Author Topic: Matt's old bird  (Read 28327 times)

JimK

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Re: Matt's old bird
« Reply #180 on: March 11, 2015, 02:06:29 PM »
I think you'll want to pull the crank arms off the bottom bracket axle first, then pull the bottom bracket axle and bearings out of the EBB. Sliding the EBB out of the frame would be the last step. That's what I understood from Dan and it sure sounds like a smart approach.

I'm waiting another week or two for the snow and ice to be finished and then I will be doing a bit of work myself... take off the studded tires, but then I am putting on a chainglider. New chainring, sprocket, and chain for the chainglider to protect! Do I need any thin little spacers for the chainring bolts to clamp properly the thinner new steel chainring versus the alloy chainring I have on there now? I am assuming that popping the chainglider on is easy... curious that getting it back off wasn't so easy!

John Saxby

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Re: Matt's old bird
« Reply #181 on: March 11, 2015, 03:09:56 PM »
Quote
Do I need any thin little spacers for the chainring bolts to clamp properly the thinner new steel chainring versus the alloy chainring I have on there now?

Jim, depending on which crank arm & spider you have (I have Sugino XD2's), 6 mm long chainring bolts should do the job of mating the alloy spider foot to the stainless ring, with no washers necessary. You can get Stronglight cro-moly bolts from SJSC (I installed these over the winter, replacing the alloy ones I used to have); Peter White also sells the Stronglight bolts, since he now offers Sugino XD2 crank arms/spiders.  Problemsolver also offer stainless 6mm bolts as well as the alloy items.

Hope that's helpful -- let me know if you need the part #s or any of those.

Good luck with all this, John

PS:  finally, a break in winter here -- it was 10 degrees yesterday!  Heard some crows for the first time (about 2-3 weeks later than usual), a reliable sign that spring really will come.

Danneaux

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Re: Matt's old bird
« Reply #182 on: March 11, 2015, 05:22:20 PM »
Quote
I think you'll want to pull the crank arms off the bottom bracket axle first, then pull the bottom bracket axle and bearings out of the EBB. Sliding the EBB out of the frame would be the last step.
Yep!

...and if you find the EBB is "reluctant" to leave its little nest, there's help for that as well:
http://www.thorncycles.co.uk/removingseizedeccentric.html
More on the topic here, should it rear its ugly head:
http://www.thorncycles.co.uk/forums/index.php?topic=2828.0

I think I'd use this as an opportunity to clean up and would spritz a bit of penetrating oil on the chainring sleeve nuts (they appear captive in the alloy crank spider) and don't forget the grease/anti-seize when reassembling.

By the way, you won't have to completely remove the EBB retaining screws to remove the insert, but this would be a good time to lube the threads with anti-seize for easier adjustment in future.

Best,

Dan.
« Last Edit: March 11, 2015, 05:43:51 PM by Danneaux »

Matt2matt2002

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Re: Matt's old bird
« Reply #183 on: March 11, 2015, 07:38:35 PM »
Thanks Dan.
Just talk me through that last part.

I have never removed the EBB or bottom bracket cassette.

Yep. Grease it if it moves is my motto.

Matt
Never drink and drive. You may hit a bump  and spill your drink

JimK

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Re: Matt's old bird
« Reply #184 on: March 11, 2015, 08:21:30 PM »
Might be a good place for me to repeat my little trick for adjusting the EBB. My trick doesn't really work on the first chain but then later on it helps preserve the EBB.

The trick with making the EBB work is that you want to keep the indents distinct that are made by those big grub bolts. Every time you adjust the EBB to snug up the chain or to put on a new chain, you want those bolts to come down right into an existing indent, or to make a fresh indent that won't touch an existing indent.

What I do is to pull one of those grub bolts all the way out and then use a headlamp to help me peer down into that hole so I can see the existing indents. I wrestle with the EBB position a bit, so the chain has just a little slack and either an existing indent is square at the bottom of the hole or well off to one side or the other. I can finger tighten the other grub bolt down - the indents from the two bolts should all match up - then I can put back in the bolt I had removed. Of course I regrease this bolt first!

If I am lucky, I toggle back and forth between the two bolts as I shift the EBB every six months or whatever it is. That way both bolts get a regular regreasing. But certainly, when you are replacing the EBB, might as well regrease both of them!

Danneaux

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Re: Matt's old bird
« Reply #185 on: March 11, 2015, 09:20:06 PM »
Excellent suggestion from JimK, Matt; it would pay to heed it.

Okay...here's the basic steps:

1) Remove both crank arms using your crank puller.

2) Using the BB cartridge socket, start on the left side and remove the left cup/retaining ring, following these directions to remove the BB cartridge:
http://www.parktool.com/blog/repair-help/cartridge-bearing-type-bottom-bracket-service-bbt

3) Loosen (or remove, if you wish to regrease them) both EBB retaining bolts.

4) Remove the EBB insert from the bike's BB shell.

That'll get everything clear to where you can clean it up and regrease/re-antiseize, ready for reassembly. Reassembly is the reverse of the above steps: Insert new EBB, secure with bolts, insert BB cartridge and torque tight to specs, mount crank arms and tighten to specs, replace chain, tension chain.

An additional suggestion in preparation for your long tour: Chains stretch on long tours, and sometimes they eventually stretch so much you can't take up the slack anymore by adjusting the eccentric. Instead, you have to remove a link pair and shorten the chain, then start over with the eccentric adjustment. Typically, the need for this task will make itself known during pounding rain and a headwind while climbing a steep hill in exposed country with no cover. It is then you'll be glad you took advance care to prep your chain with *two* quick-links on either side of an inner link so you can simply remove the spare section of chain and connector and -- voila! -- it is now short enough to once again snug things up leaving the proper slack using the eccentric. Sure saves a lot of time and aggravation when it really counts.

I learned this the hard way, deep in the middle of very rural Romania.

I shortened the chain and the factory mushroomed pin promptly dropped into deep grass. No problem, I had a quick-link. Big problem, the link was for 9-sp and Andy's bike turned out to have an 8-sp chain. All my spare quick-links were for 9-sp as were the ones he kindly provided as additional spares. 0.1mm can make a big difference at such times, as the quick-link just won't close without persuasion greater than a thumb and finger.

I owe the continuance of my tour (and avoidance of what would have been a 190km round trip bus ride plus lengthy hike to the nearest bike shop in C?l?ra?i) to a very kindly farmer who had access to a pair of pliers that allowed the connector to compress and then slide. To thank him for 150 minutes of his time, I went to the village store and bought him five of their best imported chocolate bars. When we met by accident a second time on my return trip, he greeted me with kisses on each cheek and forehead, a hug and hearty handshakes and called me Brother. He thought he'd never see me again after we parted the first time and had been very concerned about my safety and welfare. Those events make for some wonderfully Adventurous tour memories, but can be stressful at the time. Save yourself some hassle and take a variety of quick-links, just in case you need to buy a replacement chain along the way. Not all chains come with quick-link connectors and those can save the day if they're the right width. Be sure to save any chain links that need to be removed for sizing. They're "gold" if needed later for repairs. And be sure to properly thank anyone who helps you along the way and afterwards.

Best,

Dan.
« Last Edit: March 11, 2015, 09:58:12 PM by Danneaux »

Matt2matt2002

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Re: Matt's old bird
« Reply #186 on: March 11, 2015, 09:55:48 PM »
Thanks Dan.
Especially for the chain link tip.
I will do it and carry a couple of spares!

Matt
Never drink and drive. You may hit a bump  and spill your drink

brummie

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Re: Matt's old bird
« Reply #187 on: March 11, 2015, 10:14:15 PM »
With regards the poor braking in the wet: below is a post from the CTC forum which maybe of interest ( I replaced my Carbide rims with plain alloy Grizzly, but may relace the Carbide once the alloy ones have worn & try the Salmon pads ( which ARE excellent on my current alloy rims.)

Re: Grizzley CSS Rims: (very) long term report

Postby 531colin Tue Feb 17, 2015 5:35 pm
Got carbide Grizzleys on a couple of bikes for roughstuff.
When my wet braking deteriorated, I figured the rims were smooth enough to use KoolStop Salmon.....and they are! and they stop!
 

Matt2matt2002

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Re: Matt's old bird
« Reply #188 on: March 12, 2015, 05:55:13 PM »
Day 3
Well, if it can go wrong.....

Decided to take another look at the crank removal job.
Thanks Dan for the tips.
However I forgot to disconnect the shifter cables before removing the rear wheel.
One of the wires popped out of the end tip holder.
I managed to undo the 2 grub screws and refit the wire but it was touch n go.
Chainglider off and -----
Well, my confidence had gone after making the silly mistake with the cable and I'm pretty sure I don't have the correct tools for the job.
Took a good look at the underneath - checked the 2 retaining bolts for the EBB - no play or untoward sounds from the cassette - so I'll leave well alone.

Only good thing from the work today is that I feel I can now give a masterclass in Chainglider fitting and removal. ;)

Nice to be able to work inside!


Did I mention, Mrs. Matt is away?
 ;D ;D


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julk

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Re: Matt's old bird
« Reply #189 on: March 12, 2015, 06:33:04 PM »
Matt,
Sorry to hear that the job is still underway,
raising the bike up a bit, say on the sofa, would make working on it a bit easier ;D
Julian.

Danneaux

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Re: Matt's old bird
« Reply #190 on: March 12, 2015, 07:25:05 PM »
...and that end table with the picture on it would level things out nicely...give a good, solid surface for the handlebars with the rest on the couch as Julian suggests. Covering the table could make things slippy, so best leave it bare. What could happen?

All the best,

Dan. (...who reminds you there is no crisis of confidence, just falling back to regroup; you'll do fine)

John Saxby

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Re: Matt's old bird
« Reply #191 on: March 12, 2015, 10:33:08 PM »
Quote
I can now give a masterclass in Chainglider fitting and removal.

Useful skill, Matt--more people, in more places, & more frequently, will fit & remove their 'gliders than their (E)BBs.  And the cred's important, too:  as their users know, & envious onlookers suspect, 'gliders are really in the realm of magic rather than mere mechanics.

geocycle

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Re: Matt's old bird
« Reply #192 on: March 12, 2015, 11:29:02 PM »
Matt,
Sorry to hear that the job is still underway,
raising the bike up a bit, say on the sofa, would make working on it a bit easier ;D
Julian.

Imagine how clean the chainglider would be it went in the dishwasher! Endless possibilities for interior bike maintenance.
 

geocycle

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Re: Matt's old bird
« Reply #193 on: March 12, 2015, 11:33:47 PM »
Sympathies regarding the Rohloff cables. Those grub screws are too tiny. I also don't blame you regarding the BB. I couldn't shift the one on my original rohloff. It could just be an if it ain't broke moment...
 

Danneaux

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Re: Matt's old bird
« Reply #194 on: March 13, 2015, 01:01:33 AM »
Matt,

I don't want to egg you on past your comfort limit, but I'm a big believer in regular, preventive maintenance.

If you could tackle some of these jobs at home with the local bike shop available as a bailout option, that seems better than doing it roadside in the Karakorams, for example.  :P

All the best,

Dan. (...who just *knows* if he didn't act in advance, the marginal parts would let loose in the Middle of Nowhere).