Author Topic: Slippery Roads and Cycling Techniques/Tires :)  (Read 13574 times)

JWestland

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Slippery Roads and Cycling Techniques/Tires :)
« on: November 29, 2012, 01:58:28 pm »
Hi -

It's getting that time of year again, I was surprised by some ice on an incline I was mashing up, the XTC held it's stride and even though front/back wheel alternatively skidded (this on sportcontact slicks) it refused to go and both rider/steed got up the hill fine. Good bike moment... :)

(this is how on "honks" apparently! http://www.perfectcondition.ltd.uk/Articles/honking/Honking.htm)

Tire-wise: I saw that Schwalbe Marathon Studded tires (heavy but very good grip) and non-studded Continental Winter Tires come recommended on the forum.

Cycling-wise: I would tend to go heavy gear as possible and low RPM to ensure there's more control/traction (A fixed bike will always have more traction/control due to direct drive)

What are your winter stories/tips? Mine will be weenie as the only heroics were 2 years ago when there were 2 inches of snow and my commute turned into a dance with black ice but no doubt some of you seen 20 inches of snow ;)


Pedal to the metal! Wind, rain, hills, braking power permitting ;)

jags

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Re: Slippery Roads and Cycling Techniques/Tires :)
« Reply #1 on: November 29, 2012, 02:08:30 pm »
ever since i broke my collor bone on black ice i'm very weary about going out when theres ice about.
jeez that rymes might put a few chords to that. ;D

JWestland

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Re: Slippery Roads and Cycling Techniques/Tires :)
« Reply #2 on: November 29, 2012, 02:42:57 pm »
Public transport here is woeful, and I am not licensed yet to be a danger on the road  ;D
Bear in mind that some country roads for cars can be hazards too...

http://www.bikeforums.net/archive/index.php/t-132521.html info on how to fall if the worst happens ;)
« Last Edit: November 29, 2012, 02:54:23 pm by JWestland »
Pedal to the metal! Wind, rain, hills, braking power permitting ;)

bikepacker

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Re: Slippery Roads and Cycling Techniques/Tires :)
« Reply #3 on: November 29, 2012, 03:18:31 pm »
I have used the Marathon studded tyres for the last two winters and think they are excellent. I have cycled on sheet ice with no problem. I tend to run them at about 60 psi at that there is still a good central normal tread and edge grip on the studs. The recommended way is to inflate to 80 for good roads and 45 for icy or slipery roads.
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jags

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Re: Slippery Roads and Cycling Techniques/Tires :)
« Reply #4 on: November 29, 2012, 03:35:40 pm »
i think i'll just get the turbo trainer out

JimK

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Re: Slippery Roads and Cycling Techniques/Tires :)
« Reply #5 on: November 29, 2012, 03:35:47 pm »
The recommended way is to inflate to 80 for good roads and 45 for icy or slippery roads.

That sounds about right for maybe the 35 mm width tires. I have the 47 mm wide winter tires. For those, 45 is more like the good road pressure and maybe 30 or 35 when the roads are messy.

JWestland

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Re: Slippery Roads and Cycling Techniques/Tires :)
« Reply #6 on: November 29, 2012, 03:47:01 pm »
So...the Marathons are 555 grams heavier per tire than my sport-contacts. And will have a metric ton of rolling resistance. NOT FUN, If I have to, I have to of course :)

Continental’s TopContact Winter are an alternative.

Does anybody has any experience with these? A mere 150 g more per tire, and there won't be a meter of snow where I live, ice is the main hazard.

Pedal to the metal! Wind, rain, hills, braking power permitting ;)

julk

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Re: Slippery Roads and Cycling Techniques/Tires :)
« Reply #7 on: November 29, 2012, 04:28:18 pm »
Jawine,
I am with BP on this one - if riding on smooth ice is your requirement than I have found the studded Schwalbe Winter Marathons to be exemplary.
They also cope with transition to and from tarmac well which is what usually happens as you ride along.
A bit noisy and slow, but better than falling off and breaking something which is what I think one of my sons has just done commuting around Aberdeen.
I think he has cracked ribs, but he is not telling all yet…

Riding on rutted ice or in deeper snow needs tyres with longer spikes and a lumpier tread than the Winter Marathons.
I gave up trying to ride in those conditions a couple of years ago when we had the deep freeze and got out the rollers at times.
Julian.

Andre Jute

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Re: Slippery Roads and Cycling Techniques/Tires :)
« Reply #8 on: November 29, 2012, 05:26:13 pm »
i think i'll just get the turbo trainer out

Was thinking of y'all last night as i was standing on my Nordic Air Stalker, my earphones playing Mozart, a good book (one of my early novels!) up on my iPad, trying to pretend I was a train. Maybe I should make that video Jags is always talking about, but about riding in the lanes, then I can show it as I exercise...

Truth to tell, even our worst weather some here would consider mild and pretty attractive compared to what they're used to at home. We have black ice occasionally, but so infrequently that cyclists point to a particular piece of road on a hillside and the guy pedalling next to them, "That's where Andre slid back down the hill like a clown." Advantage of the ultra-low stepover on my bike: when I hit the black ice and started slipping off the crown of the lane towards the frozen ditch, I got both feet on the road, and could balance and even steer marginally, but without enough traction to stop, so I slid down to the bottom of the hill on the wheels and my feet in a sort of narrow diamond. Hilarious, at least in retrospect. At the time it seemed so dangerous, I stopped a couple of cars to warn the drivers. One lady who'd already tried every other way to get home to her children, paid head and crawled over the hill without incident, and one smartass in a powerful Audi snapped, "I drive on icy roads all the time," and stormed off at speed. I heard him crash and got off the narrow lane a way back so the police and ambulance could pass. That little stretch of black ice (I know it was little because I know to an inch where the water runs across the road that caused it -- I ride that lane most days of the week) was quite as dangerous as it seemed. I had a lucky escape because of the low stepover of my bike and the remnants of a sportsman's reflexes. Ever since, on cold days we take care over that section of the lane on cold days.

Andre Jute
If you aren't paranoid, you have shouldn't go on the roads on a bicycle.

Danneaux

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Re: Slippery Roads and Cycling Techniques/Tires :)
« Reply #9 on: November 29, 2012, 05:35:28 pm »
It won't be a bit of help to you I'm afraid, but waxing nostalgic, I made and used my own studded commuting tires some 34 years ago at age 18, using "pop" (self-clinching) rivets and backing plates. Worked well at a time when studded bike tires didn't exist in the US. Got me up Skinner's Butte each year (large 208m lump of basalt uplift in the center of town, with a steep access road: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skinner_Butte ). Getting down was the problem. When coming home at night, one of my great joys was touching the rear brake on drier spots and seeing the shower of sparks that resulted. A symptom, perhaps, of being 18 at the time.

I have pretty well given up riding in snow/ice when we get it here in the Willamette Valley, precisely 'cos it is snow/ice, as in a layer cake of each. We sometimes rarely get dry, fluffy snow, but more often it is wet snow. Once down, it either partially melts of gets covered with little hobnails of freezing rain (we call it Ice Nine after the Kurt Vonnegut story: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ice-nine ), then more layers of snow. When you cut through the snow with tires...there's more layers of ice and snow beneath, and all of it sticks to tires, packs them up inside the mudguards, and stops the lot from turning. In Central Oregon, there's dry powder snow (skier's delight) and I can plow through 50mm or so of the stuff with no problem.

I do remember taking falls in the bike lanes next to traffic, and one Moment (that's what F-1 pilots call "incidents") where I came really close to sliding under the wheels of a pickup truck. That kind of put me off more of the activity. Luckily, no broken bones or scrapes in Ice Nine or snow, so I count myself lucky rather than "skilled in falling" (there were some curbings/kerbings that could have done a pretty good job on me if I'd been a bit less fortunate).

Stay safe out there, Jawine.

Best,

Dan.
« Last Edit: November 29, 2012, 06:02:39 pm by Danneaux »

brummie

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Re: Slippery Roads and Cycling Techniques/Tires :)
« Reply #10 on: November 29, 2012, 06:04:10 pm »
So...the Marathons are 555 grams heavier per tire than my sport-contacts. And will have a metric ton of rolling resistance. NOT FUN, If I have to, I have to of course :)

Continental’s TopContact Winter are an alternative.

Does anybody has any experience with these? A mere 150 g more per tire, and there won't be a meter of snow where I live, ice is the main hazard.


I use Winter Marathons for the snow & ice & wouldn't be without them for winter commutes. I have also used the Conti TopContact Winter tyres which offer surprising grip in Snow - arguably better than the Winter Marathons, BUT I was never brave enough to try the Continentals on the ice...
 

JWestland

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Re: Slippery Roads and Cycling Techniques/Tires :)
« Reply #11 on: November 30, 2012, 10:48:12 am »
Tx for all the replies :)
I went on ice two years ago, extra leg scar, previous year a combination of a dryer milder winter, walking bits, cursing the city council and balance kept me upright...

LOL Dan the follies of youth?  ;D

With "ice" I meant "ice patches on cycle lanes/roads" not cycling over an icy lake ;)
I don't expect much snow here, but the cycle lanes are never gritted so there's always puddles/damp patches that freeze over for Extra Excitement.

What's best, one path isn't gritted AND has no lampposts, and has to be ridden every Wednesday for 4.5 miles, with wee hills for extra fun ;D

So, do those low snow but icy patches conditions need the Marathons or will the Continental’s TopContact Winter do? It seems the consensus here is Marathons though I read online reviews that TopContact are fine too for that use. And they're not mega super heavy.

(my Christmas pressie is sorted in any case...)
Pedal to the metal! Wind, rain, hills, braking power permitting ;)

martinf

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Re: Slippery Roads and Cycling Techniques/Tires :)
« Reply #12 on: November 30, 2012, 01:27:00 pm »
A few years ago I bought myself some studded tyres for winter use, after falling off on patches of black ice a couple of times, once getting a really huge and spectacular bruise that eventually extended from top of thigh to just below the knee.

Mine are Nokian Hakkapeliitta W240 in 26 inch size and 1.95" width - a fairly heavy, knobbly tyre, but not designed as an all-out off-road tyre. The studs are tungsten carbide tipped, so they don't wear too quickly on dry tarmac.

In South Brittany I don't need them at all some winters (2011-2012 was particularly mild), but there have been a couple of winters recently with long periods of icy roads. Typical scenario here is black ice present early morning, disappearing or cleared by road salting by the afternoon.

These tyres work well on ice and light snow, but with heavy snow (very rare here) they clog. Rolling resistance on dry tarmac isn't too bad - they are significantly slower than the Marathon Supremes I usually fit on that bike, but faster than the off-road tyres I used before in slippery conditions (Hutchinson "On the Rocks", which had a fairly soft but grippy rubber compound). The studs make quite a noise on dry tarmac.

I am still very wary when riding in icy conditions - local drivers aren't used to ice here, and very few motor vehicles have studded styres, so even if I am reasonably sure the bike won't slip I still have to watch out for sliding cars. So I ride less when there is ice.

Had the Nokians for about 5 years, but only about 700 kms use so far.

I generally fit the Nokians when the first icy spell is forecast, and remove them in March. To reduce wear on dry tarmac, on days when I think black ice is unlikely I use one of my other bikes.

JWestland

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« Last Edit: November 30, 2012, 09:10:08 pm by JWestland »
Pedal to the metal! Wind, rain, hills, braking power permitting ;)

jags

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Re: Slippery Roads and Cycling Techniques/Tires :)
« Reply #14 on: December 01, 2012, 12:31:43 pm »
would you use them on front only or both wheels ,
if the back end goes south you can control it but the front is a different story.