Thorn Cycles Forum
Community => Muppets Threads! (And Anything Else) => Topic started by: Pavel on March 07, 2012, 12:56:52 AM
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I've heard it told that the Nomad is a nice bike but not the fastest in the world. Not true! In fact I think the speed is amazing. Just think. My order shipped on Friday and here it is on Tuesday - FOUR days later! Out of the shop, over the ocean, through customs and to my door in this quaint hick little town in the center of North Carolina.
That was FAST! 8) THANK you all who helped me with the order at SJS cycles and all of you here who have helped me with information and inspiration since I had joined this forum.
Fastest Nomad ever. ;D ;D Those skinny tired bikes would have taken all week!
I got home about an hour ago btw and just finnished putting it together. Pictures later. Man, oh man .... what a great surprise.
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Oh, Pavel! This is wonderful news!! Thanks so much for sharing the "new arrival" with us; just tickled for you!
My wish, in the form of a toast:
"May you ride far and long,
happy and strong.
On your new Thorn,
you'll be reborn!"
All the best,
Dan.
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Gettin' any sleep tonight Pavel? I'm guessing New Bike Excitement is still in high gear. If you're like me when Sherpa arrived, you'll park him in the livingroom and check on him periodically through the night. Just to make sure he's getting settled-in properly, of course. In case he needs anything. Just to make sure he's still there and to confirm it wasn't a dream.
Nomad's really here! ("there" to me, "here" for you). ;) Gotta name for 'im (or her?) yet?
Congratulations!
(How's Nomad ride? Doin' the "tourist thing" and introducing him to North Carolina? Of course you are!)
Best,
Dan.
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Have fun with your new bike, Pavel!
I still have studded winter tires on my Nomad. There is still some snow and ice on the roads at the tops of the hills here. Forecast for the next couple days is warm enough weather to melt all that, but then it will get cold again.
I've ordered Duremes for my bike and for my girlfriend's son. That Erie Canal path has enough loose stuff, I think a bit of tread will be useful. Right now Bike24 is scrutinizing my debit card data with remarkable care before they decide to ship the tires! I figure when they get here it'll be time to take off the studs.
Did you go for the low gears like 38x16 or 40x17? I have 38x16 and use that bottom gear plenty!
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Hooray Pavel! Can't wait to see photos...
Your Nomad is much faster than mine, apparently! Maybe I should have had you place the order for me. Yours shipped after mine did, but I'm still waiting!! Anxiously, I might add!!
Jim... I will be on the Erie Canal tour too... Hopefully I will see you there! :)
Chris
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Sleep? Of course .... in a few days.
The day was nice here in NC. I had lunch with a few friends and then since I was already in Raleigh I thought, why not drive to Durham where I had heard that there was a nice bike path through the historic part of old durham. It is called the Tobacco trail.
I rolled in a parked the car and right at that time I received a call the there were two large boxes at home. That was a tough moment! I decided that I had the willpower to wait. The lies we tell ourselves.
This is the Tobacco trail:
(http://invl.com/Thorn/120306-031626.jpg)
(http://invl.com/Thorn/120306-035133.jpg)
Nice ... but somehow I was not into it ;D and took off for home after about an hour.
I was going to go straight home but thought that this needs to be done properly so I went to the store first. British bike ... British brew ... right? ;)
(http://invl.com/Thorn/120306-055114.jpg)
The cats like it too. They know quality boxes and after I emptied them they had a grand ol' time playing.
(http://invl.com/Thorn/120306-055748.jpg)
Time to get down to work. SJS cycles really know how to pack the bikes up. I was impressed at all the foam and the careful and thorough way it was put on - with 387 zip ties.
This is the Hobo look I'm currently cultivating. Nobody will steal my bike - I mean, who steals from the homeless, right? :D
(http://invl.com/Thorn/120306-061149.jpg)
Putting a bike together is hard sweaty work. Time for a break ... or four.
(http://invl.com/Thorn/120306-062004.jpg)
The Brits sure know their stuff! ( how does one immigrate? )
(http://invl.com/Thorn/120306-062030.jpg)
The whole putting together of the bike took only about 45 minutes. I had chosen the less expensive two box shipping to save some money and expected a lot more work. It was very obvious that someone had carefully set the bike up and then disasembled it to box up. All the cables were set up, everything was greased and so it was a breeze. Very nice!
(http://invl.com/Thorn/120306-070043.jpg)
I manages a two minute test ride. Tomorrow I will fit the racks and lights, adjust the brakes and tweak things. I am very impressed. My only slight disappointment is in the fact that while the rear wheel is perfect, the front is not trued as well as I would have hoped. There is about a centimeter and a half lateral runout in one spot. I'' live with it for a few days if I can get the brakes not to rub and then have someone local true it up for me. That is the only small nit ... the rest completely exceeds my best hopes.
What a GREAT day!!!
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Pavel,
Great photos! Hopefully you can get out for a longer test ride tomorrow... Looks like more nice weather down your way!!
Chris
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I will be on the Erie Canal tour too...
Wow, very cool! Can't be so very many Nomads in New York, I wouldn't expect! Should be easy needles to find, and the haystack isn't so very big! I think it will be a great fun ride!
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Pavel,
What a terrific photo essay of your "Thorn (Un)Boxing" Day! Wonderful, and so very happy for you!
Glad yours came through with minimal troubles.
Chris, fingers crossed yours will arrive soonest, and we'll soon be celebrating with you as well! Placing an order makes time elastic -- mine took forever, and Pavel's passed at warp speed; here's hoping you'll have a "Pavel Experience". Let us know when it arrives...
All the best,
Dan.
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Shame about the front wheel being out of true but I presume you meant by a millimetre and a half rather than a centimetre and a half?! I know you Americans don't use the metric system much!
And by the way, Guinness is Irish, not British.
Nice bike though!
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really class bike almost as nice as my sherpa ;D ;D
enjoy every pedal stroke buddy only one gripe as i'm irish
Guinness is about as irish as you can get and should never ever be drunk from a bottle ;D ;D
only jokeing pavel its a great lookingh bike and probably the best touring bike in the world sure will be interesting to hear your views on it when you get it going Loaded and unoaded.
hopefully more pics. cheers
jags.
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Guinness Irish? Oh, man ... I feel bad about my faux-pas and promise to rectify my mistake at once! ;D I took it upon myself to consume, as fast as possible the brew with the different Karma, and in fact am very pleased to inform that it is all gone. Now to set things right I must ask those of you who have done research in this area to recommend an alternative. I have to say that Guiness is the best beer I've ever had the pleasure of (so far) but since symbolism is so important I promise to drink at least two cases of whichever brew is recommended and which I can find here amongst the cans of Miller light. Mea Culpa ... or cuppa, I mean. :D
Jags ... I noticed that the Guiness seems to impart more of a wobble to the ride. Is that an Irish thing? ;)
The wheel is not as bad as I first reported. Yes my guess was 1.5 mm, not cm but I measured it as best as I could without a runout dial and it is close to about 3 mm, just in one spot. I can imagine that shipping could have had something to do with it and I know that sometimes some rims can pull after even a good build. No problem though as I adjusted the brakes, centering them, and now the rim just misses from rubbing. Thorn sets the breaks up really nice and tight, perhaps a millimeter on each side.
I've been puttering with various things about the bike, slowly dialing it in and I've gone on two short rides of about six and ten kilometers so far. My first impressions are that the bike is less stiff than I expected. What I mean is that the bike is obviously a strong frame but it is supple and comfortable. I was willing to give up anything comfort wise to gain a good controlled ride with no sway after my experiences with my Fuji Touring bike but this is completely different than I was worried about. This bike is not harsh at all! What a nice surprise. Seriously ... I'm blown away! It is also more lively than I expected and picks up speed very briskly - even with me pedaling. :)
I'm starting to come to the thinking that it is a function of 26" wheels vs 700cm. Aside from all the advantages such as strength and availability in more countries, I think that the smaller circumference adds a noticeable degree of ease of speed change giving that lively impression. It makes sense because if you take the same weight and spin it over a larger circumference as you need to on 700cm wheels you increase the effective mass tremendously. Any thoughts on that? I've got the 1.6 duremes on right now, I have not yet tried the mondials but the ride is much more of a lighter bike that I thought it would be. That is a very pleasant surprise. I thought that perhaps my choice of a Nomad may have been one that was too extreme (but at least it would not do the fuji wobble) and that I perhaps would find the downsides biting me, but so far ... what downsides?!?! 8)
I tried to take much care in how I wired the lights and have many thoughts on that, which I will save for another thread in a more appropriate section. I did want to ask one quick thing however. I normally like to have a ground wire run back to the light from the rear led lamp rather than grounding it through the frame. I don't like zip ties. I don't use them except when I can't think of other options. The Nomad has a little bit of space under or over that rear brake line in the braze on guides. I wanted to run the wire through there but it is just a bit too narrow a space to be able to fit it in. Perhaps a bit of grease along with elbow grease? Anyways, I feel quite sure that if I run only one wire, it will fit but then I will have to ground to the frame. Any ideas here both about how best to do this and about where and how it would be good to ground to if that is the best option for one who hates extra zip ties?
I will post some pix of my happy struggles after I get them on the computer. As I mentioned, I've got many thoughts and questions for you that have gone down this route before. Hey, I can see that tinkering with a nicely thought out bike can be almost as much fun as riding it. So much to optimise. I wonder if that is a guy thing. The girls may be more sensible and simply use the bike for what it was designed to do. ;D So in that spirit, dawn is breaking and the birds are singing (praises for thorn bikes I think) so I better get out there and do what the Nomad was designed to do. I can stare at it and dream of optimizations later! Ciao fer now!
I've noticed that this forum is more slow moving, with less participation than other forums I've been on. It's a shame that Thorn builds such good bicycles. We don't get to post innumerable gripes. You all seem to be cycling, rather than nursing sore body parts or waiting on repairs. Oh well, nothings perfect! :-\ :-*
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I had SJS wire up the dynamo-powered rear light on my Nomad.... it's zip ties the whole way! Two wires, routed down the down tube, out the non-drive chain stay, then up the rack brace.
Someday I want to try some 1.6 inch tires... so far I have been using just 2 inch wide tires.
I wonder about the inertia argument. A given mass will contribute a larger moment of inertia as it is situated at a larger radius... but on the other hand, a larger radius wheel will turn at a lower RPM for a given vehicle speed. I suspect it all cancels out.
It does seem, though, that a smaller wheel can be made lighter with the same strength as a larger wheel.
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cant wait to see the photos Pavel sure is going to be some bike.
the fastest speed i done on my sherpa fully loaded was 52mph down hill of course but it was so solid felt as safe as houses ;D but i've copped myself on since then .
anyway dont forget to post the finished bike and oh yeah take it easy with that guinness very addictive stuff 8)
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The other details I'd like to mention are that this new Rohloff hub is surprisingly quiet and a strong degree quieter than the one I have been riding. That is a major surprise! I now wonder if my old Rohloff needs an oil change, and real quick. I'm going to order the oil change kit and hope it makes my worn in hub as quiet as my new one. The old hub has a noticeable increase in noise as you go from low gears into gear seven - as expected and then is pretty much silent. The new hub is quieter in seven that the low gears on the old, and a slight bit more quiet in it's lower gears - but in truth they are all very hard to hear at all while riding vs just spinning them on the bike stand. I'm thrilled - except of course now hope that there isn't something amiss with the old hub. I imagine that there must be a bit of variance with Rohloff's as with any other mass produced part, but this degree of silent is almost a shock after all of what I'd heard before. Heck I did't know what the fuss was all about with the old, apparently fussy hub. NICE!
The duremes however are noisy. I can hear them squeal as speed increases. I have to go and try the other tyres but only after I've done more mileage with these and have had the chance to get to know them better.
Has anyone tried replacing the pads on the XTR brakes? They seem really hard and I wonder if there are not better choices out there?
On the light thing, I will even probably go with a battery powered light on the rear before I disfigure that sleek Nomad look with my arch-enemy, the zip tie! :)
In fact I tried that already and was surprised that the Thorn rear rack back plate is drilled like swiss cheese, but none of the holes line up with the 50mm spacing of my rear light. I thought that 50mm was a popular size nowadays along with 80mm?
Lastly (for now) was the discovery that the Nomad uses nice, stout, confidence inspiring screws to hold the racks on the front fork. That is great. My Tubus ergo, however uses more wimpy bolts, one size smaller and will NOT have the Thorn bolts fit through the mount holes nor through the small spacers neither. That's odd, because I've seen Thorn bikes with Ergos mounted. Did the bolts recently get beefed up or do people drill out the Tubus racks? Does anyone have any of the tubus stuff on ... and how'd ya do it?
Still waiting for the (urgent) beer advice ... btw. ;)
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Hi Pavel!
So nice to read of your continuing saga with Thorn ownership. Again, congratulations!
With regard to wiring a taillight, may I suggest: http://www.thorncycles.co.uk/forums/index.php?topic=3896.msg17113#msg17113 and http://www.thorncycles.co.uk/forums/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=3896.0;attach=1030 Warning: It does involve three zip-ties on the downtube (nearly invisibly places) and one on the left chainstay near the BB. This was the approach I took after some planning. If you wish to try an alternative route, you may wish to look at this thread: http://www.thorncycles.co.uk/forums/index.php?topic=2273.0 My past attempt to wire bike lights with self-adhesive flat speaker wire (it comes on a roll, like clear electrical tape, but with two copper conductors) worked fine, but looked more unsightly. See: http://www.21st-century-goods.com/categories/Flat-Wire/Flat-Wire/ Smaller quantities are available elsewhere for lower cost, and I do remember Radio Shack carrying it in the past. Anyone for a Thorn with decorative copper lining? Didn't think so.
With regard to hard Deore XT brake pads, may I suggest Kool-Stop Salmons (unless you're running CSS rims)? They are much kinder to rims than Shimano's offerings and offer terrific, long-lasting performance wet or dry.
With regard to Tubus racks...yes, one has to drill out the mounting holes if your bosses require 6mm bolts. Tubus racks are factory-supplied with 5.1mm holes, made a smidge smaller by the powdercoat when factory-fresh. A 15/64" drill bit will get you close fractionally if you don't have a metric, numerical, or letter-designated bit.
Hope this helps. May you ride safe, far, fast, and joyfully. You seem to have a handle on all that already! :D Wonderful!
Best,
Dan.
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Thanks for that reply and info, Dan - concise as per usual! You know aside from zip ties I'm chagrined with the whole crude state of bike wiring in its entirety! There should be something commensurate with the ownership of a fine dyno. I have both the flimsy and stiff cable that comes with Bush&Muller as well as the coax cable, which is much more confidence inspiring that you Schmidt lights come with - but neither is perfect. I've got everything for a good soldering of all the connections but both styles have "issues" The better Schmidt, for example is, as best as I've been able to manage, impossible to make completely water tight and strong.
There should be some kind of super cool connector which gets soldered without any funky splicing patching up to do, and then should be able to be connected and disconnected with a smooth click. Ok, perhaps I'm over-doing this (what a shock!) but still .... :)
Peter white sells some fabulously expensive gold plated connectors ( http://www.peterwhitecycles.com/wiringinstructions.asp )that seem like a step up but before I spend that kind of money I want to think through if there are any alternatives. Any thoughts anyone? I guess I should take this kind of stuff to the pertinent thread category though, so I will.
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There should be some kind of super cool connector which gets soldered without any funky splicing patching up to do, and then should be able to be connected and disconnected with a smooth click.
Pavel,
Gotcha covered there: polarized gold-plated Dean's micro-connector (Model 2NB, P/N 1002/1225 http://www.wsdeans.com/products/plugs/micro_plug.html ), used in radio-control (R/C) models. They work terrifically well on bicycle wiring, are secure and weatherproof. I've used them for everything from light wiring to splicing two computers to a single pickup lead so both tandem computers get the same readout. Cheap, too.
Don't forget the hi-dielectric silicone grease on the connectors, esp. the ones on the dynohub else they'll be hard to remove.
Best,
Dan.
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Pavel,
Good to hear your new steed is running you in nicely…
Frames,
Yes the Thorn steel frames are rigid enough for a very heavy load, but still feel alive.
My old Dawes had the jelly feel when fully loaded, my Thorn is so much better.
Brakes,
I found KoolStop salmon best for wet conditions, pink/black combo best for all round use on Sun Rhynos. I am now using KoolStop black CSS on my CSS rims after giving SwissStop blue CSS ones a try, they worked well in the dry but they let me down in extreme wet conditions.
I have had no difficulty changing the blocks in the XTR brakes.
If you are running alloy rims, not CSS, then get rid of any Shimano blocks - they chew the rims up as bits of alloy get embedded in the blocks, KoolStop seem to be a lot better.
Rohloff hubs,
My second one runs smoother and changes gear slicker than my first one - maybe there are improvements we don't hear about, or it is just pot luck.
Dynamo lights & wiring,
I use a SON dynohub and Supernova lights and gold connectors, E3 non dazzle at the front, E3 connected rear rack light (small with 3 leds).
The connection to the dynohub is standard spades which I only undo to take the wheel off, front wiring is ziptied to the forks.
The front light is Thorn accessory bar mounted with 2 sets of gold connectors, one set for the dynohub wiring with 2 males to 2 females, one set for the rear light wiring which is 1 male and female to its opposite 1 female and male from the rear light. The rear cable is wound round the gear and rear brake cables under the top tube then snakes along the under top of the rear rack with a few zip ties.
The dynohub feed is AC so either front light feed wire can connect ok, but the rear light is DC so you must get the right wires connected - the rear connectors will only connect the right way round and can also be done in the dark by feel.
The gold connectors are crimped, no soldering, but work ok - I have been using them for about 2 years and remove the front light about once a day. I live in an area where someone else will remove the front light from the unattended bike if I do not!
Safe riding,
Julian.
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Lads can i just ask does it not make sense to go with one of the more modern head lights battery powered .like come to think of it how often do you ride your bike at night, and the new battery lights can last hours no problem at full beam well so i'm told.
ok i know the son dynmo is the dogs but it makes for a heaver wheel and you have all this hassle of running wires soldering and whatever.
yeah i know the dynmo can charge batteries as well but theres some good chargers out there that will do the job just as well ;)
i'm looking to make my sherpa a lighter faster bike i did concider dynamo front wheel but i dont do to many miles at night to be honest .anyway am i talking throuh my bottom bracket as usual or do i make som sense. ::)
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does it not make sense to go with one of the more modern head lights battery powered
For me the great thing about a dynamo is that it is ready to go without preparation or planning. Batteries need to be managed. A battery that just sits idle for a year is probably a dead battery and maybe even a battery leaking corrosive goo which has destroyed the whole light.
I think a dynamo makes increasingly better sense the *less* often a person uses it! Commuting every day in the dark, it is easy enough to keep a flow of rechargeable batteries going. It's when one is out and unexpectedly caught by the dark that having a dynamo light is really appreciated!
I have a "shaker" flashlight in my car, for just the same reason. I only use it once a year or so. It is always a bit of a fuss to get it going, but then it works. Every time I would put a battery flashlight in my car... by the time I needed it, the batteries had corroded the thing into oblivion!
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Jags,
That is just what one of my sons does, he uses an IXON IQ front light which gives an impressive light beam, as good as my dynamo light on an unlit country road, but as Jim says it needs the batteries to be managed.
I leave my front and rear lights on all the time. Modern leds in lamps have a lifetime longer than mine so no worries that way.
The drag from the dynamo is insignificant and I have the knowledge that traffic should see me sooner.
For me, gone are the days of battery worries or bulbs blowing.
julk.
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ok i can see your point about the convenience of a dynamo V batteries , but the cost of a new quality wheel build with dynmo and then you need to buy the head light to go with the dynamo ::)
and i would only put the batteries in the light when needed.
so to be honest i think it will be battery light for me. ;D
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but the cost
Yeah, whenever it gets really thick my girlfriend brings out the ultimate trump card... "and you spent XXXXX on a BICYCLE?!?!?!"
Hey, I could have bought Greek bonds instead!
My entire logical edifice is built on a foundation of air!
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Yeah, whenever it gets really thick my girlfriend brings out the ultimate trump card... "and you spent XXXXX on a BICYCLE?!?!?!"
Hey, I could have bought Greek bonds instead!
My entire logical edifice is built on a foundation of air!
I'm confused. Would it not simply be better to ask her about how many pairs of shoes she has - pointing out that the average male has, what, two pairs ... to seventy four. (and then ... run!) 8)