Hence I'll not visit Bridgwater for another couple of weeks to build up more experience on the 565L.
The photo shows me in slightly baggy cycle shorts, but then on the flip side I'm wearing fairly thick soled walking shoes. My everyday deck shoes brings the tube that bit closer.  I note Dan's comments on the tyre size and may pursue this option if I feel I'm too atop a 530L.  I'll ride for another couple of weeks at least, before visiting Bridgwater, and provide you with an update.
Worth noting I've now lowered the bar-ends to a 30 degree angle from what the photo displays.
As for the colour, John, your ps comment articulate my reasons for choosing matte black, although just last week, before dawn had broken, I saw a bike lit up like Santa's sleigh, multi-coloured flashing lights everywhere, and wondered if we were just opposite sides of the same coin.

[lewis noble]

Good luck with deciding, Nick - a personal choice that is not always clear cut.  And as others, Dan I think, have said, style / terrain / type of riding also counts.

It's interesting that there are sometimes comments on this Forum tend to 'estimate under' and advise frames too small, leaving masses of steerer /seatpost showing.  Others reckon they usually get it right.

In my case, I am 5'8.5" tall, 29 inside leg.  When I bought my new Sherpa in July, Thorn advised a 530S (straight bars but I go for a pretty upright position).  I wondered if a 500 would fit me better, Thorn put aside both frames for me until I went for a fitting.

Steve at Bridgwater tried me with both, and advised the 530 - and I think he was right, in that the posture is spot on - and I am getting used to the fact that the top tube feels higher than on the MTB oriented bikes I have had over the last 4 years.

In the next day or so, I will measure my actual mid-tube clearance and let you know. 

Lewis

[lewis noble]

Me again . . .

Our situations are quite similar, Nick.  (situations are? situation is??)  -  we both come from bikes with generous standover clearance (Cube Acid and Thorn Ripio in my case - both MTB in style though used for general riding), and face / faced a choice between frame sizes. I am a little shorter than you, so the 'choice' was one step down.

My tyres are !.6 Supremes - unlikely to change from them, and if I do, to larger rather than smaller. 

On my Sherpa (and I think the geometry is very similar to the Raven?), if I slip forward from the saddle, usual cycling shoes, feet flat on floor, I have around 40cm standover clearance.  I find that perfectly OK, and have no doubt that Steve's advice (530S rather than 500S) was correct for me.

I don't think it I would want it much less; as Dan reminds us, we sometimes have to get off quickly in less than ideal situations, when tired, loaded bike etc.

Good luck in making a decision that suits you.

Lewis