Thorn Cycles Forum
Community => Rohloff Internal Hub Gears => Topic started by: kevin_allen on June 15, 2022, 07:08:32 AM
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I’m getting use to my Rohloff, changes nice and smooth with the briefest of peddling pauses. I have got caught out a few times on hills. Either it adds a steep bit in I didn’t see or miss judged which of the 14 gears was best. The brief peddling pause doesn’t appear to be enough going uphill, it vaults and refuses to move. On a couple of occasions I have had to stop and select a lower gear. At the moment I’m unloaded but can see the problem being increased with a touring load. Any tips other than getting it right in the first place?
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How much effort are you needing to use to change gear? My experience is that I can shift down one gear in less than one second although shifting multiple gears can take slightly longer as the constraint is the time to twist my wrist. I can downshift one gear on a steep hill without losing significant momentum during a small pause when the cranks are vertical.
Your bike isn't new and the shift system may be needing some maintenance. For example, if you have the external shift box then it needs to be well packed with grease. I assume that you've done an oil change on the Rohloff hub so you know it's been done. If not, then do so.
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I’m in the habit of changing down two gears at a time on steep hills just to keep the pedals spinning at a comfortable, knee
-saving cadence for as long as possible. Then it’s usually one gear at a time until I run out of gears! From my limited knowledge of the TDF there are riders who are natural hill climbers. I’m not one of those and if I have to get off and push I will. I’m in no hurry.
Psycologically, I find it a good idea not to focus on the top of the hill (who knows it might be a false summit!) rather I keep my head down and focus on small things on the road a few yards ahead so I’m breaking the effort into small achievable chunks.
I don’t know what your current chainring/sprocket sizes are but If you’re thinking that your current setup will be too highly geared for loaded touring then with the Rohloff it’s an easy matter to change the front chainring and/or rear sprocket to gear down.
I’ve got a 40T/17T setup on 26” wheels which is low ( 17 gear inches to about 89gear inches). For a loaded tour I’d probably change that so I’ve got a 15 gear inch low gear. Even then I wouldn’t expect to pedal up every hill. The Rohloff is a great bit of kit but it’s not a silver bullet for pedalling up every hill so why burst a blood vessel trying.
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Sorry I don't recognise the problem, one of the biggest advantages of a Rohloff for me is the ability to change down quickly and reliably on a hill.
As has already been said it should be changing with ease in under a second, if you don't have the momentum to carry you through that, then you've left it too late, but that would be even more so on a derailleur bike.
When you do change, having your predominant leg at about 1 o'clock, as you would from a standing start, might help. As might putting maximum effort into the revolution before. If I find my cadence falling below a sustainable level, I'll sometimes change up a gear, stand and honk to increase speed, sit and immediately drop a couple of gears. But ideally I wouldn't find myself in that position and I certainly wouldn't be confident could do that on a derailleur bike.
Maybe it's just a question of familiarity, the way I ride is slightly different, but IMO the advantages are all on the Rohloff's side, I tend to forget this till I go back to a derailleur bike.
General hill climbing "Tricks" though I'm not sure you're asking for them:
Count your pedal strokes and put extra effort into the third, one, two, THREE, one, two, THREE, one, two, THREE ... When that gets tiring, make it the fifth. That one extra thrust will help carry you through the next.
If you have stability issues, particularly the front wheel lifting, bend your elbows 90 degrees. It's incredibly difficult to lift the front wheel, even loaded on a hill, unless you're pulling up on the bars. Bending you elbows means your always pulling back instead. I know there are those who disagree, I used to be one of them!
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I just get off and walk if the hill is too steep. I even had to do that on the climb out of Malham Cove on an E-Bike ! (Wished at the time I'd bought the one with the Rohloff not the Vario )
;D ;D
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Thanks, I’ll monitor my changing. I have this very morning done an oil change. Which type of grease for the Rohloff box?
I suspect the changing is me not coordinating feet and hand as well as I think I am. Enjoying the bike and Rohloff a lot. My last ride I was determined not to go as fast, anytime over 20kmh I stopped peddling 😎
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Thanks, I’ll monitor my changing. I have this very morning done an oil change. Which type of grease for the Rohloff box?
See http://thorncyclesforum.co.uk/index.php?topic=13718.0 about ex-box maintenance.
Practice improves the gear shifting until it becomes a reflex action. Every now and again (less than once per 100 miles) I get it wrong and either lose a lot of momentum on a hill or try to shift under load (which doesn't sound good).
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It's a problem I recognise (new-ish Rohloff owner, with about 400 miles of mostly off-road, hilly riding). It's particularly a problem when the hill really kicks up unexpectedly and you are in way the wrong gear. I think this sometimes results from having developed a slightly laissez-faire mindset I learned quickly from having an IGH vs decades with a derailleur system - when I come to a stop, for example, I now no longer look ahead to figure out what gear I should get myself into BEFORE stopping, as I would with a derailleur. With Rohloff, I just stop, and when ready to restart, select the appropriate gear before pedalling again.
This perfectly reasonable mindset is problematic when it makes me a bit more casual when approaching an incline, so I occasionally find myself in gear 10 or 11, when I need (or will soon need) to be in gear 1, 2, or 3. The problem then is you can't even get a "kick" by pushing hard on the pedal before changing, because you're just in too high a gear to get the momentum to have a "pause" to change gear. In other words, you're stuffed!
I think the solution is to focus more carefully when approaching an incline, and remembering that a Rohloff isn't a magic bullet.
[I should clarify that I'm talking about inclines of 10% to 20%; on lesser inclines I always have the strength to give a boost-kick sufficient to get a gear pause.]
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It really only takes a very short part of a second to slow your cadence for a shift. You just have to think about what you are doing.
Sometimes if I am going up a steep hill and want to downshift, I shift when my pedal is at the highest point so that I have almost no torque on it at the time I shift. It might take a bit of practice on flatter ground to get used to trying to time your shift to where your pedal is on the stroke.
I started bicycling on three speed Sturmey Archer bikes and later on friction shifting derailleur bikes that lacked the modern ramps and pins for shifting aids. So, on all bikes I am used to easing up on my pedaling pressure when I shift, as that is how I learned to shift years ago. That is a good habit to get into.
The newer derailleur bikes with ramps and pins are encouraging newer bikers to learn bad shifting habits.
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This perfectly reasonable mindset is problematic when it makes me a bit more casual when approaching an incline, so I occasionally find myself in gear 10 or 11, when I need (or will soon need) to be in gear 1, 2, or 3. The problem then is you can't even get a "kick" by pushing hard on the pedal before changing, because you're just in too high a gear to get the momentum to have a "pause" to change gear. In other words, you're stuffed!
My tendency is to shift 3 gears at a time (with some pedalling in between the shifts) until I've really slowed down. eg, if conditions change quickly from downhill to steep uphill then it's 14 -> 11 -> 8 -> 5 and then 4, 3 and occasionally 2 (1st is the big surprises - I can usually get up 15% in 3rd gear at about 3mph).
If you are frequently using the lowest gears then the overall gearing may need to be reduced.
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This perfectly reasonable mindset is problematic when it makes me a bit more casual when approaching an incline, so I occasionally find myself in gear 10 or 11, when I need (or will soon need) to be in gear 1, 2, or 3. The problem then is you can't even get a "kick" by pushing hard on the pedal before changing, because you're just in too high a gear to get the momentum to have a "pause" to change gear. In other words, you're stuffed!
My tendency is to shift 3 gears at a time (with some pedalling in between the shifts) until I've really slowed down. eg, if conditions change quickly from downhill to steep uphill then it's 14 -> 11 -> 8 -> 5 and then 4, 3 and occasionally 2 (1st is the big surprises - I can usually get up 15% in 3rd gear at about 3mph).
If you are frequently using the lowest gears then the overall gearing may need to be reduced.
My overall gearing is perfectly fine for my needs, and my gear shifting is (almost) perfectly fine. It's just that occasionally when I'm not focusing, I very quickly find myself in the highest gear on a 10% or higher slope. I've been doing mainly group rides, and the predicament usually arises when I have to suddenly slow down at the bottom of a hill, because somebody ahead has slowed right down. Then no amount of effort on my part can give me enough forward motion to get the "pause" necessary to move down - and even then, 14th to 11th doesn't really help any.
The working solution is to just stop and move down to about 4th or 5th, to get moving again.
It's a judgement issue, that just requires more focus on my part.
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I've been doing mainly group rides, and the predicament usually arises when I have to suddenly slow down at the bottom of a hill, because somebody ahead has slowed right down. Then no amount of effort on my part can give me enough forward motion to get the "pause" necessary to move down - and even then, 14th to 11th doesn't really help any.
It's a judgement issue, that just requires more focus on my part.
I suggest that you make a conscious effort to downshift several gears every time you slow down. In time this will become a subconscious habit and puts you into more suitable gearing to either accelerate (and then upshift) or to do further downshifting.
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Get into the lowest and go up.
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Mountains are fun
They're hill areas.
:)
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Then no amount of effort on my part can give me enough forward motion to get the "pause" necessary to move down - and even then, 14th to 11th doesn't really help any.
The working solution is to just stop and move down to about 4th or 5th, to get moving again.
It's a judgement issue, that just requires more focus on my part.
You need more practice. That is all. I can't imagine that it is less troublesome to stop and shift and start out than it is to quickly shift.
And if you are following too close, then maybe do not follow that close.
Did you get your grease question answered?
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Then no amount of effort on my part can give me enough forward motion to get the "pause" necessary to move down - and even then, 14th to 11th doesn't really help any.
The working solution is to just stop and move down to about 4th or 5th, to get moving again.
It's a judgement issue, that just requires more focus on my part.
You need more practice. That is all. I can't imagine that it is less troublesome to stop and shift and start out than it is to quickly shift.
And if you are following too close, then maybe do not follow that close.
Did you get your grease question answered?
I'm not really following closely per se, it's situations where the person in front just comes to a sudden stop (or when going uphill at medium speed, the person in front suddenly slows right down - often, it's a chain reaction started further up the line). Riding in groups is a lot more unpredictable, especially when it's a group of riders who don't know each other. As you say, and as I alluded to, it's a case of practice/needing to focus more. I never have the same problem when riding by myself.
Hmmmm, grease question ... I must have had a sleep since then, because I can't remember it! ;-) I'll take a look-see if I can find it and reply to your uery.
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The grease question is answered here http://thorncyclesforum.co.uk/index.php?topic=13718.0.
I do most of my cycling alone and agree that if cycling behind others then more concentration is needed on what they are doing. I prefer to leave a good gap although that's not always possible. Nonetheless, developing subconscious downshifting when slowing will come with time as it's better to be in a gear lower than optimum than in a gear too high.
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If others slow down so much that you do not have the small fraction of a second that it takes to downshift your Rohloff to get to a lower gear, I am wondering how everyone else that is riding a derailleur bike can downshift to the gear they need to keep rolling.
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If others slow down so much that you do not have the small fraction of a second that it takes to downshift your Rohloff to get to a lower gear, I am wondering how everyone else that is riding a derailleur bike can downshift to the gear they need to keep rolling.
These situations I'm describing have all been on very gnarly, unpredictable steep hills (off-road) - and other riders were having similar problems with derailleur-fitted bikes. If it were on a road, the only thing I'd need to worry about are gear changes, but when you're riding the Trans Cambrian Way, for example (last week), there is a lot of other stuff going on in the unpredictable terrain. We're not exactly in a nice, smooth paceline on tarmac.
But going back to my original, earlier point, the main underlying problem is that I have found myself "turning off" (mentally) with the Rohloff because it is generally more forgiving compared to a derailleur-equipped bike - especially in that you can switch from 14th to 1st at a standstill before starting off.
On a derailleur bike, I'm constantly anticipating what gear I need to get into for what's up ahead. On the Rohloff, you can switch off to a large extent, and as I already said, I've found this lulling me into a false sense of security when really, I should be focusing more and anticipating. Just practice and better familiarity is all that's needed. For every one of the (few) situations where I mess up on a hill, there are dozens of others where the Rohloff has saved me, in comparison to my derailleur-equipped colleagues.
But when I get it wrong, I must say the Rohloff protests to the point it makes me cringe. On a derailleur bike, you can force the bike into another gear under load - even though the bike doesn't like it!
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These situations I'm describing have all been on very gnarly, unpredictable steep hills (off-road) ...
A couple stories from a couple trips on shifting Rohloff hubs on difficult terrain. I built up my Nomad Mk II in 2013. Although Thorn strongly recommends flat or upright bars for that bike, I chose drop bars. In a strong headwind, I can't imagine not using drop bars. Initially I had my shifter about 4 inches (~~ 10 cm) to the right of the steerer tube below the top of the handlebars.
In 2014, a friend of mine organized a group trip from our community (Madison, WI, USA) to White Rim Trail in Canyonlands. That is a 4X4 road that is popular for mountain biking. There were 10 of us. The ones that did not own mountain bikes rented, those that owned them brought theirs from home. I chose instead of renting to see how my Nomad Mk II could handle a tough trail. It was strongly advised that I rent a real mountain bike, or at a minimum get a suspension fork and suspension seatpost for my Nomad. I got lucky and found a new-old-stock fork that had an uncut steerer that would work. And used a cheap telescoping seatpost that was not very good. Thus, there were 10 of us, 9 had full suspension mountain bikes, while I had my Nomad Mk II with suspension fork and seatpost.
Bike worked great but without rear suspension and without much of a suspension on the saddle, there were times the mountain bikes flew past me. But I REALLY liked the Rohloff, as my shifts were nearly instantaneous, whereas a derailleur bike has to travel at least a half a wheel circumference in distance for the chain to finish moving to the adjacent sprocket. And I did not have to think about which shifter to shift, front or rear since the Rohloff has a single sequential shifter. But, I did not like the position of the shifter, as there were times on difficult terrain that I wanted my hands on the outer part of the handlebars for better steering leverage, but I was not able to shift with my hands out where I had leverage. First photo, the shifter is just to the right of the steerer tube, when i had my hand on the shifter I had no leverage on steering.
And in 2016 I packed up my touring gear and Nomad Mk II and went to Iceland. In the interior there were some really rough roads. When you see a rock in the road that is smaller than a tennis ball, you don't bother trying to steer around it, that says something about the road. There were times that I was trying to pedal up a steep hill and wanted to downshift, but it was difficult terrain and I needed leverage for steering, my shifter was in the same place as before. One day I was half way up a hill where I really wanted to downshift, but did not want to move my hand to the shifter, I decided when I got home, my shifter was going to get moved to the end of my handlebar, thus I would be able to shift while also being able to steer. I made that change within a month of getting home on that trip. Second photo, rough road with lots of rock, third photo - hard to see but my shifter was still where is was before.
And with my new shifter position using the HubBub adapter, fourth photo. Shifter on the end of my handlebar, right side.
My point is that in my opinion the Rohloff is one of the best gearing systems you can have in difficult terrain. Yeah, the mountain bike racers would never dream of something that weighs that much, but for us recreational riders that are not in a race, you can't beat it. But, it took me a few trips to realize that I needed to move my shifter to where my hands were going to be when traveling difficult terrain.
I think you just need some practice in shifting to get it all sorted out.
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But, I did not like the position of the shifter, as there were times on difficult terrain that I wanted my hands on the outer part of the handlebars for better steering leverage, but I was not able to shift with my hands out where I had leverage.
One day I was half way up a hill where I really wanted to downshift, but did not want to move my hand to the shifter, I decided when I got home, my shifter was going to get moved to the end of my handlebar, thus I would be able to shift while also being able to steer. I made that change within a month of getting home on that trip. Second photo, rough road with lots of rock, third photo - hard to see but my shifter was still where is was before.
And with my new shifter position using the HubBub adapter, fourth photo. Shifter on the end of my handlebar, right side.
I also use drop handlebars on most of my bikes, but I probably do demanding off-road riding much less frequently.
I went through a similar process. I initially had the Rohloff shifter on a stem-mounted extension bar underneath and parallel to the middle part of the drop bar on the right-hand side.
After a while I moved it to a Hubbub adapter on the right-hand bar end, this position was easier for me to reach when riding on the brake lever hoods, which is where my hands are most of the time. This move was for convenience, not because I had encountered any problems when riding off-road. After about 30 years using bar-end derailleur shifters this position just seemed more natural for me.
I also have a Brompton folding bike with a Rohloff. There is not enough length to fit the Rohloff twist-grip AND a brake lever on the straight part of the M-type handlebar I have on my Brompton, so I have the shifter on a Brompton lamp mount under the raised outer part of the bar, angled slightly backwards to leave enough room for my hand to clear the handlebar. This position is OK for me on that bike. Of course, with it's small wheels and relatively narrow tyres, the Brompton is very rarely used on difficult off-road terrain.
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My preferred handlebars are Ergotec AHS which are effectively straight bars with U-shaped bar ends. All the controls are on the straight part of the bars which is where my hands are, on average, 80% of the time so the Rohloff shifter is under my right hand waiting to be used. The front part of the bars provide an alternative hand/arm position with slightly less wind drag but I only use that position if there's a clear road ahead.
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I have just made the switch to a Rohloff after years on derailleur equipped bikes.
I've found it easier to change down the gears more often and at a slightly earlier point than I would have done on a derailleur system. This means I am still spinning rather than mashing
I have had only had to stop a couple of times when climbing, both times was when trying to change from gear 8 to gear 7 when pedaling relatively slowly. If you miss time this change you can end up in gear 14. If your quick enough when this happens a longer pause on the next revolution and dumping 3 or 4 gears can sometimes save you having to stop.
The shifting gets easier with practice. After a while it just becomes muscle memory and you don't really have to think about it.
Whatever system you ride, you can get caught out. At least with the Rohloff you can change when stationary and don't need to lift the back wheel to get back into an appropriate gear. I see this as an advantage especially when carrying a load.
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It's easy.
Look/ think ahead.
Drop your gears as you go up slightly more than you think you'll need.
If it's going pear shaped ( why are pears bad? ), step off. No shame and you'll have learned a lesson for the next hill.
I think mountains are hill areas.
Best
Matt
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Since I was 19 (I'm 62 now), one of my favorite cycling activities has been ridge-running/pass hunting. Where I live is surrounded by mountain range foothills on three sides, opening to flat farmland (and stiff headwinds after 10:00) to the north, so cycling on steep gravel access and logging roads, animal trails, singletrack and cross-country uphill has long been part of the fun when I'm not putting in long distances on tarmac. The views afforded from the summits are always worth the effort and make it worthwhile to pack a small pair of binoculars to get the most of it.
This last Sunday, I did a ride in the Thurston Hills near me using my Enduro-Allroad bike equipped with derailleur gearing and a bottom gear of 22x36 or 16 gear-inches, comparable to my Nomad's 36x17 or 15 gear-inches. I enjoyed it so much, I went back today ("For science!") on my Rohloff-equipped Nomad Mk2 to see for myself how (my) techniques varied for the two bikes. Both are equipped with tires having no or little tread -- Innova Swiftor road slicks and Schwalbe Duremes, both in 26x2.0 width and carrying equal pressures of 29psi/1.99bar front, 39psi/2.68bar rear. Each bike carried 2l of water at the time. Both bikes are equipped with Thudbuster Long Travel seatposts which allow me to remain seated as long as possible in rough terrain, ensuring the rear tire remains pressed down by my body weight to aid traction.
Perhaps because it was so steep -- initial grade was 17%, steepest was 26% -- I didn't find much difference in technique though I shifted between the bottom 3-4 gears as terrain allowed. The dried mud and flattened meadow grass offered even less traction than the looser sections of gravel.
Once underway, the gearing was sufficient for me to proceed on the unladen bikes while pedaling. The rub came when I stopped and had to restart. With weight on the saddle it required 3-4 restarts to gain sufficient traction to pull myself and the bikes forward. Otherwise it was fairly easy to pedal the bikes out from under or simply spin the rear wheel. Road slicks made it a bigger challenge but extra fun for me as I always enjoy honing my bike skills. Out-of-saddle starts were often impossible in my 2nd or 3rd lowest gears; there just wasn't enough weight on the rear wheel to prevent traction loss. Upshifting shortly after starting avoided over-revving but were problematic engaging while at rest for the derailleur bike. It might have been better for each bike with knobby-treaded tires but that comparison will have to wait for another day. :)
I'm a spinner, so made up for the low gears with a high cadence and maintained a ground speed of about 3.5mph/5.6kms. I always follow the maxim, "Allow the hill to come to you, rather than coming to it", meaning I pick a cadence and shift to keep it as constant as possible. My preferred cadence is 110-120rpm and I try never to let it drop below 85rpm to spare my knees strain. As a result, I tend to rev up a bit before a shift so I can drop a gear cleanly and not under much or any load as my cadence drops. I never or almost never shift my derailleur or Rohloff drivetrains under load, anticipate the steeper sections and shift in advance, and "float" the shift by making it while I can still spin under less pressure. I avoid over-revving by allowing forward progress to ease as the hill increases slope.
In direct comparison, the two drivetrains shifted equally well using this technique but the Rohloff shifts were considerably faster -- as close to instant as I could want. In contrast, the derailleur drivetrain occurred as early as every quarter-turn when the shift ramps and gates lined up. The difference wasn't much in time but in practice it was huge in feel and I much preferred the Rohloff's immediate engagement. Also, for those times when it was preferable to restart in a higher gear, the derailleur bike needed to be lifted and the drivetrain spun while shifting to select it. The Rohloff, of course, simply needed a twist of the shifter while at rest; startup was in whatever gear I pleased. This didn't matter much when unladen but is a huge convenience factor when the bikes are heavily laden with full touring kit (duh!).
On balance, I found both drivetrains to be pretty much equal for riding technique and function, but the Nomad's Rohloff got the nod for convenience when upshifting underway or when selecting a higher gear from rest.
One huge factor favoring the Nomad for me is its lack of rear derailleur cage. This is always a worry when proceeding cross-country on a derailleur bike as I don't want to wind up a bunch of grass or have a stick flip into the chain and so end up damaging chain, derailleur, or hanger. This is yet another reason why the Nomad's Rohloff makes it my expedition bike of choice as nothing hangs down in harm's way and I have occasionally found pencil-sized small sticks snapped in two by the chain and sprocket, noticed only by the sharp noise that results as I plow ahead unhindered.
For science!*
Best, Dan.
*Yes, I know this was a far from scientific test, but it was a fun comparison between roughly similar bikes with different drivetrains on the same terrain and riding them made me aware of how similar yet different they are.
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I have had only had to stop a couple of times when climbing, both times was when trying to change from gear 8 to gear 7 when pedaling relatively slowly. If you miss time this change you can end up in gear 14. If your quick enough when this happens a longer pause on the next revolution and dumping 3 or 4 gears can sometimes save you having to stop.
The Rohloff gear shifting improves with the miles which, I assume, is due to smoothing the corners of the gears (you'll see a metallic glint to the oil when you come to change it). The 8 to 7 shift involves the maximum number of gears changing inside the hub at the same time. I've found that dropping from 8 to 6 tends to be easier.
I'm a spinner, so made up for the low gears with a high cadence and maintained a ground speed of about 3.5mph/5.6kms. I always follow the maxim, "Allow the hill to come to you, rather than coming to it", meaning I pick a cadence and shift to keep it as constant as possible. My preferred cadence is 110-120rpm and I try never to let it drop below 85rpm to spare my knees strain.
I can't get above 95rpm even downhill under a light load while my legs are happiest going uphill at about 40rpm. I'm not (yet) worried about my knees which were complaining about running and find cycling much less demanding.
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Just wanted to update my previous comments on this issue. I have recently completed 1,000+ miles and 68k feet of ascent of Land's End to John O'Groats and did not have a single issue with a complaining hub during uphill ascents. As you can imagine, over the LEJOG route, I encountered everything in terms of steepness of the gradient, rate of increase in gradient, length of ascent, etc. Two things that were different about this 19-day "ride" were (a) I was always on road surface, albeit this was sometimes a bit lumpy! and (b) I was rarely following others closely.
This tells me that the prior problems that I described were mainly due to having to adjust quickly to whatever somebody in front did unexpectedly, and to unpredictable surfaces.
I should also add that my heavy steel fully-rigid Smithy Mule adventure bike with Rohloff IGH trumped every other bike and rider (N = 10 including me). I was the only person who rode every ascent without stopping or walking, and the only person who also completed the route. The final 52-mile day from Bettyhill to John O'Groats was brutal - yellow weather warning, heavy rain almost all day, and 60 mph gusts attempting to blow us off the road. The 4 besides me who attempted the final day (without any support - the outfit who were leading the LEJOG tour refused to provide support) found that their lighter road bikes, with carbon wheels and aero spokes, were being blown around like kites. Three of them abandoned after 11 miles in 3 hrs (they walked most of it, including downhills). After getting grief for my unfashionable-looking bike on many days, I felt fully redeemed at the end, and did receive some begrudging appreciation of my bike and my efforts from the roady-riding element of the group.
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Wow! Pretty serious test of bike, hub and rider.
Similarly serious endorsement of all three -- "well done!" hardly does justice to your ride. Hope you can live with considered understatement ;)
And a second-thought PS: whatever those "steep hill tricks" might be, I'm guessing you've mastered them. ;)
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Well done!!
Sounds like the tortoise and hare fable again!!
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Glad the bikes working well for you. Not sure it would be my first choice for an on-road LEJoG, but it's not me riding!
Yes, the Rohloff in a close group can put you out of step with other bikes, that's the case even on road, I had someone nearly run into the back of me on a recent club run when I eased off to make a shift... a 50/50 error...
The last day of your trip sound horrendous, well done for completing. Hard call to make in such conditions, for riders and crew, I don't know what I'd have done, I certainly wouldn't criticise those who sat it out.
On my JoGLE, we struggled into a gale over Drumochter Pass, from Dalwhinnie heading to Pitlochery, five hours to cover 25 miles, some of it struggling to walk the bikes against the wind, then for the last five miles the skies cleared, the wind disappeared and the sun came out. We could have spent three hours over lunch and arrived at the same time...
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Congratulations on the LEGO.
It's on my to do list...
Back to original question:
What is the most efficient way to climb a hill?
Or rather, the way to express the least amount of energy?
I imagine a slow accent, arriving at the top at a very slow speed. And then coasting down.
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Congratulations on the LEGO.
It's on my to do list...
Back to original question:
What is the most efficient way to climb a hill?
Or rather, the way to express the least amount of energy?
I imagine a slow accent, arriving at the top at a very slow speed. And then coasting down.
The original question was about gear changes on hills, but nevertheless:
Yes (to your suggested answer). Low gear, high-ish cadence uphill will allow you to stay below your anaerobic threshold and climb comfortably and therefore more efficiently (but see * below), and of course, coasting is the most efficient way to ride downhill, by your definition of "least energy".
* the possible exception is if you are going so slowly that you are weaving around, trying to control steering and maintain balance.
** the answer assumes you are asking about physical activity energy expenditure (not total energy expenditure). In terms of total energy expenditure, a slow climb (because it takes longer) will consume more basal energy expenditure so higher total energy expenditure. But it all cancels out in the end - because you burn basal energy at essentially the same rate during all waking hours, regardless of whether you take two hours to climb, or one hour plus an hour sitting drinking coffee at the hilltop cafe.
Anyway, original Q wasn't about physiological efficiency, so I'll stop there rather than lead the thread astray.
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Matt,
Some thoughts on your question about climbs:
What is the most efficient way to climb a hill?
Or rather, the way to express the least amount of energy?
From my experience, another e-word comes into play: enjoyment.
Your followup implicitly takes you there:
I imagine a slow accent, arriving at the top at a very slow speed. And then coasting down.
I had plenty of time to ponder All This in the summer of 2016, on my ride through the Rockies & Cascadia to the western ocean, here: https://www.cycleblaze.com/journals/rockies/ (https://www.cycleblaze.com/journals/rockies/)
That tour was full of long climbs and long descents: the high passes required three hours' climb or more to cover the 25 - 35 or so kms, depending on stops and pauses for one thing and another, bears 'n' such. Nearing 70 at the time, I had no option but to climb in my lower gears, although I used 1st only four times in the entire tour. But, I made a virtue out of necessity, as one does, and decided that the best way up these hills was slowly and deliberately. (I did met a couple of guys doing it another way, lightly loaded, headin' for the next hard accommodation 160+ kms away, with a damn great mountain in between...)
Now I know that popping over to the Rockies to try all this stuff isn't the easiest/quickest option available to you, but there is another one, a little closer geographically and culturally. Place called Nova Scotia, not so different from Old Scotland, complete with hills, horizontal rain off the North Atlantic in June, that sort of thing. I had a tour planned there for the summer of 2020, at the heart of which was the Cabot Trail around & over Cape Breton, but The Great COVIDian Thing spiked that. Depending on how my spiffy new hips perform, I might have another run at that a couple of summers hence. Interested? Send me a PM if so.
Cheers, John
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The brief peddling pause doesn’t appear to be enough going uphill, it vaults and refuses to move. On a couple of occasions I have had to stop and select a lower gear. At the moment I’m unloaded but can see the problem being increased with a touring load. Any tips other than getting it right in the first place?
Personally I have had only very few issues in the gear changes, on a few rare occasions missing the 8-7 shift and throwing the hub into top gear. All other gear shifts are no worse than with derailleur gears. Maybe as I learned and rode for a long time on a friction, non-indexed drivetrain (1976-1993) I have the slight easing of power and top-dead-centre timing in-grained to my shifting-fu. Rohloff do NOT shift nicely under load, but if the load is light will always shift easy when you have top-dead-centre (pedals at top/bottom). Spinning faster under lighter loads will always work better for shifting; grinding the gears is going to give you greater chances of a hang-up, touring load or not. So my advice, for easier shifting and more sustained climbing effort is always to use a lower cadence if you have problems. Also work at timing the gear shift to occur when your pedal is at the top, before the power stroke.
As for the best gear this is dependent upon terrain and gradient. One thing however that has surprised me about body stance is that I have actually found recently that the accepted norm of hunkering down on the drops/bar-ends and keeping the body lower is of minimal value on steep climbs. By watching my speed and effort on repeated climbs of the same local hill (often alongside my wife) it is quite clear that adopting a lower, aero position is of no consequence for speed on slow climbs. Sitting quite upright enables more effective power from of the leg muscles to the pedals, makes high-cadence spinning easier, and is much more comfortable. All round the result is that I go up the hill easier, with a smile rather than a grimace. Hope these tips help you.
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For example, if you have the external shift box then it needs to be well packed with grease. I assume that you've done an oil change on the Rohloff hub so you know it's been done. If not, then do so.
This is a bit of a myth. I have never had my EX-box packed with grease. Rohloff instructions ONLY specify to grease around the engagement nut which the cable-pulley connects to. I re-read them recently as I had to replace the EX-box when the cable-box fixing screw stripped out the mounting thread.
"The cable box of the external gear mech should be demounted approx. every 500km, cleaned and the cable pulley lightly greased from the hub-facing side."
https://www.rohloff.de/en/service/handbook/speedhub/maintenance/maintanance-tips
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For example, if you have the external shift box then it needs to be well packed with grease. I assume that you've done an oil change on the Rohloff hub so you know it's been done. If not, then do so.
This is a bit of a myth. I have never had my EX-box packed with grease. Rohloff instructions ONLY specify to grease around the engagement nut which the cable-pulley connects to. I re-read them recently as I had to replace the EX-box when the cable-box fixing screw stripped out the mounting thread.
"The cable box of the external gear mech should be demounted approx. every 500km, cleaned and the cable pulley lightly greased from the hub-facing side."
https://www.rohloff.de/en/service/handbook/speedhub/maintenance/maintanance-tips
I believe in more grease and less checking plus, if there's plenty of grease in there, then there's less risk of water ingress. I regularly check if the fixing screw for the ex-box is tight but Rohloff's recommended 500km maintenance interval is inconsistent with the low maintenance Rohloff gearbox.
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I believe in more grease and less checking plus, if there's plenty of grease in there, then there's less risk of water ingress. I regularly check if the fixing screw for the ex-box is tight but Rohloff's recommended 500km maintenance interval is inconsistent with the low maintenance Rohloff gearbox.
Agreed.
I have applied the same low-maintenance goal to greasing inside the EX-box. I count 11 years with opening the EX-box only once as pretty good. The EX-box has been dismounted when changing tyres and *occasionally* the gear-change nut has been regreased. I have had no problems with the cable nor cable pulley over that time.