Thorn Cycles Forum
Technical => General Technical => Topic started by: jags on August 02, 2012, 08:26:01 PM
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is it possible to get the forks and rear stayes on my sherpa chromed.
just asking ::)
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If you find the cash yes...but the paint needs stripped down, the metal sanded down to perfect and then it needs chromed....
And you need to find a place to do "decorative chroming" nearby, as a thick ugly layer of chrome for function isn't what you need.
Might be cheaper to get an old frame and move the parts :P
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is it possible to get the forks and rear stayes on my sherpa chromed.
Yes. ;D
(You're probably thinking of that gorgeous Gios tourer you sent the link for)
The thing is, jags...the chrome-plating of today is not the same as the chrome-plating of yesterday. With changing environmental regulations, the process has changed, and it is really hard to get really good chrome. "Really good chrome" means careful surface preparation, careful etching, and a nice copper underlay before it ever hits the chroming salts/tank. What you'll want to look for is a firm that advertises "show-quality" chrome plating. It will be expensive. Yo'd have to leave clear instructions with the plater to neutralize the chroming salts afterwards so the frame didn't rust out where the salts entered the frame through the vent holes (if any; you're fine with the Sherpa). You'd want the fork half-dipped and the rear chain- and seatstays half-dipped so the bottom bracket threads remained intact. You'd have to re-tap the threads in the rack and mudguard braze-ons.
It is a lot of work, pretty expensive hard to get a great-quality job and -- provided it is done right and maintained nicely -- wonderfully pretty.
My two Centurions are entirely triple-chrome plated under the paint (with selected areas left with the chrome exposed). It really adds to the lustre and depth of the paint. It increases the corrosion resistance (under the paint). It is pretty. It required an awful lot of polishing before plating to make it look so nice.
There's some downsides. Both frames weigh 15oz/425g more than if they weren't chrome-plated. It is hard to properly touch-up any nicks because the chrme shines through and I cannot match the factory's 5-stage catalyzed painting process. Despite what one might think, chrome is kind of porous, and it is possible for it to rust. The preventive cure is to keep it nicely waxed or polished with a non-abrasive metal polish with a silicone component. I prefer ammonia-based Blue Magic 'cos it is non-abrasive and leaves a protective (silicone) coating behind. If the worst happens (say, the chrome gets compromised with salt air or through rock chips and actually starts to rust), it can be brought back from even a dreadful state by using metal polish or ammonia and aluminum foil; the chemical combination breaks down the rust (works on old car bumpers, too). It sure brought my 1970 Raleigh Gran Sports with half-chromed fork and rearstays back from the dead. I got it used and the chrome was freckled with brown rust and pits, but not clear through. Looks like new now, and has stayed that way the last 27 years or so of my ownership.
So, yes, it is entirely possible to chrome your Sherpa, but you'll need to look around a bit to find a good-quality chromer and follow-up to make sure they do a good job of it. Do those things, and it'll be great. Only trouble is, we'll need to wear 8) to see you!
[EDIT: Ah! Jawine beat me to it while I stopped for a bite to eat. She and I are on the same page, but she got there quicker! Did a nice summary, too!]
All the best,
Dan.
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thanks folks just a crazy idea i had, ah well i might as well dream here as in bed ;D ;D
but i think i will get my sherpa resprayed, i got my raleigh done maybe 6 years ago by a guy that used to make bikes( Des Maye Raparee bikes) he was a bit of a genius was des ,but i'm not sure if he still works..
nice bike that gios . ;)
thanks anyway .
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Ah Dan but as always you're posts are much more detailed ;D
Chrome stays/forks rock...been drooling over second hand frames on e-bay again. One day!
Ow, there was a chromed roadster frame on e-bay! It's £80 and postage. Very nice but...3 KG (!!!!) It's however too long for me and I know Jags is the same height...
Anyhoo: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/20-27-CHROME-FRAME-FORKS-TO-SUIT-27-WHEEL-BUILD-YOUR-OWN-FIXIE-SPORT-RACER-BIKE-/180941779151?pt=UK_sportsleisure_cycling_bikeparts_SR&hash=item2a20f870cf
#drool but too big like nearly all old stuff as it's nearly all male kit snirf...
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/DIAMANT-VINTAGE-COLUMBUS-AELLE-RACE-FRAME-w-SHIMANO-HEADSET-/261074971231?_trksid=p5197.m1992&_trkparms=aid%3D111000%26algo%3DREC.CURRENT%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D14%26meid%3D1049807915478008385%26pid%3D100015%26prg%3D1006%26rk%3D1%26
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Chrome stays/forks rock...been drooling over second hand frames on e-bay again. One day!
They do rock! I miss seeing the chrome that always used to grace forks and stays. Even really cheap frames had the shiny stuff on the forks in the late-1970s. It was good chrome, too!
Oh, my...those are both gorgeous offerings you found, Jawine. eBay is a dangeous place to frequent. ;)
#drool but too big like nearly all old stuff as it's nearly all male kit snirf...
See...this is what my sister runs into all the time, and it really irritates me. Cycling is *not* (or should not be) a gender-specific sport, but when most of the kit is too big or mis-sized...it has that effect. When I led touring groups in the late-'70s to early-'80s, it broke my heart...my groups were mixed evenly between men and women. The women were often stronger, but had to fight and overcome ill-fitting equipment just to pull up even. The cards were stacked against them, and it wasn't fair. Top tubes were so long that even with short stems, they were all stretched out and got neck- and headaches. The crankarms were too long, the standover was poor, the seat tube angles were off so they had to claw ahead instead of sitting properly in relation to the bottom bracket, and the saddles...! There was nothing remotely geared to women on touring bikes...it was a man's saddle or nothing, and I still recall one woman stopping in tears to wrap her jacket over her saddle in an effort to make it ridable, just so she could get home. Sucked the fun out of it for me, too, seeing her suffer like that. I phoned for the van so she could get a ride home. D'ya know what was worse? She called the next week to cancel, sayiing she just "...knew [she] couldn't ride like that if it hurts so bad". Her next words really got me: "Maybe I'm just not cut out to ride a bike".
Man! That's not just sad, it's tragic. Made me a staunch advocate for proper sizing throughout. Nobody should be denied the joy of riding because of poor fit.
Thorn's offering so many sizes and reaches is a real model for other makers to emulate; I wish more would do the same. Andy has even taken great care in his brochures to specifically point out which sizes will give the best fit for women and men by body type and dimension, and Thorn's sizing system is really incredible compared to what other makers offer.
. . .
Sorry, you hit one of my passions there and off I went. As for chrome, I agree; it sure is pretty! Dear, but pretty.
Best,
Dan.
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Jawine those are really nice bike's i do like a bit of bling i'm a bit of a magpie ;D ;D
don't get me wrong i love the colour of my sherpa but a change is as good as a rest,so it's getting a face lift when i have the dosh then i'll get my son to airbrush something nice on the head tube and panels on seat tube .
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...then i'll get my son to airbrush something nice...
...and you can bet it *will* be nice; jags' son does work that is simply incredible. It will be a Sherpa for the ages, that's for sure!
Best,
Dan.
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Thanks Dan yeah he's pretty clever with a brush thats for sure.
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If you're serious, Julian, you don't want chrome. It never was a process you had much control over, and it is now less so, and even good chrome has all kinds of stupid problems that defeat all the purposes for which you wanted chrome plating in the first instance.
Instead, what you want is stainless stays and a stainless fork. Polished, of course. And not that silly light Reynolds stuff. Real touring tubes. The best ones are made from Poppe und Potte's Noblex stainless tubes, no longer in production. But Uwe Marschall bought all the factory stock of tubes, and he'll see you right.
http://www.marschall-framework.de/Galerie/index.html
Marschall is a bit difficult to deal with. He's an artist, he doesn't speak English, and you have to communicate with him through his wife . But just look at his craftsmanship!
Andre Jute
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Andre,
Thanks, that is some cool link, 50 gorgeous photos of bike bling.
Good job he doesn't speak English! My pension is safe a bit longer.
I had a couple of bikes in my youth with half chroming on the forks, lovely to look at, sadly both stolen from Liverpool University when I was a student there back in the 1960s.
Julian.
p.s. I think you may have confused me with Jawine or Jags who posted earlier, not me.
All these names starting with J, what were our parents thinking of.
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Andre thanks for posting that link ,bikes are stunning jeez if a fella had only money. ;)
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Very nice Rohloff road-touring bike there as well 8).
(http://www.marschall-framework.de/Galerie/images/alamo_rohloff.jpg)
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Hi Dan
Cycling came a long way luckily! Plenty of choice now and even women specific road bikes.
Sometimes however they change decoration on them (eg flowers instead of stripes) which means I won't buy that one!
Or pink bikes BAH. Unless 80s that's acceptable lol.
Geometry fine, but you're not going to print hammers on a male bike, why the flowery stuff on female bikes. Looking at you TREK!
But it means getting vintage kit for me is very hard, bar the old steel Peugeots etc. One day...
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Say Dan take note on how the twister shift is mounted on that bike il padrone posted btw are the angles on that dream machine very tight. ::)
say jawine don't be hung up on pink or flowers chippo wore both ;D ;D and they don't come much cooler that the italian stallion ;)
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LOL
I have a mixte fixie finished in red glitter paint so maybe I should just shut up lol.
It's not chromed though :P
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Andre,
Thanks, that is some cool link, 50 gorgeous photos of bike bling.
Good job he doesn't speak English! My pension is safe a bit longer.
I had a couple of bikes in my youth with half chroming on the forks, lovely to look at, sadly both stolen from Liverpool University when I was a student there back in the 1960s.
Julian.
p.s. I think you may have confused me with Jawine or Jags who posted earlier, not me.
All these names starting with J, what were our parents thinking of.
Me too, Jute, maybe I should change it to Ferrari (Smith in Italian!).
I used to be in luxury fast car design for a while, and every time I wanted chrome plating rather stainless steel to save a few ounces, the production manager would say, "You're giving me ulcers, man." And this was in Britain, where chrome plating was generally 100% superior to the States. It used be a wise old saw in British hotrodding (such as it is -- they wouldn't let me in with my Bentley flatscreen sportscars "because they're toff's cars") that any chromium part you imported from the States had to be stripped and replated before you fitted it.
Andre Jute
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Andre thanks for posting that link ,bikes are stunning jeez if a fella had only money. ;)
Actually, Marschall isn't expensive at all by German custom standards. For instance, I could have a Rohbloff 29er from him for near-enough Kranich money -- if I was prepared to wait. I wasn't. Other custom makers, especially the better Americans like David Bohm, are a good deal more expensive and many of them make dull if worthy bikes; I mention Bohm by name because he makes an exciting bike and is also an artist: see http://www.bohemianbicycles.com And here is an article I wrote about one of the dull ones, Waterford Bikes, after some American roadies thought it amusing to hound me for not buying American: https://groups.google.com/forum/?fromgroups#!msg/rec.bicycles.tech/LqY0UpZTIP0/KW_fz6H3sbQJ -- notice Carl Lundquist pitching in in support; as usual on RBT with any substantive thread this one is not for the squeamish.
The Marschall secret is that, once you've totted up the frame and fork and major extra fittings and polishing if you want it, you can get all kinds of alterations and extra fittings free -- bits that everyone else charges extra for. And he throws in a Chris King headset, fitted. I calculated everything, right up to the moment I took my first ride, and in that spreadsheed, for so beautiful a bike, made with such rare tubes, a Marschall looked like a bargain.
Maybe in these economic times his waiting list is shorter.
Andre Jute
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Hm...so what roughly would a chrome fork/stays fixie cost from Mr Marshall me wonders? :)
A very rough ball park would do... £600-800-1000?
I speak German...that won't be the issue :D
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don't talk to me about fixies i went for a spin yesterday with my son he rides his fix all the time. 35 miles of torture never again ;D ;D
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Hm...so what roughly would a chrome fork/stays fixie cost from Mr Marshall me wonders?
Price list here: http://www.marschall-framework.de/MARSCHALL%20Framework%202012%20Preisliste%20Deutschland.pdf
Steel Fixed = 750Euro
Stainless steel Fixed = 1400Euro
Looks like there might even be a choice of tube diameters, too.
Dangerous waters, Jawine...think of these beauties...!
Best,
Dan.
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Hm...so what roughly would a chrome fork/stays fixie cost from Mr Marshall me wonders? :)
A very rough ball park would do... £600-800-1000?
I speak German...that won't be the issue :D
You should be that lucky! Frame and fork only:
Singlespeedrahmen / Fixie mit Gabel
BONANZA, Werkstoff Rahmen & Gabel: CrMo Stahl €750
SAN JOSE, Werkstoff Rahmen & Gabel: NOBLEX Edelstahl €1400
It's not a direct comparison, though, as the stainless frame comes with a Chris King headset fitted.
http://www.marschall-framework.de/MARSCHALL%20Framework%202012%20Preisliste%20Deutschland.pdf
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Lovely work :)
In other news: The filler brazen Thorn guys (Lee Cooper cycles) are still going here: http://www.14bikeco.com/frames/frames and with their own business.
£650 for a frame though...
Should maybe have a look at getting a bike in NL and bring it back...as cycling is like breathing over there you don't get the UK inflated prices. Not sure they did chrome frames though...