Thorn Cycles Forum
Community => Member's Gallery => Topic started by: uksteve58 on July 07, 2015, 12:37:32 PM
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After some deliberation I finally bought a Mercury frameset.
I've had a Rohloff hub for the last 3 yrs on a Surly Disc Trucker frame. I've been very happy with the bike but
the one thing that has always grated on me is the need for a chain tensioner...so I've wanted a Rohloff specific
frame for some time.
I have a few qualms about the EBB as I've had one before on a Cannondale 1FG and it suffered badly from "EBB
creak", it was really annoying and I never permanently solved it. But the EBB was a different design than the Thorn
one and I've not seen anything on this forum regarding that, so hopefully it's not an issue.
£900 for a steel frame is "top dollar" imho, so I'm hoping I can discern a difference in ride comfort.
Reading Andy Blance's blurb there's obviously a lot of thought gone into it, and the nice touches with the
stainless cable braze-ons adds value. Internal cable routing would have been nice, but the EBB probably makes that
too difficult if not impossible for Rohloff shift cables.
I've never seen any Thorn in the flesh, so when the Mercury frame turned up I was very impressed with the paint
finish so I can see where some of that money has gone.
In the 3 yrs since I put the Rohloff on the Surly I've only done about 4,000 miles on it as I use other bikes
as well. But in that time the Rohloff has been absolutely trouble free, so this Mercury is definitely going to be a
keeper and I'm hoping I can put a decent amount of miles on it.
Apart from headset and chainset, initially I'm just swapping all other components over from Surly to the Mercury,
but in the coming months I may ditch some of the more commuter oriented stuff in order to drop a little weight as
the Surly weighs in at a rather lardy 36 pounds.I'll add some more pictures when it's built up. I'm feeling rather
guilty in stripping the Surly, how mad is that?.
First time I've tried to post any image here..so bear with me if any problems.
(http://i59.tinypic.com/23uapeo.jpg)
(http://i59.tinypic.com/2n2b8p.jpg)
(http://i62.tinypic.com/2d8inc.jpg)
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Looks like you have a nice bike in the making there, Steve. Other Mercury riders in this forum have been pleased with theirs. Good luck, and we'll look forward to photos and reports.
Didn't realize that the Surly weighs 36 lbs. My Raven-with-Rohloff, with rear rack, alloy fenders & mudflaps, dynahub & headlight, small toolkit & Arkel handlebar mount, weighs in at just over 31 lbs, & with the front rack is an even 32 lbs. I use Mavic XM719 rims, BTW, and have been very pleased with them. No hesitation in recommending them.
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Hello John...well it weighs 36 pounds in commuter trim, the Surly rear rack weighs 3 pounds, the rear wheel with Rohloff and Marathon plus weighs a scary 8.3 pounds. The Son28 and lights probably must weigh a pound extra too. I'm sure with a derailleur setup it would build into a 26-28lb bike no problem.
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Those individual components can add up, for sure. Changing a few things in building the Mercury, such as an alloy rear rack, Marathon Racers or Supremes, and lighter rims (if you choose) will mean losing a lot in the translation, so to speak.
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Yes John, I was looking at a lighter rack ...maybe a Tubus Ti one, I like the look of the Tubus Airy but apparently it doesn't take rear Ortlieb bags and none in stock anywhere...but anyway something much lighter and prettier than the Surly one. My current rims are DT Swiss TK540 disc, not the lightest but I might consider changing them at a later date, but it would be a lot of expense to save 100gr/rim. The Maraton plus on the rear I know is one of the heaviest tyres, but it's puncture protection is great, zero punctures in 6000 miles of commuting. I used to have them F&R but I changed them to Durano plus and had 2 rear punctures in 3 days, so I put the Marathon Plus back on the rear. I'd like to lose it but...what to?.
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Hi Steve,
The frame looks great - enjoy building the bike, and more important riding it!
I have built a Mercury over last winter with the same forks as you have. I tried to keep it light weight as John as suggested using DT Swiss rims and Marathon Supreme's. I have fitted Hope X2 hydraulic disc brakes with drops.
I don't know what disc brakes your Surly has fitted but my advice would be to ensure you have the Mercury disc brake mounts "spot faced" to ensure the brake caliper is square to the disc. I couldn't stop the front brake squealing on my Mercury until I had this done.
Enjoy your Mercury - I love mine - it rides brilliant and handles good.
Pete.
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Thanks Pete, Yes I'm looking forward to getting the Mercury out on the road. As to weight, if I can keep it just below 30 pounds I think that's the best I can achieve as I need dynamo lights, a rear rack and mudguards. But if I get a Tubus Ti one then that will get me halfway there, just deciding which one to get...availability is a problem. My wheels are built with DT TK540 disc rims and DT competition spokes, the rims weigh 545gr, I think there's probably not a lot of weight to lose there, but there is on the Marathon Plus I'm using on the rear, so If anyone has any recommendations on a lighter one with decent puncture proofing I'd be interested to hear them. The dynamo setup I have is a Son28 and a B&M Luxos IQ....the one with the usb port on the bars, it's a decent light and I use the USB to keep my Garmin charged...so they'll stay. The disc setup is XTR's, I have 2 full sets of these and a quantity of new spares so these will be staying as well. I think there's a little weight saving on the frameset..but not much. Anyway...I think I cna just get it
Hope I don't have your squealing brake problem...I'll keep in mind your cure..I should have probably had that done to frame as well at SJS....but I've never needed it before on much cheaper framesets...so hopefully they'll be squeal free....I hate brake squeal !!
Anyone know if there's a 140mm Rohloff disc available?...I think 160mm is probably the smallest there is, but maybe someone knows of one?
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Steve any more word on the build looking forward to seening it finished.
anto.
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Hello Anto, will get there in the end but the build has been delayed a bit due to lots of niggling issues.
Ebb adjustment...the supplied tool is totally unfit for purpose....took a while to realise that an open ended bearing cup tool would do the job, ordered one...it didn't fit, or would do but only as an interference fit and in the process marking my new overpriced bearing cups, so had to get some small needle files so the tool would fit like it should do in the first place!!....job done...but another sizeable tool to have to carry around if on a long trip.
Ebb I knew from Thorn blurb only gives minimal adjustment, so of course I positioned Ebb with axle towards rear to give maximum future adjustment, took some links out of the old chain (1000 miles old KMC X1) but...one link too many and the chain was too slack for the EBB to cope...so I took one more link out....now the chain was just too short, if I joined the chain, and then put the wheel in the wheel wasn't properly seated in the drop-out, and the chain like a bow-string. If the chain-stays were just 2 mm shorter it would have fitted. So this is using a 16T rear and a 42T chainring....this gearing has been fine for me and I don't really want to change it too much. So I had to take up 1 tooth worth ie half a link for chain to be adjustable. Middleburn don't make 43T rings so I ordered a 17T Rohloff. Next problem....not having removed a Rohloff sprocket before I didn't expect any problem, I'd already bought the Rohloff removal tool and just expected to be no more difficult than removing any rear sprocket....WRONG!!!!, I won't bore you with the details but I eventually got it removed after finding a very clever but simple method from Youtube, by holding the spanner on with a large washer...brilliant!!..whoever came up with that is a genius!!...but unfortunately and very annoyingly I managed to put a few small scratches on the Rohloff hub with the chain-whip....so if you do do this and haven't done it before, put some tape on the hub near the sprocket...it would have saved mine.
As other people have done, I will get a long handle welded to a chain whip, this will make it easier in future.
So now I have 17T sprocket on and a new X1 chain ready to put on...but at the back of my mind....Thorn blurb says total teeth must be divisible by 4 ie...44T+16T=60/4=15, which clearly 42+16 or 42+17 are not. Logically I can't see this makes a difference, but if AB has said this I'm sure it's for a reason and who am I?...just another monkey with some spanners!!...so before I reduce the chain to fit 42&17 which on reflection will be too low geared, I've just ordered a 44T chainring and will put the 16T back on to see if the chain will then fit optimally with expected amount of adjustment...can't see that it will, but I have to try.
Incidentally I'm using Middleburn bearing cups with Middleburn RS8 crankset and Rohloff X-Type Spider with Mono chainring, anyone else have experience of these on a Mercury?
So apart from some further probs with fitting mudguards on the brake bridge...clearance issues with 28mm tyres!!, that's as far as I've got, bit bored with it aswell to be honest, and fed up waiting for companies to send items. some are brilliant...some are <very poor>.
[Minor language edit by Dan, who surely understands and sympathizes with the frustration]
Ok Dan...fair enough....but ....Political Correctness....I despise it....with a passion, it invades and permeates our lives at every level.
Other bits I got for build...Tubus Logo Titan rack, and hopefully a seatpost that will go some way to cure my Ar*e ache :)
A Specialized CG-R, formerly known as the COBL-GOBLR...but Specialized renamed it...it's name must have upset someone, reviews on it say it's the bollo... very good, it's now std fitment on S-Works Roubaix.
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Sounds like a lot of hassle Steve just to fit a chain :-\
still bet it's worth it in the end ,i've only ever seen a rohloff bike in the flesh lovely job (raven tour) but i'm as shimano man meself i have the new 11 speed 105 on my terry dolan letape looks and works to perfection , but yeah i suppose if your going to be touring then rohloff is the way to go.
anyway best of luck with the build going to be a cracker. ;)
anto
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Succinctly put Anto...yes way too much hassle to fit a chain. Root of the problem is the EBB....it's the price to pay for the "simplicity" of no chain tensioner.
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Theres a ebb on the dolan tandem we ride hope to god it doesn't give trouble never tried fixing one before :o.
Steve have u tried that new brooks saddle yet, it looks exactly the same shape as my fizik alanti saddle .
anto
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I have Anto..but not much, certainly not enough to tell whether it's any good or not for me. I'll use it all the time once the Mercury is on the road. I'm hoping it's more comfortable than the B17, I used that for 2 yrs and 5 or 6000 miles but it never got any more comfortable for me. So the C17 together with this new post had better do the job, at the moment, I'm limited to about 30-40 miles tops. I don't actually get sore in my crutch...more a numbness/bruising feeling. It's a real nuisance as I want to do some long distance rides but hat's simply been out of the question. I'm recently early retired...so have lots of plans for future...just need the rear-end for it. I also read that Rivet Pearl is very comfortable and Selle Anatomica, which will be my next try if the C17 doesn't fit the bill. although the Anatomica doesn't seem to be available here in UK.
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Steve the fizik alanti is the best saddle i ever used.it was very expensive my son bough it for me in belgium he was racking over there,anyway its the carbon one with ti rails super comfy mind u saying that i found the b17 great but it went when i sold the sherpa. :(
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Yes, now you mention it I think I heard that was quite comfortable..that's the Aliante..right?
There's many versions of Aliante..you know which one you have?
If this C17 doesn't work out..I'll put that on my list to try...cheers Anto.
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Ah no idea Steve what model it is but i know it was top of the range at the time.my son has one on his fixie its the one with steel rails but looks exactly the same as mine.
give that brooks a go first tho it looks a great saddle.
anto.
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Looks like your going end up with a really nice build in the end, I found the same problem with the edd tool! However I used the two 1p coin trick works a great, I had to adjust the chain this morning, I thought I might be able to do it without resorting to doing that but I was wrong, didn't take much longer to do the jod and loosening the ebb this way let's me keep enough tension on the ebb, however I would like to replace the suger tongs with a descent tool,
Saddles wise I started with a rido R2, found that was great for up to a couple of hours, so changed it to a b17 imperial .. Brilliant, saddles just seem to be a pain in the butt to get right, I had a c17 for a trial but found it was like riding a pogo stick!
Mark
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Hello Mark, Yes, I tried the big washers in BB shell....didn't work...EBB absolutely wouldn't budge, all that happened is as expected the tool slips out and I skinned my knuckles. Eventually it would scratch paint on BB shell...so I put it in the bin where it belongs. Although I'd paid for "frame prep" which I assumed included lubing the EBB, I had to take it out just to check to be on safe side. It was lubed ok....but maybe just the inside of shell a little rough in places near frame tube holes. So I polished these very minor issues out with some very fine wet and dry and it did make a slight improvement. But as I said using an open ended bearing cup tool works great for me. Yes, I agree....saddles really are a PITA in every sense. If my new post/saddle combo doesn't do the job, I'll seriously have to consider getting a high-tech bike fitting done in case there's an issue with the way I'm positioned on the bike. Glad your Imperial is working for you, I've not owned a cut-out type saddle myself, that's why the Rivet Pearl might be my next try if C17 doesn't do it.
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After suffering with a Spec saddle on my road bike for 6 years I purchased a Fizik Kurve Bull saddle. I've just transferred this to my new Mercury and with the steel frame no more sore backside. The only downside was I had to purchase a Fizik Cyrano Carbon seatpost as the Fizik saddle has oval rails and wouldn't fit on the Spec seatpost. Even though this was an unwelcome extra cost it was well worth it.
Id.
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yes there saddles are hard to beat well made seem to last forever ,the brooks are great but you must look after them keep them dry and sealed if not totally useless bin job. :o ;D
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Further problem and therefore further delay....please someone confirm I'm not expecting too much?
My new chainset has lateral movement at the teeth of about 2-3mm making my correct chainline a bit of a mockery.
Its a new Middleburn RS8 Mono with Rohloff X-type spider and mono chainring, running in new Middleburn BB cups.
I took the chainring off and placed on a flat surface..a pane of glass, it seems fine.
I can't take the spider off to try and check that as I don't have the required tool.
I think the most likely explanation is the inside face of the drive crank isn't at 90 degrees to the crankshaft.
Any thoughts, explanation, similar experience.
I've attached a .mov file to demonstate, it's low quality but you can see what I'm seeing...I hope.
Just added 2nd .Mov, this shows it better.
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That's very clear, Steve. Is your EBB firmly fixed by its two 15mm fixing bolts? See my post a moment ago in the "Rohloff combo" thread -- I had a bit of play in my crank arms, hence also in the chain ring at the teeth. The play turned out to be due to one of the EBB fixing bolts being loose (on the non-drive side), so that the EBB was a little loose in its shell, and the spindle of the BB thus showed a little play as well.
Hope that's helpful -- if that's the issue, it's quickly and easily fixed.
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Thanks John for that suggestion. But unfortunately that isn't the cause. The EBB is very firm in the shell, in a previous post in this topic I say that I can't budge the EBB to adjust it with the supplied tool. Because I'm still waiting for a 44T ring to turn up and then to fit chain I've not got the shell bolts torqued up....(4 of them on Mercury), but it's still firm, if I take hold of the cranks there's no discernible play. I just think it's as I suggested some bad machining on the left crank. I also thought afterwards that if the spider wasn't true then I would have been able to feel that when I place the ring against it.....but I can't.
Anyway....I just read your message about your drive train. I like surly stainless rings too, I've used them extensively on single speeds with no wear at all that I can see. originally I was going to use one on this build but decided I'd go up market a bit.....a mistake I thinking now. I'm used to ultegra and dura-ace quality.....the same money would have bought a DA 9000 chainset, can you imagine having this problem with Shimano.....not in my experience. Even the pedal threads were very tight, I had to work the pedals in gradually with a lot of copper ease, in and out a little bit till they were eventually home. I noticed some small bits of swarf, again you wouldn't get that with Shimano. I'm definitely underwhelmed. I've never used Middleburn stuff before, but always assumed they were high quality.
I've emailed the supplier and manufacturer and I'm hoping I get a prompt, favourable and useful response........sorry I drifted off into LaLa land then.
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I've just watched your videos. Can you try another spider? It would be good to narrow it down to see if the crankset was the problem or something related to the BB or EBB?
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Its a new Middleburn RS8 Mono with Rohloff X-type spider and mono chainring, running in new Middleburn BB cups.
I was just about to buy that very set up.....I will be interested to see how this all pans out..... :o
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Geocycle...Hello, The spider is Middleburn's own specific design AFAIK, so I only have this one..no other, and as I said I don't have the tool to remove it. But yes, I had same thought regarding BB Shell/EBB, so I put a Shimano UN BB and my old Thorn Chainset.
There's still a little lateral movement there, but maybe 1/3 to 1/2 of what there was with the Middleburn, which was a bit of a disappointment to be honest, but as I said it's an old Chainring...but not that old (3000 miles) and I wouldn't really expect to see lateral movement whatever the age assuming normal use. But I go back to my initial question ..am I asking or expecting too much?....the Middleburn clearly isn't acceptable, but on the Thorn Chainset?.....is 1-2mm acceptable?..after all it's a Bicycle, not a jet fighter. But it leaves me thinking that either the BB Shell or EBB might be playing a part in this.
I also just checked the Ultegra chainset in my old Surly Disc Trucker....virtually no discernible lateral movement, and that's on a 50T ring (meaning the larger the ring the more "amplified" any BB/Shell error would be viewed at the chainring teeth)
So I'm probably answering my own question here, it's clear that what I'm seeing on both chainsets isn't normal but is it acceptable?
Think I need to ask SJS.
Supplier of Middleburn has just emailed me to say I should send it back to Middleburn, and the 44T chainring I ordered 5 days ago and that I've been waiting in for all day is out of stock...a computer error apparently....the old ones are the best!!.
Mov file of Thorn chainset...upside down but it means I can stabilize my tablet in the frame dropouts with lens on RHS for clear view, and I didn't know how to turn the mov through 180, any ipad ios mov users?
Tiberius...Middleburn RS8 Mono Rohloff setup..brilliant bit of kit!!!...funnily enough I know someone who has one for sale.
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The movement in the Thorn didn't look that bad given its an old ring but best to check with SJS for a view. I'm not an engineer but the middleburn would be unacceptable in my opinion -I'd certainly be asking questions of the supplier and manufacturer. The small movement in the thorn might be something like small discrepancies in the tension of the EBB bolts? Let us know how you get on.
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The EBB is torqued to 4NM in correct sequence.
later I'll take the Ultegra chainset and cups from Surly and put them on the Mercury, if I see any more movement than I can on the Surly then the frame/EBB is at fault.
I've returned the Middleburn, and emailed AB for this thoughts.
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Hi Steve!
Following this with great interest, and appreciate the steps you've taken with video to illustrate the problem. If a photo is worth a thousand words, then video must be worth 5x that because we can see what you're seeing. Well done.
Thinking logically -- so long as the eccentric is tight in its mounts so the lot cannot wobble -- the BB spindle should spin concentrically unless it is bent. If the worst happened and the BB threads were tapped at a cant in the eccentric, then the BB spindle should still spin, but at a consistent angle to the frame, rather than wobble.
If you have a means to check left-arm runout, that would be a second check on BB alignment and runout. Lacking a dial gauge, a quick and easy way it to place a Sharpie permanent marker next to the BB shell or frame tube and used it to measure where/if there is a high and low spot as the crank spins. This can also be done on the right side, marking both spider and 'ring independently. The marks remove readily by wiping with a rag soaked in isopropyl alcohol.
Over the years, I've seen several things ause a wobble such as you have:
• A bent crankarm chainring mounting spider (shipping damage)
• A bent chainring (crash damage)
• Crankarm spider mounting seats uneven due to a thin spacer left between 'ring and spider (assembly error)
• Broached square-taper mount off-axis (manufacturing/QC error)
Given you've checked basic alignment, I think the last might be the problem. Given the overly-tight pedal threads, it sounds to me as if this Middleburn crank might have been faulty.
As for the Thorn cranks' ring-wobble, so long as the BB bearings don't have excess play, the lot should spin evenly. For reference, all my cranks spin "round" well within 1mm total runout.
In no way implying you've missed something, but in an effort to help: Have you checked to make sure the chainring is evenly seated on each spider land, and the peg bolts and sleeve nuts are torqued evenly?
Looking forward to hearing further developments, and hoping very much for a quick resolution so you can fully enjoy your new bike. It is terribly frustrating when things go awry, especially in a baffling fashion.
All the best,
Dan.
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Tiberius...Middleburn RS8 Mono Rohloff setup..brilliant bit of kit!!!...funnily enough I know someone who has one for sale.
Hmmmmmm.....Many thanks for the 'heads up' Steve......I will think about it....... :P
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Hello Dan, thanks for your interest and input.
You know what Dan, you've made me feel a bit silly, of course you're absolutely right, an off centre BB shell or EBB would not give me the error that I'm seeing, as you say it would be permanently canted.Which is good news, because the last thing I want is to have to strip this down and return the frame.
Sorry if I'm being a bit dim....but I can't visualise what you mean with the marker pen method of checking run-out in the cranks, and yes you're right I don't have access to a dial guage. Maybe you could explain further for me?
Just so that we're at the same page...I've returned the Middleburn Chainset (same format as Shimano hollowtech with crankshaft on LHS crank and external BB cups)
So for the moment we're only talking about the old Thorn Chainset..ok?
At no time with either chainset have I felt any binding, the cranks are spinning perfectly freely....no perceived problems there.
As per your idea, I've just taken the Thorn ring off, cleaned everything up and re-assembled, but the rear part of bolts are the slotted kind and I don't have a chainring bolt wrench (just ordered one) so have been unable to torque to correct settings, so they are just "nipped" up as best I could, with that caveat...I see no difference in the lateral movement shown in my mov file.
About excess play in the BB bearings.....the Middleburn cups were new, the Shimano UN55 is a used one, but I have a new one somewhere, I can swap that aswell tomorrow just to rule out that as a possibility.
As I said earlier I'll take the Ultegra off and put in the Mercury to see how that looks.
And also the Thorn in the Surly.
Thanks again Dan
Regards
Steve
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we are going to have to start a video help line so much easier to figure out the problems . ::)
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Sorry if I'm being a bit dim....but I can't visualise what you mean with the marker pen method of checking run-out in the cranks, and yes you're right I don't have access to a dial guage. Maybe you could explain further for me?
Hi Steve! You're not being dim, I just glossed over the specifics, making for a confusing explanation; my apologies.
What I meant was, one could try holding a Sharpie permanent marker against the back side of the chainring, then rotate the crank so the low and high spots of the chainring would be defined by the marker pen (then wiped away again using isopropyl alcohol on a rag). That way, you could more readily see where the problem is and where (particularly from center to edge). I've done this sometimes when truing wheels and found it to be nearly as accurate as a dial indicator. Just brace the pen barrel against something solid, like the downtube and lightly touch it to the chainring face as you rotate the crankarm.
Sometimes, small errors aggregate and accumulate. What I'm working toward is the idea of rotating the chainring incrementally on the crank spider to see if the wobble becomes less or possibly worsens -- just march it from one set of pegs to the next, being careful to do it systematically so you can keep track. It is a lot easier to see errors in a chainring edge than on a spider, and I've used this method to successfully compensate for some manufafuring errors in the past.
<nods> I would have returned the Middleburn as well, as it sounded like a faulty piece in several ways based on your description. Not to impugn Middleburn; it is possible for any company to have a defective part slip through the QC chain. It happens.
All encouragement and support your way!
Best,
Dan.
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Thanks Dan for clearing that up. But I couldn't find a suitable marker and to be honest I just put the Thorn crankset on to help verify if there was a problem with the frame or not, and as you rightly pointed out a BB Shell/EBB error wouldn't present like the error I'm seeing, so really the point is moot.
So although there maybe a slight problem with the Thorn Chainset which your method could help identify and as you say some correction maybe applied to it, because it won't ever be used on the Mercury, for the moment I'll not investigate that any further. But if I notice it again on whatever frame it ends up on in the future, I'll bear the marker pen method in mind because it makes sense.
I've put the Ultegra chainset on the Mercury and it's almost as good as on the Surly so that's eased my mind!!
and also Middleburn have now accepted that the RH crank had a manufacturing error.
"The error was only in the Right Hand Crank, which I have replaced.
The face of the Axel and crank bolt were not Parallel."
They've also agreed to exchange my 42T for a 44T which hopefully means I can get a working F&R tooth setup that works with this EBB.
Regards
Steve
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Yay! Progress, Steve, and moving forward. Hoping it won't be too long before you're on the road, riding your new bike!
Thanks for the updates.
All the best,
Dan.
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Well done Steve and Dan -- good sleuthing!
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I Received the Middleburn Chainset back from the manufacturer, now all ok, (apart from pedal threads...still the same!!)
I did another video..just to demonstrate ring running true..
Thoughts about Middleburn RS8 Rohloff Mono..for Mercury
This particular chainset was a bad choice for my Mercury build because of my poor research.
I initially bought these Thorn Cranks and chainring.
http://www.sjscycles.co.uk/thorn-130-pcd-ex-bearing-single-crankset-with-integral-bottom-bracket-prod24749/
http://www.sjscycles.co.uk/thorn-130mm-bcd-5-arm-3-32-inch-single-chainring-black-prod24641/?
But I sent them back as I didn't like the look of them, I thought they were quite roughly finished at the back of
each crank, and they seemed remarkably similiar to much cheaper options elsewhere.
This would prove a costly mistake on my part.
Once I'd decided to go with another set of cranks, I had to work out which cranks and BB would give me the required
54mm chainline. I'd read conflicting info about that, so being a bit stuck, I was drawn to the Middleburn RS8 setup as it had a Rohloff specific Spider option which meant I could safely buy these and expect to achieve the correct chainline. No problem with that. Where it all goes wrong is the options for chainring teeth number.....
It states quite categorically in the Mercury blurb that chainwheel teeth plus sprocket teeth must be divisible by
four and I'd read that and taken it in, ie 44+16=60 or 40+16=56.
So with that in mind, Middleburn only make even number teeth rings for this setup. So therefore to follow the rule,
the Rohloff has to be an even number aswell...so Rohloff has to be a 16T and the Middleburn ring has to be 32, 36, 40 or 44 which is quite limiting.
My exisiting setup was 42/16 and I was happy with that gearing but that setup doesn't follow the divisible by 4
rule so I tried to get a 44T, but none in stock anywhere in the hardcoat finish I wanted.
At this stage I've disregarded the rule and gone with a 42T.
Before I realised there was a problem with the Cranks and returned them, I'd fitted the 42T and saw immediately
that I couldn't adjust the chain correctly, it was either so loose there was insufficient adjustment in the EBB to
take up the slack or if I removed one link it was then so tight I couldn't put in the KMC "missing link"
I couldn't see logically why the divide by 4 rule was important so I just ordered a 17T sprocket thinking that
would allow me to get the correct chain adjustment. Probably because when altering the chain length by 1
link...means 2 teeth worth of chain, so by changing just by 1 tooth in sprockets up or down I thought it would
work...wrong!!
I've just put on the new cranks with new 44T, I tried it with the 17T rear...no good, put my old 16T back on...and of course now is all ok.....moral is...RTFM !!!!, the annoying part is I did RTFM, but ignored it..sort of, If I could have got the 44T straight off, I wouldn't have had any issues.
So if you are doing a Mercury build, and you want no hassle, then my advice for what it's worth, just stick with
the Thorn cranks and chainring...a whole lot easier and much less stressful. It would have saved me £200 minimum
None of this should be any suprise, virtually all pictures I've seen of Mercury's are with Thorn Cranks & Rings
So my 44/16 is now probably too high geared for me, I'll try it out...soon hopefully, but if it's too high I'll get
that Thorn 43T that I sent back... to go with the 17T....But then again if I keep 44T I have option to fit a Chainglider...I always fancied trying one of those, but always had a chain tensioner so couldn't.
As a matter of interest I just made a list of Thorn Rings and Rohloff sprockets that meet the divisible by 4 rule.
(not suggesting these are correct or advisable to use....just meet the rule)
13/43 13/47 13/51 15/41 15/45 15/49 16/40 16/44 16/48 16/52 17/39 17/43 17/47 17/51 19/41 19/45 19/49
Chainglider front sections that pair with the Rohloff rear S15 section (15-17T) are 38T, 42T, 44T
So the only working combination for Mercury and Chainglider is 16/44....unless someone knows different?
Ok..I know chainglider doesn't really go with Mercurys sporty image....but I'd like to try one.
I'll shut-up now!!!, strangely enough I'm sick of Cranks and chainrings and the fitting of!!, and sure you are too!!
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Steve,
I has been remarkably kind of you to share your experiences with us all, and will surely be a great help to others going forward.
So sorry you've been through the mill on this, but hopefully the dark days are past and you can save someone else the grief as well. Good karma if nothing else!
Very much hoping the rest of the build goes smoothly so you can ride the bike soonest/
All the best,
Dan.
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Thanks Dan & John, yes hopefully my experience will help someone else avoid the same mistakes.
Should have the bike on the road tomorrow, not fully finished as I'm waiting for some new lighting/charging/mudguards to arrive, but will do them another time. So for the moment I've just secured old wiring in no great fashion and the steerer I've left un-cut till I've decided on a good setup fpr me.
About the wiring Dan..."Danneaux's Nomad" has inspired to make a better job of my own wiring and I'd like to use the Dean's R/C Connectors you use, but the links to them are dead in your DN page. Can you please give me a link to the ones you recommend...thanks. i'm planning to hide the wiring to rear dynamo light under the mudguard rather than routing around the rear rack and also your mod to put "tails" on the Son28
thanks
Steve
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I'd like to use the Dean's R/C Connectors you use, but the links to them are dead in your DN page. Can you please give me a link to the ones you recommend...thanks.
Steve,
I just checked and am shocked to find those links no longer list the connectors. I'll check further and advise as soon as I learn more. I really hope they have not discontinued these connectors, as nothing I've found/tried has worked so well.
Back soonest with more,
Dan.
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...and...back again...
I just checked here: http://www.wsdeans.com/products/plugs/micro_plug.html ...and it appears Deans is in the process of revising the connectors. :o :P :-\ I have mixed feelings about this. Yes, the ones I use(d) were a little challenging to solder (easy if you first tinned the leads and used a heat-sink), but worked wonderfully once attached and remained secure, never corroded, and remained tight against dirt and moisture yet released easily when desired.
A quick check shows them still available at a number of sources:
R/C Planet has them for USD$1.49/pr: http://www.rcplanet.com/Deans_Micro_2Npb_Blk_Non_Polar_p/wsd1225.htm
Amain, USD$1.59/pr: http://www.amain.com/rc-cars/deans-micro-plug-2nb-black-non-polarized-connector-reversible-wsd1225/p3593
HeliProz: http://www.heliproz.com/rc-helicopters/deans-micro-plug-2nb-black-non-polarized-connector-reversible-wsd1225/p3593
NZ Hobbies, USD$1.49/pr: http://www.nzhobbies.com/index.php/batteries-chargers/chargers-power-supply/latest-w-s-deans-micro-plug-2nb-wsd1225.html
TowerHobbies, USD$1.49/pr: http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXCGP1
HobbiesRUs, USD$1.55/pr: http://www.hobbiesr.com/wsd/wsd-258/wsd1225.htm
Stormer Hobbies, USD$1.50/pr: http://www.stormerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/seekpart.pl?src=ns&pn=WSD1225
UK eBay, £2.82/pr (from Georgia, USA): http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Brand-New-W-S-Deans-Micro-Plug-2NB-WSD1225-/261603537545
HobbyLinc, USD$1.09/pr: http://www.hobbylinc.com/htm/wsd/wsd1225.htm
Hope this helps.
Best,
Dan.
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Thanks for that Dan...yes I've found many dead links, I just assumed it was part of teething troubles and would be rectified as and when.....
I found one of the Dean's mini plug place in UK, but only one is stock, and probably the different design you mentioned, I'm sure it will be fine.
Had my first ride last night on the Mercury, nothing fell off...which is always good :)
My main hope for this bike is comfort, mainly saddle comfort, as it's really been limiting what I can do on the bike.
As I said earlier my longest rides are 40 miles tops then it's just way too painful to continue, and wrecks the day after too.
So I went on a ride I did 6 weeks ago, just 30 miles. Last time I got to about 20 miles and thought I had a puncture, so I stopped to have a look....at that point I was in agony. So that was my yardstick last night to stop at the same place and see how I felt. Good news is that although I certainly wasn't comfortable, it was very much better than before, a 5 minute rest and I was back on the bike and felt quite comfortable again. In fact within a mile or two of setting off I sensed that the new seatpost was doing something to reduce the effect of poor road surfaces.
Lots has changed on the bike for me, new frameset and riding position, seat post and saddle, swapped out the 28mm marathon plus on the rear for a 25mm durano plus to match the front. It certainly felt a bit nippier, which is certainly down to getting rid of the marathon plus, they're great for puncture proofing but make a slug out of any bike. The riding position felt too upright...thinking maybe I should have got the Long version of the frame...too late now!!.
So over the next few weeks I'll experiment with some different stems and saddle positions.
Back to comfort side of things...by the time I got home every bump in the road was toture, earlier in the ride I decided that it's my "sit-bones" that are feeling battered and bruised. My position on the saddle felt good, not too far forward so I have a decent amount of support, and the edges of the saddle weren't digging in to my sit-bones...so I feel the saddle is the right width. I think this just leaves the saddle profile, which is curved, I'll alternate the C17 and B17 which has a much flatter profile to see if I can detect any benefits from either. I also thought that with the poor road surfaces maybe I should get away from skinnier tyres that I've been using. It's a long time since I used anything bigger than 28mm...I think I'll get some 35mm to soften things out a little...of course they'll be slower, but that's irrelevant compared to my quest for comfort. Searching on-line I found glowing reviews of Rivendell Jack Brown Tyre - 700x33c....but none here in uk....meanwhile just to experiment I found some very cheap Vittoria Randonneur II. I also ordered the Rido R2 saddle that "markbUk" recommended.
The problem I think is one of a skinny behind, most women in my life at some stage have said I don't have an Ar*e.....the answer to my problem might simply be....to eat more pies.... :)
I'll add some pics of finished bike...when it's finished...and pretty.
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Hi Steve!
So sorry to hear your bottom-comfort remains a limiting factor -- how miserable!
I'm not sure if you have enough space for one, but I have discovered -- at this late date! -- the utter joy to be found in Thudbuster suspension seatposts. I have the LT (Long Travel) version on my Nomad and the ST (Short Travel) version on my two rando bikes. It is extremely unlikely you would have the needed 144mm between the saddle rails and top of seat clamp needed for the LT, but it is possible you might have the 98mm required for the ST to clear.
The LT on the Nomad was fine for my 78kg weight with the medium (installed) elastomers included. The ST versions on the rando-touring bikes required I swap the Medium pucks for the also-included Soft versions. With my 45° back angle, I simply wasn't loading the saddle hard enough to activate the suspension. With the softer pucks in place, all works as expected. The ST's don't have nearly the travel of the LT (think: Rough logging roads and tree roots when traveling cross-country) and aren't as luxurious in their isolation, but they sure do a great job of "taking the edge off" things like concrete expansion joints and rough chip-seal pavement. I'm using Brooks B.17 saddles with all of mine and this is an ideal combination for me. I still have the comfort of my B.17, but without the vibration being transmitted. Best of all, I no longer have the "whiplash" neck pain and headaches I found came from the bike being too-harsh at the rear. My bottom stays fresher much longer on 300-400km day rides and doesn't bother the next day, a welcome change. With my smooth, high-cadence (hummingbird) riding style, I don't get unwanted bounce or bobbing while pedaling. All's good.
Some related Forum links here:
http://thorncyclesforum.co.uk/index.php?topic=7089.0
Pictures and description here. You can find additional posts in my "Danneaux's Nomad" gallery both before and after this one: http://thorncyclesforum.co.uk/index.php?topic=4523.msg49113#msg49113
Perhaps it would help to keep a TBST in mind in case other methods fail to provide the comfort/range you seek.
Best,
Dan.
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Hello Dan, Yes I'd seen that you were happy with the Thudbuster. I've seen it before but to be honest I always considered it too pig ugly and heavy to be an option for me. But that was when I was motorcycling more than cycling, and now I have different priorities.
The new Specialized seat post I have, has minimal movement, it just moves on an elastomer, there's no actual pivot. But together with the quite springy C17 I'd hoped for a better result than I got last night with that combo...it's early days yet of course.
But as I'm keen to get a solution to my problem, and if it's good for you in your extreme terrain then I'd be a fool not to try it.
I haven't set the saddle height too accurately yet, but it's roughly 140mm, so I'll get the ST version.
If the TB, Rido R2 saddle and 35mm tyres don't do the job, then I'll be looking for wheels for my armchair or a recumbent.
Thanks again Dan
Regards
Steve
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...the Thudbuster. I've seen it before but to be honest I always considered it too pig ugly and heavy to be an option for me.
Honestly...me too. I just could not get past the looks, and to put it (the STs, the Nomad is "different" enough the LT didn't show that much) on a couple of classic touring frames with horizontal top tubes seemed such a travesty I didn't give 'em a second look.
Then, I found my neck/headaches were killing me on the Nomad and I needed something, 'cos I sure wasn't going to sell the bike. I had though it was a too-stiff fork, but when the problem subsided on posting (standing slightly out of the saddle), I figured, "Why not?" and got one. The LT was required for the Nomad, but the ST does the job for me on paved roads with the more limited saddle-to-clamp clearance on the rando-touring bikes. If they would fit, I'd have gone for LTs all-'round, but the ST surely helped once I selected the correct elastomer for my needs. Mind you, this is with 32mm and 34mm tires on the rear of these bikes, so I think the difference might be more noticeable with narrower tires. Back in the day when really good touring tires were absent my upper-left corner of the US, I did loaded touring on gravel using Specialized training tires -- 23mm-25mm pumped up to 125psi/8.6bar -- like riding iron bands but as needs must, I did.
Thudbusters weren't available back then but were later, and it was appearance that put me off. Far worse with the covers on, thought, but now I figure I don't see them while riding and the difference is so worth it to me. Wish I'd been more willing ages ago, as the reduced shock at the rear tips me forward less on my poor hands, and they feel better as well -- an unexpected bonus. Just wish they looked prettier.
There's two direct vendors if you decide to get one stateside. The inventor has a site that contracts with Cane Creek for drop-shipping and includes a free cover in the price: http://www.thudbuster.com/ The other site is Cane Creek, the licensee: http://www.canecreek.com/products/seatposts Of course, Amazon and any number of other vendors carry them in throughout the US and Canada, in Europe, and in the UK. Given exchange rates, even with shipping a US source might be less expensive.
The one thing that is a bit "off" according to my usage is the actual travel. After repeated inquiries, the answer I got is that listed travel amounts to total possible travel. In practice, I found it much less (due to the elastomer stack or puck), but it didn't matter, despite my pre-purchase concerns. Their success does depend on getting the right elastomer mix for your weight as well as your body position on the bike. In my experience, gearing elastomer for positioning (*effective* weight on the saddle) is as important as choosing it for weight. I also found I needed to place my saddles 5-8mm further forward than on a rigid post to provide some preload to compensate for rearward "sag" when weighted. I usually require a long-layback seatpost, but both kinds of Thudbusters worked well for me, as they decline rearward-and-downward while keeping saddle-to-BB distance effectively constant.
Give it a bit of time and don't hesitate to experiment, Steve. The answer is out there, and a Thudbuster might provide an option if other, more ready solutions fail. Do let us know how you get on.
All the best,
Dan.
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I had a look at a couple of U.S sites and they want 40$ carriage, then there's our 20% VAT...on the item price plus shipping, but in my experience a stealthy extra % or two creeps in there as well, also there's Paypal's or my bank's 2.5-3.2% forex charge.
If the U.S carrier is USPS then as they obviously don't have a presence here in U.K so they hand over to our "Parcelforce" and they sometimes add a £10 handling fee.
Anyway, I found it on sale here for £108, actually I found it for £98 too, but they quote 7-10 days delivery...patience isn't my best suit.
So as I'll be getting the Thudbuster, Saddle and tyres, next week, I'll be a little systematic and try to do one at a time to see if I can tell which of them gives any improvement.
Yes I can see they would look rather odd on classic road frame, but as you say "as needs must"
You mention hand pain....I had that too, or rather numbness, severe enough that at the end of my 10 mile commute it was difficult to brake or change gear. I stupidly just put up with it for a few years. Then one day whilst riding, I realised that my hand was bent upwards creating quite an un-natural angle at my wrist....just because of the way I'd positioned the flat part of the Ergon grips, as soon as I angled this part upwards it straightened out my hand and arm...and eureka the numbness disappeared. I felt a right idiot...so as you say the "the answer is out there", I just need to be patient and experiment....and get a bigger parts bin :)
Thanks Dan
Steve.
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chainreaction cycles sell those seatposts. ;)
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Cheers Anto but I already ordered from Wiggle they were £3 cheaper than Chain Reaction.
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Steve, a thought on tires: I'm now using Schwalbe Marathon Racers on my day-ride derailleur bike, 700 x 35 (actual width, 32 mm inflated) & I've been very pleased with them -- very good ride. I'd opt for the 38 mm width if I were buying again -- I was looking for 35 mm tires, and foolishly thought tires labelled as such would be that width...
The Racers are available with a wire or a folding bead, the former slightly heavier (435 gms instead of 375) and half the price.
A few people linked up with my LBS here in Ottawa ride Compass Bicycle tires (from Seattle, Washington), which range up to 700 x 38, and rave about them. Not sure if there's a UK supplier for their products, however.
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Steve ... You move quick! I read page 3 and was just going to post that I had an ST sitting in the garage and was wondering if you were local enough to give it a try, on tyres I'm using marathon supreme in 32mm running 58 psi f and 75 on the rear, worked out using the 15% drop method
Mark
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Cheers Anto but I already ordered from Wiggle they were £3 cheaper than Chain Reaction.
ah yes but chainreaction doesnt charge postage ;)
looks a great bit of kit tho hope it works out for you.took me a while to warm to that design but if it does the job happy days.
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Thanks John..yes I would have assumed the same!!, 35=32???.....I measured my clearance it's in the 35-40 region, so unsure what will be the maximum size I can fit, that's why I just bought these cheapies, £19 delivered ...the pair!!, so if it turns out there's a better option then I won't have wasted too much money....how can a pair of pedal cycle tyres be £100??
Compass tyres...yes I discovered those yesterday and saw the good reviews, I found a dealer here but doesn't seem to have any stock of larger width 700c, but I'll keep looking.
http://www.velovitality.co.uk/collections/700c-tyres
I've always opted for wire beaded tyres, and rightly or wrongly have always assumed they must have better puncture proofing....what are you using and hows the puncture resistance been?
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yes you're right Anto, I do actually use CR whenever I can as they are very prompt with deliveries, usually next day which is important to me as I have zero patience, but I was ordering some other stuff too that CR didn't have.
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Steve hows the build going are ya nearly finished yet :o
i cant't wait to see the bike finished loads of photos please.
god bless the bike builder.
anto.
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Yep 32mm supremes are 700c,
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I have 28mm (29mm measured!) on one bike and 32mm on my Club Tour Grand Bois tyres similar to the Compass tyres. Very comfortable, supple and fast. However not cheap and I wouldn't use them commuting. They have transformed my riding as they are just so comfortable.
Steve
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Steve have you a link to where you bought your compass tyres please..
cheers
anto.
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Anto, yes it's finished enough to ride, but still waiting on a few extra bits to arrive (mudguards, new lights and charging setup, and trying to get saddle seatpost combo as comfortable as possible. Will add some pics when finished. Hope your back feels better, shame to miss that ride...I went to Donegal 25yrs ago...amazing beaches and completely empty. My ex-wife's father came from a village in Donegal called "Gweedore" near Mt Errigal. Also remember the lovely smell of the turves of peat they burned on the fires.
John, I ordered some 40mm Marathon Supremes, the cheapo 32mm, aren't any bigger than my current 28's. The Thorn blurb says they'll take 40's ok...but maybe a squeeze. Maybe even tighter with the new mudguards...but they're 45mm so hopefully will fit ok. This Mercury is going to end up a fat one I think.
Dan, good news on the Thudbuster, it definitely is better. I did 40 miles last night and I was fine upto 25, then it started to hurt and at the end still quite painful. But went away fairly quickly whereas before it would last well into the next day. I changed the elastomer to No7, correct for my weight, but I'll change back to No5 to see if there's a difference. Also got the Deans plugs...good pointer from you Dan, they're really small, just what I was looking for.
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Yay, Steve! So glad to hear forward progress, and relieved the Thudbuster is helping, at least. IT does reduce the pounding, but does nothing for the saddle interface, so perhaps you may need to fine-tune that a bit to get ultimate relief.
As for the Deans connectors, the "easy" way to solder is to couple the connectors and use a heat sink on the far pins, then briefly tin the pins (they're gold plated, so conduct heat well; just a flash of heat will do it). Then, pre-tin the ends of the wires and slide the heat-shrink tubing on the wires well back of the heat-affected zone. The actual connection then takes just a brief touch with the tip of your soldering iron to do.
Good luck on all going forward.
Best,
Dan.
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Bit of an update for anyone interested in my ar*e saga.......
!. Brooks C!7 is definitely a no go!!...it will never be back on the bike. I never felt the "pogo stick" sensation that Mark mentioned...in fact I don't feel any movement from any of the posts I've tried.
2. The Rido2 saddle was used for a few rides, definitely less painful than thr C17 but far from comfortable...so may come back to that.
3. Decided to give my old B17 another chance.....it's like a different saddle with the Thudbuster....by far the most comfortable of the saddle's I've got. Much flatter profile than the C17.
4. 40mm Marathon Supremes....Eureka!!!.....Thudbuster, B17 and these tyres is a totally different league now, did 50m yesterday and 30 today....with only 8 hour gap...I've never been able to do that before. still painful at end of 50m but, no where near the level of pain that I was previously experiencing. Started with 50/60 psi but now finding 60/70psi better. 40mm actually
measures 35mm width. I was expecting them to be noticeably slower....in reality..not so. Can't see myself ever going back to my normal 28mm tyres.
5. Got new mudguards, PDW metal fenders, almost perfect colour match to gunmetal frame colour.....but the aluminium stays are a bit naff, I can't get the 'guards to sit centrally....will try to some how graft SKS stay attachments onto these 'guards, I don't think you can beat the SKS steel stays for adjustability and rigidity.
6. Because of new 40mm tyres I had to ride without 'guards for a few days....B&M IXOS IQ light failed...presumably due to water ingress...Edeluxe 2 now installed. (had been having a few probs with usb socket for some while). Edeluxe light pattern is wider but can't say a massive improvement....and I miss the handlebar on/off switch.
7. Started doing the Strava PBP challenge so no time to take bike off road to do decent wiring upgrade and full mudguards fitment. Will do that that at end of month. First time I've ever been able to even contemplate such a thing with my new comfortable setup......Thanks again Dan for the Thudbuster suggestion. Will definitely get a LT version for my Surly KM
8. Just back from beer and curry celebration with a mate of mine....40yrs since we both started work together at Post Office Telecommunications as apprentices.....40yrs....where did it go?...I left in 1989..he's still there!!!
Steve
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Bit of an update for anyone interested in my ar*e saga...
Very interested! A number of friends have had to take recent breaks from cycling due to sore bottoms. One of our more well-traveled members has had to take a complete year-long break from cycling for this very reason. Another is making the rounds of physicians trying to find the root cause. By so generously sharing your journey and efforts to address the problem, you're helping a lot of members who are suffering silently.
3. Decided to give my old B17 another chance.....it's like a different saddle with the Thudbuster....by far the most comfortable of the saddle's I've got. Much flatter profile than the C17.
...and...First time I've ever been able to even contemplate such a thing with my new comfortable setup......Thanks again Dan for the Thudbuster suggestion. Will definitely get a LT version for my Surly KM
So glad it brought some relief, Steve. :) I've found the B.17 and Thudbuster ST/LT combo to be sublime and wished I had overcome my reluctance motivated by appearance, skepticism, and cost years earlier. Putting the two together really has made a difference on my longer (300-400km) day rides. I return feeling fresher and it just isn't as tiring along the way. Sure hoping the change will remain positive for you and you can get some distance in *comfortably*.
Best of luck and all support on the Strava PBP challenge.
All the best,
Dan.
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Hi Steve,
At the risk of being branded a Brooks heretic in this forum (in my defence, Brooks occupies pride of place on five of our family's seven bikes), can I respectfully suggest you take a look at the range of excellent products from (Brooks parent company) Selle Royal. Many of these saddles have deep but firm cushioning with a perineal cutout to protect the sensitive bits. While cushioning is only one factor in saddle comfort, it sounds in your case what may precisely be needed.
While I personally have never ridden one, my buddy in the LBS is a fervent acolyte, and he has managed to convince my wife to try one on her next visit.
Methinks this change, together with a careful examination of your riding position and posture, may even obviate the need for a Thudbuster or other engineered solutions.
http://www.selleroyal.com/en/comfort (http://www.selleroyal.com/en/comfort)
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Regarding your Ixon IQ light failure, get in touch with B&M and tell them it's stopped working, they are very good with sending out a new light even if the faulty one is out of warranty period.
They replaced mine no problem, and I've heard of a couple of others being replaced too.
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I messaged Mark Beaumont on facebook last week i asked him what saddle he used on his reckord breaking world tour he said he uses the Sella SMP Pro.
obviously is a top rated saddle if he uses it. ;)
anto.
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Gosh Steve I thought I had issues sorting out saddles, funny you found the C17 different, I didn't use it with a thudbuster so may be that was the diffence, I used the thudbuster ST with a rido 2 which was OK, with the RIDO I always found I was fidgeting around to get in the right position, with the ST I always thought it wasn't moving! But you could tell it was if you held the seat post mechanism whilst going along, choosing the correct elastema seemed critical ... It would be great to see the completed bike, your frame colour was the one was going for until the black frame came up on eBay
Mark
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Steve have you that bike finished yet :'( :'(
i can't take it any more its driving me nuts waiting for the final few photos.
anto.
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Slammim'.....Thanks for the suggestion. Yes they look interesting. But I should say this isn't a new problem for me...it's a problem I first encountered 30yrs ago, but I've only been cycling on a regular basis for last 10yrs....I've never solved it and of course in that time I've tried quite a few saddles on many bikes with different riding positions. I'm not saying position isn't a factor...it's probably several factors that are playing their own part in my discomfort and discovering what they are and to what degree each is having an impact..will probably remain undiscovered. As I've said I've never had any soreness in the perineum, it's almost totally in my sit bones and same as you suggest I've always felt that some padding in that area would go some way to alleviate the problem....but I've tried gel saddles and gel saddle covers before...none helped....but open to try again.
SR seem to have a large range of models...I think I'm probably in their 60 degree bracket...I'll definitely give them a thorough look at. But for the moment the Thudbuster, 40mm tyres and B17 have made it possible for me to do a reasonable distance on consecutive days which truly is a massive change for me, so for the next few weeks I'll experiment further with this setup but having said that I'm fairly certain the TB and big tyres are here to stay, there's no point in me finding a partial solution and then immediately looking for alternatives. When the new bike is totally finished I can then look at further improvements. If I can find a shop with a high-tech bottom/saddle analysis tool I might very well give it a try. Decent saddles are too expensive to keep on buying and trying. Anyway which SR saddle(s) have you/family/friends good experience of?
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Thanks Dan...yes it's such a massive improvement...I think the TB and big tyres are equally responsible for the change. I put the softest elastomer in yesterday...not sure if there's a discernible difference..I'll give it a few more days.
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Rualexander, thanks for the tip on returning the IQ light, I'll definitely do that soon. It's only 2-3 yrs old, not seen too much use. They can only say no!!. I notice from elsewhere on this forum that they improved the design by making the lead to the switch permanently attached rather than a detachable one, so presumably they had other users with water ingress problems.
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Anto....feckin' pictures!!! :)...I did say twice already that I would post some pics when it's finished...but here's 2 bad pics in fading light. Only front mudguard fitted, temp pedals, dodgy dynamo wiring, un-cut steerer.
I'm going to put the rear dynamo light wiring under the rear mudguard so it's not cable-tied to the rear rack. I also have a "the plug" to fit and thinking about a 2nd light..I do cycle at night a lot in pitch black lanes...but don't want multiple pairs of wires running down the fork leg so am thinking if there's anyway of having a 6v distribution block on the accessory bar, but this is dependant on finding suitable parts....and time...am busy at the moment racking some miles up.
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Mark...yes I was exactly the same on the Rido...always fidgeting around, it was better than the C17 but couldn't say it was anything like comfortable. Yes I'll definitely post some decent pics when bike is finished. If the PDW mudguards don't work out..(the stays are pretty useless...and there's maybe not enough clearance for hiding wiring underneath) then I'll put some bigger SKS ones on I've got here. Also...have you had any probs with chain becoming slack too quickly after adjusting EBB, I torqued it up ok..but the chain has developed too much slack after a 100 miles or so...that can't be right. it's a new chain BTW.
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Looking good Steve thanks for the pic's.
anto
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I remember having a similar problem, when I first built the bike, but put it down to not tightening the ebb enough, the Thorn instructions made me a bit nervous of over tightening, now I work my way round the bolts and then set them at 5nm seems OK ... I also think a new Thorn chain ring needs a few miles to quieten down not sure if that also contributes to the problem ...
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Yes I think you're right Mark, I went by the advice from AB and did not torque up to the max of 5nm. I'll just nip it up a bit tighter and see how it goes.
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I have 28mm (29mm measured!) on one bike and 32mm on my Club Tour Grand Bois tyres similar to the Compass tyres. Very comfortable, supple and fast. However not cheap and I wouldn't use them commuting. They have transformed my riding as they are just so comfortable.
Steve
Sorry for late reply Steve...missed your message.
Yes I saw those tyres were highly recommended but I couldn't find anyone in Uk with any stock...got 40mm supremes now though, and very happy with them.
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I ordered some 40mm Marathon Supremes
Steve, sorry I missed a couple of your earlier posts. A few observations from my experience with Supremes:
1) I use 26 x 1.6 Supremes on my Raven. The nominal width of 1.6" (40.64 mm) is 39mm actual, inflated, so I take it from your comments on the wider tires and the TB, that you 700 x 40's fit and are comfortable. Good news!
I've had no puncture problems with my 1.6 Supremes (only 2 seasons' experience with them so far, however) and they offer good speed (within my limits and those of the bike), good grip and comfort, though I expect the 26 x 2.0 are even better in that respect. I have had some problems with sidewall cuts. One was serious, the second less so. Both were repairable, one with an emergency bodge. I wrote about that on the crazyguy thread on 26 x 1.6 Supremes, if you're interested: https://www.crazyguyonabike.com/reviews/board/message/?o=tS&thread_id=350687&page=1&nested=0&v=32
2) Comments on the Thorn Forum of 700c Supremes have generally been positive, as I recall.
3) Not enough experience with my 700 x 35 Racers to get any punctures. I have read very positive reviews of Racers of different sizes from users here and on crazyguy.
Good luck in any case, John
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ach, just had my second flat of the season with my 47-559 Marathon Racers. Granted it is a rather dreadful stretch of road, but the grocery store is that-a-way. Which means of course my tools are buried beneath the nectarines etc. A nice little vegetable selection spread out on the side of the road as I pull things apart and put them back together.
This time it was a bit of wire - looked a bit like a staple. Somehow it had gone 90% of the way through the tire. The fix was straightforward. Happy to report that my second time fixing a rear flat with the chainglider, I have the pattern down better, and it is really simple. Plus the clean chain is sure nicer to work with!
I had one couple in a car stop to check on me, then some kids drive by yelling who knows what, then a state trooper stop with his lights flashing and we had a nice chat. "Why do you ride on this road?'" he asks. To get to the other side, classic answer. I put in a plug for a stretch of local rail to be converted to trail. Lots of nice riding in the county but right where I live it's a bit of a nasty knot!
Two flats in a few months... might just be time to switch tires. I have some Mondials lying about, or should I get some Marathon Plus? Hmmm.