Author Topic: Rohloff versus Derailleur Pricing Comparison  (Read 13881 times)

leftpoole

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Re: Rohloff versus Derailleur Pricing Comparison
« Reply #15 on: December 28, 2014, 06:26:02 PM »
Hello,
I've owned a RST and a RT. I did not, and do not like either.
I agree that Thorn bikes do not have a good second hand value. I know not why!
Regards,
John

jags

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Re: Rohloff versus Derailleur Pricing Comparison
« Reply #16 on: December 28, 2014, 06:59:42 PM »
i reckon john thorn bike a more connected to the touring end of cycling .mind you its not just thorn bikes  sold my bianchi and look for little or nothing.
as for gearing in all my years of cycling i've once had an issus with derailuers.
rohloff i reckon are ok for touring around town ,no place on a road bike but sorry i know we are not talking road bikes just saying. ::)

Slammin Sammy

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Re: Rohloff versus Derailleur Pricing Comparison
« Reply #17 on: December 28, 2014, 07:18:49 PM »
Andrew, IMHO if you're off-roading or dirt-roading, the Rohloff is by far the better option, for all of the reasons mentioned. But if I were you, I'd also look at a Rohloff-design frame (with EBB and vertical dropouts), which will reduce weight (no chain tensioner or torque arm) and increase reliability. Cable guides for the hub are also an issue.

I think SJS are still selling a Raven Enduro 853 frame at a great price (£299). http://www.sjscycles.co.uk/thorn-raven-enduro-853-frame-met-silver-with-blue-blue-decals-prod10660/?geoc=au

You lose the 29+ wheels, but it'd make a superb bike for your purposes.

Just sayin'...
« Last Edit: December 28, 2014, 07:26:23 PM by Slammin Sammy »

in4

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Re: Rohloff versus Derailleur Pricing Comparison
« Reply #18 on: December 28, 2014, 09:04:50 PM »
That's a lovely frame. I'm not sure how you'd get the numbers to stack up; unless you were lucky enough to source the major items at a good price. Somehow, it would seem quite sacrilegious to economise with a cheaper hub, brakes, wheels, forks etc. All that said I can just that Enduro following Simeon ( Orme?) on one of his off-road adventures this winter.

Here is a link to the Enduro brochure to give you some idea what parts you might wish to use.

http://web.archive.org/web/20050331180703/http://www.sjscycles.com/thornpdf/ThornEnduroBroHiRes.pdf

The front cover is quite inspiring I find.

Similarly, this one on ebay might inspire you further

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Thorn-Raven-Enduro-853-Reynolds-/271702436692?_trksid=p2054897.l4275
« Last Edit: December 30, 2014, 09:02:15 AM by in4 »

onrbikes

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Re: Rohloff versus Derailleur Pricing Comparison
« Reply #19 on: December 29, 2014, 08:59:24 AM »
ANY 2nd bike doesn't hold its value, not just the Thorn.

Someone feels like having a go at touring buys an extremely expensive bike, doesn't like it and expects to sell it for %20 less.
I bought a 2nd hand RST for almost 1/2 of new and was well pleased. Mainly because we knew it was going to get used for another 15 years.



fossala

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Re: Rohloff versus Derailleur Pricing Comparison
« Reply #20 on: December 29, 2014, 09:03:02 AM »
Most bikes you seem to get around 2/3rds of the price back. Thorns seem to be around 1/2, it's a big difference.

geocycle

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Re: Rohloff versus Derailleur Pricing Comparison
« Reply #21 on: December 29, 2014, 09:15:50 AM »
Second hand value depends quite a bit. For example I bought my first raven tour for £1200 new in 2006. Rohloff s get better with age and hold their value well. I'd have expected to have sold for £900+ based on current prices. I'd view that as an investment. If you buy and sell within a year the drop might be proportionately high.
« Last Edit: December 29, 2014, 09:17:31 AM by geocycle »
 

energyman

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Re: Rohloff versus Derailleur Pricing Comparison
« Reply #22 on: December 29, 2014, 09:22:09 PM »
Our local auction house told me that 1/3rd of purchase price is about average for a bike in ok nick.
Unless of course Eddy Merckx rode it and you can prove it, then it may be worth a bit more, he said with wry smile :)

Danneaux

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Re: Rohloff versus Derailleur Pricing Comparison
« Reply #23 on: December 29, 2014, 10:53:05 PM »
Quote
Our local auction house told me that 1/3rd of purchase price is about average for a bike in ok nick
Apart from the debate on the relative merits and costing-out of the Rohloff vs derailleur drivetrains, this hefty devaluation of used bikes and my great sentiment toward any good tool (my bikes are indeed tools) is the reason why I rarely sell-on my older bikes. For what I would get for them, there is still residual value to be found in keeping them and riding them only occasionally. It isn't worth selling; a whole nicely working bike might bring half the cost of a frame alone -- if I were lucky.

As for the drivetrain debate and relative worth, all my bikes have derailleurs except for one Sturney-Archer 3-sp U-frame Folder, the Rohloff-equipped Nomad, and a moribund Sachs 3x7 on a Bike Friday I was recently given. Except for the Nomad they are all older bikes, most with 5-6 very thick cogs running on freewheels (and one 7-sp cassette) and similarly thick, non-indexed, hard-anodized chainrings. I get exceptionally good service life from these, but have found to my dismay I can wear through two or three nearly complete 9-sp drivetrains (most-used cassette cogs which are now part of a set and chainrings, plus multiple chains) in a single summer of my riding. Not so the Rohloff. It's longer life means I have already balanced costs and am now making money going forward compared to 9-sp. The increment is not so great compared to my older derailleur drivetrains, which I can keep going by reprofiling and heat-treating worn teeth every several years.

For me, the Rohloff feels more like a return to the "good old days" of long-wearing reliable half-step derailleur gearing. My 36x17 setup duplicates all the midrange gears of my favorite half-step setup but discards the useless higher gears I needed for the combo to work (but never used) while adding several much-valued lower ratios (which I use often while touring in mountainous terrain).

The icing on the cake is the exceptionally low maintenance required. I still clean my Rohloff's chain more often than most (little mascara brushes between the links while on-tour, with wipe-downs to remove grit before reoiling), but I'm spared the need to floss between the cogs and clean the gunk off a derailleur's jockey and tension wheels and I have more ground clearance and no fear of chainsuck in mud or hanger tearoff should the chain ingest a twig or small stick. Yes, my time is valuable, but I have a more Calvinist work ethic that says doing for oneself and working hard are not bad things, with more leisure allowing more projects and tours.

In extreme and continued heavy touring use -- torrential rains, mud, blowing talc-fine alkali dust, ground lava road-grit, snow -- the Rohloff really shines for me. I do have the continuing perception it is slower when coasting (not under drive), though I frequently ride the Nomad on 200km days where interesting detours to fire, timber-harvest and Forest Service roads call me away from pavement. For long day rides and less demanding touring conditions, I'm still happy with my older derailleur drivetrains and find the lighter bikes (key point) they're attached to better suited for 300-400km days in the saddle. A Mercury might change that balance, but I can't afford one. I do think common perception of the Rohloff drivetrain is colored to a degree by the sorts of bicycles they're attached to. Because they are so well suited to touring, Rohloffs are less often seen on lighter go-fast bikes. Also, the Rohloff rotary grip-shifter remains problematic for some drop-bar users because it is not as well-integrated as a derailleur's brifters, though it can be as convenient as bar-end shifters, depending on how it is located.

I think there's a place at the table for both drivetrains, but for the really gnarly stuff when I'm Out There Alone for a Good Long While, the Rohloff is the arrow of choice in my quiverfull of bikes and for me in my use, it especially makes sense compared to the more quick-wearing 9-sp derailleur drivetrains. Given this, I'm sorry to see 1x11 being developed, and would like to see the reintroduction of 3x7  or 3x8 touring-specific setups for the dedicated tourist. Until and unless, I think Rohloff is the way to go for long-lived all-weather touring.

Best,

Dan.

mickeg

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Re: Rohloff versus Derailleur Pricing Comparison
« Reply #24 on: December 30, 2014, 12:10:42 AM »
Good discussion Dan.  I agree that the increasing number of cogs on a cassette over time is not much of an improvement and is possibly a detriment for touring.

On the touring bike I built up in 2004, I could have gone with an 8 or 9 speed.  I chose 8.  I wanted the wider chain, I did not know if it would last longer but I thought it might.  I also wanted wider spacing between the rear cogs, that means that the rear shifter stays in adjustment better.  I used Sram 11/32 cassette.  If I went with a 9 speed instead of 8 I would have gotten 24 and 28 tooth cogs, an 8 speed instead has a 26.  The other 7 cogs on an 8 speed are the same as on the 9 speed.  Thus, there is not much difference in gearing.   I was so happy with my gearing that when I buillt up my Sherpa in 2010 I used identical 8 speed gearing.

Danneaux

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Re: Rohloff versus Derailleur Pricing Comparison
« Reply #25 on: December 30, 2014, 05:05:38 AM »
Hi Andrew!

From today's entry on your linked blog, it looks like you've decided to pass on the Rohloff for now.

No worries.

If at some point you later decide you want one, the frame you'll be using will later accept a Rohloff instead and you could move the derailleur drivetrain on to another project. A friend did that about a year ago with a frame capable of accepting both drivetrains, swapping-in the derailleur setup from another bike to get things going, then swapping back to make the first frame salable when he later acquired a Rohloff for the newer frame.

Best wishes on your project, and the many adventures that await it on completion,

Dan.