Thorn Audax 853 weight limit

[Far-Oeuf]

I may get banned from the forum for saying this...
but at 19 stone and six foot five, I bought a Surly Long Haul Trucker because it has a 25 stone weight limit. It may not be as quick a bike as you want, but it rides really nicely and does everything I want it to.

Jim

My 58cm Surly LHT frame is only 200g heavier than my 56cm CT 4 frame.   The Surly is as quick as the rider, I find it as quick as the CT 4 frame.  Most of the 'quickness' of a bike is in the components, not the frame.   The components that come on a new LHT/Disc Trucker are much better than those spec'd on the CT.   The Surly goes everywhere, including loaded rides off-road.  My LHT was derided by a roadie group, until I out sprinted their carbon-whatnots up a climb.

When I was buying the CT, and considering the Audax 3, I was told that the Audax shouldn't be ridden on anything worse than a smooth canal tow path (with no luggage).   This kind of went against everything I thought I knew about steel bikes; in that they were pretty tough.   But then, over the past year, as I've ridden the CT and compared it against my own experiences with the Surly, I've come to the conclusion that 'versatility' is viewed by Thorn and Thorn enthusiasts as a negative characteristic.

I love the fact that I cycled up Ventoux on TdF day, full loaded, and I'm cycling past weight-weenies in full Rapha clothing.   The value of my LHT is in it's versatility, a week prior I was crossing from Spain into France on an off-road trail.   I think this is the cultural fork in the road, where you take a left to Surly-ville, or right onto the road that values specialisation.

Certainly, if you promote/foster the idea of specialisation you sell more bikes.   Owners of multiple bikes feel good, at having the right tool for the job (I guess).   This is my bike for smooth roads, if I want to ride a canal path I take this one, off-road is this one, cloudy days I take this other one.   The crazyness of 'gravel bikes' highlights this perfectly; it's a CX bike with new stickers, and a CX bike is a touring bike with new stickers.

A sherpa seems complete overkill/over-specialisation, just to be able to carry 15kg.   15kg!   Get yourself a cheap mountian bike, or a second hand cheap mountain bike, and go and have fun.  Use the £1000 you just saved to go on an adventure.   I took a £200 Edinburgh Bicycle Cuillin mountain bike with 40kg of luggage on my first tour.   Or just take your 853, I find it inconceivable that a steel bike would wilt with an extra 15kg on smooth roads.

I've realised that some people won't ever see the value of a LHT, because they've gone past that cultural fork in the road and are unwilling to backup a bit and question themselves.   And when people compare Surly's to Ordinarys, Bromptons, etc, it simply betrays something about their cultural stubornness.   Those sorts of people are not attacking Surlys or Bromptons, they're declaring their own loyalty to specialisation.

If you do a search for Joff Sommerfield, you'll find a pretty adventurous guy currently in Central America on his Ordinary, which he built himself.   On this trip he's ridden down from Canana, and I think that sort of distance makes his bike 'versatile' and therefore of great value.

cheers,

[leftpoole]

My 58cm Surly LHT frame is only 200g heavier than my 56cm CT 4 frame.   The Surly is as quick as the rider, I find it as quick as the CT 4 frame.  Most of the 'quickness' of a bike is in the components, not the frame.   The components that come on a new LHT/Disc Trucker are much better than those spec'd on the CT.   The Surly goes everywhere, including loaded rides off-road.  My LHT was derided by a roadie group, until I out sprinted their carbon-whatnots up a climb.

When I was buying the CT, and considering the Audax 3, I was told that the Audax shouldn't be ridden on anything worse than a smooth canal tow path (with no luggage).   This kind of went against everything I thought I knew about steel bikes; in that they were pretty tough.   But then, over the past year, as I've ridden the CT and compared it against my own experiences with the Surly, I've come to the conclusion that 'versatility' is viewed by Thorn and Thorn enthusiasts as a negative characteristic.

I love the fact that I cycled up Ventoux on TdF day, full loaded, and I'm cycling past weight-weenies in full Rapha clothing.   The value of my LHT is in it's versatility, a week prior I was crossing from Spain into France on an off-road trail.   I think this is the cultural fork in the road, where you take a left to Surly-ville, or right onto the road that values specialisation.

Certainly, if you promote/foster the idea of specialisation you sell more bikes.   Owners of multiple bikes feel good, at having the right tool for the job (I guess).   This is my bike for smooth roads, if I want to ride a canal path I take this one, off-road is this one, cloudy days I take this other one.   The crazyness of 'gravel bikes' highlights this perfectly; it's a CX bike with new stickers, and a CX bike is a touring bike with new stickers.

A sherpa seems complete overkill/over-specialisation, just to be able to carry 15kg.   15kg!   Get yourself a cheap mountian bike, or a second hand cheap mountain bike, and go and have fun.  Use the £1000 you just saved to go on an adventure.   I took a £200 Edinburgh Bicycle Cuillin mountain bike with 40kg of luggage on my first tour.   Or just take your 853, I find it inconceivable that a steel bike would wilt with an extra 15kg on smooth roads.

I've realised that some people won't ever see the value of a LHT, because they've gone past that cultural fork in the road and are unwilling to backup a bit and question themselves.   And when people compare Surly's to Ordinarys, Bromptons, etc, it simply betrays something about their cultural stubornness.   Those sorts of people are not attacking Surlys or Bromptons, they're declaring their own loyalty to specialisation.

If you do a search for Joff Sommerfield, you'll find a pretty adventurous guy currently in Central America on his Ordinary, which he built himself.   On this trip he's ridden down from Canana, and I think that sort of distance makes his bike 'versatile' and therefore of great value.

cheers,

Hello,
I can read, I can read into the above!
Let the opening poster spend his money on what he wants! Preferably a Thorn. From what I recall 'you' were not keen on your Club Tour?
Regards,
John

[martinf]

Get yourself a cheap mountian bike, or a second hand cheap mountain bike, and go and have fun.  Use the £1000 you just saved to go on an adventure.   I took a £200 Edinburgh Bicycle Cuillin mountain bike with 40kg of luggage on my first tour.   Or just take your 853, I find it inconceivable that a steel bike would wilt with an extra 15kg on smooth roads.

I'd agree with the cheap mountain bike for a loaded tour.

My original plan for my 2011 Spain trip (just under a month) was to get a Thorn Nomad tourer with a Rohloff. But I left it too late to order and fettle a new bike.

I had the choice of 5 bikes for my tour :

- a 531 frame lightweight tourer from 1977, originally 27" but converted to 700C.
- a fairly heavy steel frame mountain bike from 1990
- a very old steel frame 650B wheel bike with 5-speed hub gears.
- a fairly new Moulton TSR
- a Brompton, fettled with reasonably wide range gearing.

I had enough time to ride all the way and back without using other transport, so discounted the use of the Moulton and the Brompton. I have had good tours with these two bikes, especially the latter, which has often enabled me to get a few days riding on family visits or work-related trips, combined with use of buses and trains.

The 650B bike didn't have enough gear range for the Pyrenees and the Picos, and, though it will take the load, my lightweight tourer doesn't behave very well with a month's worth of luggage, so I chose the mountain bike.

I spent a bit of money converting it to suit my idea of what I wanted - dynohub, steel 24T inner chainring, new wide capacity Deore rear derailleur, drop bars, Marathon Supreme 2.0 tyres - but the new parts were only a fraction of the price of a dedicated touring bike.

I had great fun on my tour, the only real downside was the cleaning required for the derailleur transmission, which meant that I avoided some opportunities to ride on tracks and paths so as to reduce the amount of muck getting on chain/sprockets. 

I have since bought a dedicated touring bike, so will be ready for my next big tour. Andy Blance talked me out of a Nomad, so I got one of the last Raven Tours (slightly heavier frame than the current Raven), which should be sufficiently robust for the kind of touring I am likely to do.

[Far-Oeuf]

I spent a bit of money converting it to suit my idea of what I wanted - dynohub, steel 24T inner chainring, new wide capacity Deore rear derailleur, drop bars, Marathon Supreme 2.0 tyres - but the new parts were only a fraction of the price of a dedicated touring bike.

That's the best way to go I think, self-build.

Just to be clear, I'm not suggestion specialisation (or Thorn) is a bad thing.   Simply pointing out to that the suggestion of a Surly will likely fall on deaf ears to a Thorn rider, as it often does to many people who feel a tailored bike is the best tool for the job.  Not because there's anything wrong with a Surly Trucker, but for the reason that what a person feels and observes as 'value' is different.

Also I do think that the majority of people are quite capable of recognising objective value in the bikes/things that they may not personally want, that different things work for different people.

cheers,

[John Saxby]

Simply pointing out to that the suggestion of a Surly will likely fall on deaf ears to a Thorn rider, as it often does to many people who feel a tailored bike is the best tool for the job.

Drifting a wee bit away from the question of the Audax 853's carrying capacity, I know, but I have a rather different take on the Surly/Thorn/specialisation question:  I was looking for a versatile bike, with a capacity for loaded touring. From some questioning around the Ottawa area where I live (not so helpful, really) and more from combing through crazyguy and this forum, I narrowed the search quite quickly to a Surly LHT and a Thorn Raven, precisely because of the versatility--hence, for me, value--which both offer.  I especially liked the price of the LHT relative to the Raven--2 for 1, really. The biggest negative for me with the Surly was the fact that I'd had ten years of derailleur hassles of one kind or another, and (more positively) the Rohloff offered a better gear-inch range for my purposes, and one more easily adjusted. On balance, the Rohloff was the deciding factor, linked as well to the fact that the Raven was purpose-built for the Rohloff. No regrets at all so far, although I understand the appeal of the LHT.

As for the specialisation question, I dunno about that.  I now have three bikes--a tiny number for some, I know: two variants on a touring bike, both versatile, but the Thorn much more so because it's better suited to loaded touring than my derailleur-equipped ti-and-carbon Eclipse; and a city bike, our son's converted MTB which is closing on 20 years now.

[BobScarle]

Thank you all for taking the time to respond. I really don't have a problem with the LHT and will certainly consider it (no deaf ears here), I am also looking at the Kona Sutra. I enjoy riding my audax 853 bike so it is only natural that I should look at the Thorn range.

I also have 3 bikes, the aforementioned Audax 853, a carbon fibre Bianchi and an old hybrid / mountain bike. The audax, as discussed, would not be suitable. The  Bianchi is of course the wrong type of bike and would not work. So that leaves me with the hybrid. I have read with interest the comments about a cheap mountain bikes and I have to say I am looking at the hybrid in a different light. I think there may be some mileage in getting it out and taking a long hard look at it. I have always thought that as it was fairly low quality it would not be any good. Maybe it's time to buy some road tyres and give it a serious workout.

Bob

[DAntrim]

Up until I purchased a club tour late last year, I've used a hybrid with a rear rack and it worked fine for the UK / France.

Carlos

[John Saxby]

Worth looking at the hybrid/MTB option, Bob, for sure.  In 2007, I rode from Ottawa to Halifax via the hills of New England with a South African friend. It was my 60th birthday, and he was 72 at the time.  I had my derailleur Eclipse, towing a trailer, and he rode my Miele hybrid with rear rack & panniers, and a handlebar bag.  We camped most of the time.  The Miele had an ordinary 8-spd Shimano, and he had no problems at all--not with the bike, not with the ride.  I had some derailleur problems, of course...

[jags]

just read this thread  all i can say is if my new audax 853 breaks with a light load on it i'll sell the wife buy a donkey and move to spain live on the beach.

i look at other bike forums a lot  and theres loads of lads  touring on carbon bike's  without a problem ,i reckon thorn are just covering there ass saying 15kg is the absolute max weight  ,shoot over to utube and look for guys touring on lesser bikes with very heavy loads.
i wonder did the op actually buy a sherpa or did he chance the 853 guess we will never know.

anto who's a bit late answering this thread but better late than never.

[leftpoole]

just read this thread  all i can say is if my new audax 853 breaks with a light load on it i'll sell the wife buy a donkey and move to spain live on the beach.

i look at other bike forums a lot  and theres loads of lads  touring on carbon bike's  without a problem ,i reckon thorn are just covering there ass saying 15kg is the absolute max weight  ,shoot over to utube and look for guys touring on lesser bikes with very heavy loads.
i wonder did the op actually buy a sherpa or did he chance the 853 guess we will never know.

anto who's a bit late answering this thread but better late than never.

Hello Jags,
YOU do not have an Audax 853! You have an Audax Mk3.
The Audax 853 has not been manufactured for a long time, possibly 15 years or more.
Enjoy what you now have....
John

[jags]

strange that it says 853 on the seat tube.

[leftpoole]

It like says 858
John

[jags]

possible will have to check  but its in the box  packed away until im ready to build .not bother either way to be honest it looks class that will do me fine.

[leftpoole]

Hello,
It is not a 'possible' at all, it is a fact! 858 is Thorn own brand tube. 853 is Reynolds tube.
Unpack it and drool.......
John

[BobScarle]

As there are a few late posts on this, I thought I might give a very quick update.

In the end I listened to Thorn and decided that it was not worth taking the risk of bending or breaking the 853. I sold the hybrid as I didn't fancy trying to make something of that and eventually bought a Genesis Tour de Fer. I did a couple of really good tours on it, very happy. I am sure there are plenty of other bikes that would have done to job but this one came up at the right price so I gave it a go. I hope to tour a lot more on it.

My 853 is still going although there are some ripples on the paintwork on the top tube. I do not know what has caused them, it doesn't look like rust, although it could be.