Thorn Cycles Forum
Community => Thorn General => Topic started by: Manuel on December 10, 2010, 09:39:46 PM
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Any feedback on the paintwork on recent Thorn Nomad's? I've come across a few posts on the web claiming that there have been some problems.
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You may have read about the old UK built ( & 'wet' painted ) derailleur geared model ? some of which were known to have delicate paint - The Taiwanese painted ones are durable powdercoated.
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Any feedback on the paintwork on recent Thorn Nomad's? I've come across a few posts on the web claiming that there have been some problems.
Hello
You should read more!
John
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Hello John,
I don't find your answer very helpful - it even seems quite defensive. Where should I read? I was actually asking for people's recent experience. What does the finished job look like? Any early problems - bad paintwork problems usually surface pretty quickly - or any more technical information, like how, exactly, are the various coats applied, how many etc.
Unfortunately, there is little about this on the Thorn pages.
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Manuel,
there have been differing views on the paint on Thorn cycles in the past, some are suggesting that it chips very easily etc. I have an Expr of which my only criticism is the clearcoat is extremely hard with no flexing in it. This gave me trouble around the seat post area where it started to become de- laminated from the base coat, not a major problem but still annoying. I have since resprayed the area with a single pack lacquer which has eliminated the problem altogether.
The overall attention to detail is very high, and the paint is applied and cured to high standard ( I do spraying myself on cars etc)
The best advice I could give is to also ask to buy a small tin of touch up at the time of ordering and use it whenever required. If you want a perfect finish then applying by Air brush is best, it depends how far you want to go. I did a small modification to my bottom bracket where I tig welded removeable insert bosses to it and i spent around 14hrs on it just on the paint to create a seamless blend of the paint and polishing a very deep gloss back in to it just because that's what I prefer.
http://www.photobox.co.uk/my/photo?album_id=169024701&photo_id=1892111382#1892111382
I would have thought a few more people may have come forward to give their views to give you a little more help, may be give it a few more days as the forum moves quite slow at times.
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I don't know anything useful to Manuel but if I ever need welding on my bike, I'll be giving Expr a call! -- AJ
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Hello John,
I don't find your answer very helpful - it even seems quite defensive. Where should I read? I was actually asking for people's recent experience. What does the finished job look like? Any early problems - bad paintwork problems usually surface pretty quickly - or any more technical information, like how, exactly, are the various coats applied, how many etc.
Unfortunately, there is little about this on the Thorn pages.
Hello
Thorn bikes. Hard powder coated frames as stated in the advertising. Nobody is complaining about the paintwork. The old models about 15 years ago had enamel paintwork and as such the modern cyclist complained that Thorn paintwork was not as good as Dawes etc. No problem at all these days. Buy a Mercian or other similar 'handbuilt' bike. The paint will fall off daily? Enamel is enamel. Thorn paintwork is powder coat. I stand by my original staement-read more!
John.
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The paint on my dropouts flaked off within six months and on the areas that are exposed to washers (the rack, cage and mudguard bosses) I'm not overly worried by this and on the bosses you wouldn't really notice. The frame and forks are fine.
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The serrations on wheel QR´s will always cause some damage to the paint on dropouts - So the Thorn Ravens have stainless steel rear dropouts - to prevent rusting.
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Thank you John for your fuller reply. One of the reports I did read was this from 2007, on a Taiwanese made frame: "Our test bike came in matt green, with military-style stencilled logos. But it's not as tough as the gloss black version, having flaked and chipped in a few places." So, not such an old report, and presumably powder coating. Unfortunately, what they say is vague, with no specifics, and left to the imagination - is it on the dropouts? the frame? the forks? - they don't say. Is it a big flake, or tiny? No mention - poor reviewing really.
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Thorn bikes. Hard powder coated frames as stated in the advertising. Nobody is complaining about the paintwork.
I am. The powdercoat on my 2008 Nomad is beyond laughable. Orange peel, chipped, flaked and scratched in a manner that would be disappointing on a bike from a supermarket let alone an upmarket tourer.
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I have a (blue) Club Tour purchased new in 2006. The paint work is no better than average. It's showing a lot more chips and scratches than my much older Trek 7000 MTB, which has seen a lot of use on unsealed roads, fire trails and the like here in Australia, which the CT hasn't.
Cheers,
pj (32 deg. Celsius outside... looking forrward to my ride home from work)
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I have a (blue) Club Tour purchased new in 2006. The paint work is no better than average. It's showing a lot more chips and scratches than my much older Trek 7000 MTB, which has seen a lot of use on unsealed roads, fire trails and the like here in Australia, which the CT hasn't.
Cheers,
pj (32 deg. Celsius outside... looking forrward to my ride home from work)
Try looking after the bike instead of chucking it about!
John
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Yeah, the paintwork on thorns still falls short of what you can reasonably expect. Its very frustrating that they can get so much right with the bikes and fail on something which should be easy. Its doubly frustrating as this has been a problem with their bikes for a long time.
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Try looking after the bike instead of chucking it about!
John
I do, and that is why my Mercian Audax is immaculate after 12 years! ;D
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John,
I think you've missed my point.
My Club Tour's use is restricted to sealed roads and I do treat it reasonably carefully. I use it for touring, commuting and Audax rides, so I don't expect the paint to be blemish free after 6 years... BUT my Trek is the bike that has had the rougher usage and its paint has held up better. It's also 5 or 6 years older than the CT.
By the way, I didn't actually criticise the CT's paintwork. I said it was average
Cheers,
pj
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Hello
Thorn bikes are powder coated and powder laquered over. ALL bike manufactures except tiddlers such as Mercian etc do the same with the same powder!
Point taken?
Please think about it, all car manufacturers paint their cars in the same way. I own a Mecedes which is 11 Yrears old and the paintwork is starting to look elderly. I cannot ever afford to buy another not even a used one, so I will look after it the same as I did with my bikes when I owned Thorn bikes. I cannot now ride due to illness but I sure would like to enable others to enjoy a quality bike. The powder coat is as good as any in my opinion looking most makes of bike around.
In passing I think that the bike in Australia wether or not the owner agrees, has had a hard life. Thorn bikes ridden around the World have a great finish when the tour has been done.
I cannot be bothered responded any further so I hope this will be the end of the conversation. I know I am correct and even Fred-AM does too!!!!
John.
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John,
It seems very clear to me that its your way or no way, I have personally been reading over your last 10-15 posts and have to say that the way in which you speak to people in a majority of cases is confrontational and rood.
It appears that you feel it necessary to talk down to people regardless of stature.
Lets have a look at your responses in general,
The first relates back to November 4th where quite clearly you are troubled by the fact that certain members were finding it difficult to get a direct bookmark to the forum in which your reply stated
“Have you got nothing better to talk about? Bookmark the link for goodness sake”
Not really a very positive and helpful answer is it, more of a sarcastic prompt!
Here is another quote where a discussion was taking place with regards to the Thorn paint on cycles where a member was asking what the paint was like on recent thorn nomads to which you answered,
“You should read more”
Again as far as I can logically suggest the member could not have of been in a more appropriate place to ask that question, the whole purpose of this forum is to collate all the applicable members for similar discussion of the same subject.
Again here is another recent post where a member is asking about the bottom bracket set up that is used by Thorn, to which you again further push the member not to use this forum for information but to look elsewhere as in you reply,
“Hello these type of bottom bracket have been used for years! Try reading more about them other than on here”
You further more suggest to other members that “they should not throw their bikes around” and that “YOU” are correct and “YOU” know it, let me tell you john you couldn't be further from the truth, you are egotistical, arrogant and self opinionated to the point that you have convinced yourself that it is acceptable to communicate with others in this way.
I will be putting a formal complaint in to sjs cycles and the forum administrators regarding your behaviour to the point that I feel after all the troubles you have caused in the past also along with your recent outbursts you should be removed.
As you have pointed out clearly that you no longer cycle, I see no point in you using this forum as a platform to shout your contemptuous and mocking suggestions.
I suggest you keep to your last statement where you suggest you cannot be bothered to respond any further to the Thorn paint post as I for one can certainly vote for the fact that I have just about had enough of reading your utter balderdash to the point that if you continue to remain on this forum then I for one will be leaving….
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Hold on a mo Expr. One of the things that keeps me coming back to the forum is to see what new offence John or Fred have caused.
James
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Yes! This is better than Survivor (Coronation Street). Don't lose heart Expr!!! Manuel can clearly take it.
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Well I,m sorry i didnt realize there was such a fan club for him suit yourselves my account is now finished.
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You don’t get rid of me that easily... the reason I took an interest in this thread is that I’m contemplating a custom repaint of one of my bikes as soon as my budget allows.. I will come to that shortly.
I’ve taken JohnJuly28’s advice to read more and I've been searching the net to see what I can find. First, though, I dug out my receipt for the Trek and realised that I've owned it longer than I thought. It's a 1993 model so it's about to enjoy a coming of age birthday! Anyway, a bit more research tells me that it was painted with DuPont Imron, which is a polyrethane enamel. The stuff is still available but I get the impression that it's no longer used for bicycles. My wife has a Trek of similar vintage, also painted with this stuff and they have both worn exceptionally well. A thorough wash and a touch of wax and they look almost new. Also, last year, I splashed out and bought a Pashley Moulton TSR 30. I've used it a lot for commuting and shorter Audax rides, so it's done around 8,000 kms. The paint is a dark burgundy and claims to be stove enamel. It is still pristine, but to be fair, the space frame construction doesn't present any great surface area to pick up chips or scratches.
Another bike in the stable is a circa 1986 Hillman (Small Australian manufacturer) made with Reynolds 531. I had it repainted 11 years ago by a local chap. It's been powder coated in a deep blue and the paint is still very good. As it should be , because as John points out in his earlier post ( a little shrilly I thought?)
ALL bike manufactures except tiddlers such as Mercian etc do the same with the same powder!
This being the case all powder coats should be pretty much equal, so I feel justified in my earlier statement that Thorn finishes are average. It wasn’t a criticism, just a statement of opinion.
The BIG disappointment is my pride and joy, a Bianchi Mega Pro SL. This was a 50th birthday present and has accordingly been coddled, bathed in ass's milk and blow dried after each Sunday ride. It's a lovely bike but the paint is reminiscent of a Fiat from the 60's. It's awfully thin and 10 years of use has made the bike look almost as old as me. I am guessing that the Bianchi is powder coated but can't be sure. The internet is distressingly silent on this.
Now... the point I need some help on is this: All my other bikes are relatively dark coloured but the Bianchi is the traditional Celeste and during my preliminary investigations I have been told that the pigment in the darker paints is more resilient and longer wearing than lighter colours. Does anyone out there have any knowledge on this? OR... is it that enamel is superior when it's good quality and applied properly?
It would be useful to hear your opinions on this before I commit my "Sunday" bike to the tender care of a painter as I am reluctant to depart from the 'celeste' paint but would do so if it meant a longer lasting finish..
Also, can someone is more ‘au fait’ with forum etiquette tell if I should start a new thread on this topic now I’ve moved away from a Thorn specific issue?
Thanks and Regards,
pj
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John,
It seems very clear to me that its your way or no way, I have personally been reading over your last 10-15 posts and have to say that the way in which you speak to people in a majority of cases is confrontational and rood.
It appears that you feel it necessary to talk down to people regardless of stature.
Lets have a look at your responses in general,
The first relates back to November 4th where quite clearly you are troubled by the fact that certain members were finding it difficult to get a direct bookmark to the forum in which your reply stated
“Have you got nothing better to talk about? Bookmark the link for goodness sake”
Not really a very positive and helpful answer is it, more of a sarcastic prompt!
Here is another quote where a discussion was taking place with regards to the Thorn paint on cycles where a member was asking what the paint was like on recent thorn nomads to which you answered,
“You should read more”
Again as far as I can logically suggest the member could not have of been in a more appropriate place to ask that question, the whole purpose of this forum is to collate all the applicable members for similar discussion of the same subject.
Again here is another recent post where a member is asking about the bottom bracket set up that is used by Thorn, to which you again further push the member not to use this forum for information but to look elsewhere as in you reply,
“Hello these type of bottom bracket have been used for years! Try reading more about them other than on here”
You further more suggest to other members that “they should not throw their bikes around” and that “YOU” are correct and “YOU” know it, let me tell you john you couldn't be further from the truth, you are egotistical, arrogant and self opinionated to the point that you have convinced yourself that it is acceptable to communicate with others in this way.
I will be putting a formal complaint in to sjs cycles and the forum administrators regarding your behaviour to the point that I feel after all the troubles you have caused in the past also along with your recent outbursts you should be removed.
As you have pointed out clearly that you no longer cycle, I see no point in you using this forum as a platform to shout your contemptuous and mocking suggestions.
I suggest you keep to your last statement where you suggest you cannot be bothered to respond any further to the Thorn paint post as I for one can certainly vote for the fact that I have just about had enough of reading your utter balderdash to the point that if you continue to remain on this forum then I for one will be leaving….
Apart from the not taking part because he no longer cycles, i have to agree. I've kept my opinions to myself since i joined, but yet again a discussion about Johns manners and attitude has emerged.
If you can't say anything helpful, why bother saying anything at all? If i was Manuel and read that reply, i would think "Fun you, ear hole" and not return.
John, whatever chip you have on your shoulder, it is souring your attitude and making the place unpleasant for others. You are, to put it politely, a flipping twit. Why not be friendly and considerate - surely this would be the best way to keep a link with the cycling community?
I've had enough of it.
Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year of cycling to you all!
Cheers, Gary.
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Expr, Not a fan club, just a / be mused onlookers. Sorry you've decided to bail as your posts were of the greatest interest. Any chance of reconsidering? James
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Are you there Expr?
I support Jimmer in his comments. Come back and enjoy the fun while giving us the benefit of your input.
Jimmer and Bearbait's emails wern't fanmail by my reading.
Cheers,
pj
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Mine was certainly not meant to be fan mail. I'm sorry it could have been read as so and be a part of Expr's departure. Come back - we miss you!
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as John points out in his earlier post ( a little shrilly I thought?)
ALL bike manufactures except tiddlers such as Mercian etc do the same with the same powder!
I think (With a bit more reading!) you'll find that John is wrong on this as well. ALL the major manufacturers use paint rather than powder coat, for bulk production it works out cheaper and less labout intensive.
Pack on thread... The powder coat on my Raven was OK, better than some frames I've had but not as good as others. It was a bit prone to stone chips, nothing drastic, just not as good as I was hoping.
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I think (With a bit more reading!) you'll find that John is wrong on this as well. ALL the major manufacturers use paint rather than powder coat, for bulk production it works out cheaper and less labout intensive.
Pack on thread... The powder coat on my Raven was OK, better than some frames I've had but not as good as others. It was a bit prone to stone chips, nothing drastic, just not as good as I was hoping.
I agree PH, In my opinion John can be somewhat blinkered in his point of view.
To clarify, powdercoat may well be more durable than enamel (I am no expert and don't have time to do extensive research), but in my opinion my RST powdercoat does not look as good as an enamel flamboyant or pearl finish. Further, if my enamel were to fall off I can get the frame restored quite easily without breaking the bank.
Essentially this is the same as comparing a Rohloff hub with a Campagnolo [work of art] transmission, each has its strengths and weaknesses - it depends what you are looking for. In my case, I have both and they both do their job. ;D
To summarise: Thorn/Rohloff is very good kit, but admiration for that does not merit trashing any alternative suggestions.
P.S. I also hope expr and Cake come back
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I know I will get in trouble for this so for the mods who will have to deal with it I apologise
John. Illness or no illness you seem to upset more people than any other member on this forum and you sir.... are an arse hat
It's about time the mods banned you permanently.. You have had short term bans before and clearly they have not worked... Mods you have given John several chances only for him to abuse the second/third and umpteenth chances.
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Hold on a mo Expr. One of the things that keeps me coming back to the forum is to see what new offence John or Fred have caused.
James
Bemused to see my good name dragged into this twice - fear not James, I'm still here.
John, I'm don't quite understand what I'm supposedly agreeing with you about despite not having made any contribution to the thread?
Ref paintwork, I've found the powdercoat on my nearly 5 year old RST to be fine, not perfect, but love the finish and it seems reasonably hard wearing.
Personally, I don't think John is worth leaving the forum for and I hope Xpr and Cake do return as I agree they are valuable contributors.
Merry Xmas!
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Merry Christmas!
I hope everyone, having stated their opinions about paint, can get over their differences or at least agree to differ in a friendly manner as this forum needs lots of contributions to make it useful and interesting and I'd be sad to see anyone leaving.
About paint quality. Well i think we all feel proud of our new bikes and want them to keep looking good and there's no doubt that some bike manufacturers do a better job than others. It's a fact though that you will over time get wear and tear on the bike just like with the skin on your face. Nothing lasts forever. If you can accept this, you'll start to worry about it less. Plus when your frame gets scratched and ugly you'll have the interesting experience of getting it re-sprayed ( in any colour you like) or buying a new bike!!!!!
Great excuse!!! If you ride a lot, I'd expect the bike not to look perfect after two or three year's riding whatever the quality of ( as Andy Blance likes to call it ) the showroom paint. If you've got a bike that still looks perfect after several years hard use that's bloody marvelous! Lucky you!!!
I have several bikes. My Schwinn aluminium mountain bike looked pretty when new but the gloss paint chips so easily it's ridiculous.
It's an everyday bike so I don't worry about it.
My Kona mountain bike seems to have a similar glossy finish but it's tougher and doesn't chip so easily, So I think the quality of the paint does vary by manufacturer.
My Thorn Sterling is powdercoated green and even after touring shows no scratches or chips amazingly. Seems more than tough enough. But not pretty. I don't mind and the colour has grown on me.
My raven Tour singlespeed has a super radical green paintwork and in my opinion, looks beautiful. I'm unsure if it's powdercoat or glossy enamel but I'm guessing the latter. I only ride this at weekends for fun. So far ( I'm more careful with this bike since it has a carbon fork )
I find the best protection for the paint is to cover especially vulnerable areas with transparent tape which can be peeled off later. You only need just a little of this in key areas. After each ride i wipe the frame with detail polish by finish line. It coats the surface a little and brings up the colour. other than that I don't do much and the bikes seem to hold up well. I've had no problems with the paint coming off so far.
I think the thing you have to be careful of is not chipping the paint with hard objects like...a lock ( usually the biggest culprit) or something you lean the bike against. I always use a chainstay protector which i actually wrap around the top tube. Then if I lean the bile against a post I always use this protected part of the bike.
I don't think it pays to get TOO obsessive about the paint. Enjoying the ride is much better than looking at the bike.
Of course the ultimate solution is to have a black bike because you can easily touch it up with a bit of enamel. I like colours though so that's not an option for me.And I will say I wish Thorn would offer a few more color options for their range than they do, if customers were willing to pay extra.
I think....finally...instead of worrying about the paint that comes with the bike it would be very helpful if owners of bikes on this forum would chip in with tips and advice for keeping the paint you already have on your bike in good condition.
Happy new Year, good riding to you all.
SJJ
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HI Peter,
I will try and help with what experiences I have had with paint and this may help in your decision to make a choice on colour and paint type.
I have used many types of paint in the past for varying jobs and purposes including bikes, cars, industrial equipment etc.. and each paint has its own niche.
I have recently sprayed the wife's bonnet wings and grill due to a rather large object being in the way ie:
another car!!!!
This was using Lechler single pack BSB base coat and a single pack lacquer which has turned out fantastic. Ive also has the experience of using two pack paint which is even better in its results and application although time is of the essence with this type of paint, the durability of paint is vast from type to type but also similar to same due to whom ever has mixed it how it was cured and finally finished.
If you were to look at a chart of differing manufactures of the same type of paint you would see a vast amount of difference in paint hardness , the German made automotive trade uses a very hard finish which although promoted durability to the highest it, it is very difficult to remove imperfections using conventional buffing techniques, conversely people like Honda use a very soft finish paint which scratches and marrs very easily but is easy to correct.
Urethane paint and its derivatives polyurethane are very good paints in their own right for the purpose they serve along with enamel , which can also come under the same umbrella as the enamel in name terminology.
Enamel has become known to be very ornate and takes a very high gloss shine to its finish, with admirable durability. Powder coating which is what is used on the thorn bikes has certainly proved to me to be very durable much like the German paint that I referred to earlier, although as I suggested in my earlier post I have had my problems with it delaminating from the base coat around the seat post area, my fix for that was to put a single pack lacquer around the area and blend this in with a hand paste later, much like t-cut but much better.
I too have tried to expand my knowledge with regards to pigment amount and colour in terms of what can be expected back from its longevity and to no avail do I have anything positive to add, albeit that I have not ever come across anything to suggest otherwise, so I will keep looking out for that one.
Given the knowledge that I have had over the years with paint and the different options that are out there I would go for a powder coat finish with heavy clearcoat on top, this style of covering I have also found easy to airbrush Bsb base coat and single pack lacquer over as i have done a few times now on my expr which is finished in ivory and deep black billiard Que.
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I have had bikes, boats and a car most of my life.
The paint and varnish on boats has the hardest life in my experience, physical damage, salt and sunshine are the major enemies.
Red paint has the worst performance in my experience, dulling well before other colours. Sad, because I like the colour.
I have bought 2 Thorn bikes, both enamel painted rather than powder coated, they have been excellent except for me damaging the paint by accidents such as dropping a saw on one. Touch up with humbrol enamel is simple although limited in the colour choices.
If I was painting a bike from scratch I would use a 2 pack polyurethane if I wanted the hardest finish.
Fussy paint though if the surface is not thoroughly cleaned. I once accidentally put a hand on my boat before painting and the paint sanded off later in a hand shape just where I had touched it!
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Welcome back, expr
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Indeed welcome back
I have seen over on retro bike uk a chap use nothing more than two tins of hammerite smooth and the finish wasn't bad.
Given that Thorns are meant to be hard graft tourers it's not suprising many have a hard life and look a bit rough but I feel thats one of the advantages of a Thorn in that because they are not cheap you should only buy one if you expect it to be with you for a time and if thats the case when it's time for a little love to be shown it will return you with many more years of service.
In the past I've used a car spraying company, a powder coating company and diy sprayed frames. For a peach finish I would use the two pack as suggested and possibly if you want a lush finish let a proper sprayer do it. If you want a rugged hard wearing finish then powder coat is the only way to go...orrrr..try diy and if it goes tits up then try option one or two ;D
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Thanks everybody for your advice.
I have to admit to not being a DIY painter so I will be using the services of a professional. But now I will have a better understanding of what I'm being told and be able to make a better informed decision.
And welcome back Expr!
Regards to all and a happy and bicycle friendly 2011.
pj
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With regard to paint, I can report that at least here in the US, it is possible to obtain a perfect match for my 2011 Sherpa's Matte Black paint through the use of Krylon brand No. 1613 Semi-Flat black spray paint.
It is widely available at the Wal-Mart chain of stores nationwide, and is a bit over USD$3 in price.
I recently used it to touch up my dropouts where the axle nuts have scraped away the powdercoat, and found the best way to apply it was to shake the can well, spray a small quantity into a discarded plastic cream cheese carton, then use either a cotton swab (for large areas; it is self-leveling) or a 0000 camel-hair paint brush (for fine touch-up work). The finished repair dries down to a perfect match not only in color, but also to the correct matte finish, making for an undetectable touchup.
While powdercoated finishes are remarkably tough, it pays to touch up any nicks sharpish, as any rust forming on the bare steel can "tunnel" beneath the remaining powdercoat, causing a great deal of damage.
To prevent scuffs in the first place, I use Trimbrite T9005 Blackout tape, intended for restoring the matte-black trim surrounding automobile windshields. It is stable, uses a low-creep adhesive, and can be repositioned or removed if needed for up to a week or two after application. Best of all, it is a dead match for color and tone against my Sherpa's matte black paint and is virtually invisible, even in photographs. Just the thing for preventing my bar-end cable housings from eating away the paint on either side of the head tube. I use scissors to cut out tape circles about the size of a US25-cent coin. The rounded edges prevent lifting or peeling. Though thin, this tape is also pretty tough and can even withstand repeated automatic carwashes (not that I intend to try *that* with my Sherpa!). The tape is readily available nationwide in the US at Reilly and similar auto-parts chains and from online vendors such as Amazon ( http://www.amazon.com/Trimbrite-T9005-Black-Out-Tape/dp/B00029XD62 ) for USD$3-$5 plus shipping for a sizable roll.
Hope this helps.
Best,
Dan.