Author Topic: Thorn Nomad S&S or the EXP R advice please.  (Read 12514 times)

vik

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 246
Re: Thorn Nomad S&S or the EXP R advice please.
« Reply #15 on: October 07, 2009, 06:25:55 pm »
S&S coupling would have been a great upgrade, but I don't bring my bike on the plane that much, and I was afraid that in NYC it would just be easier to steal it can be unscrewed in two parts... If you leave your bike in an urban area, I would not get S&S, otherwise you would need to have additional locks and chains...

It's highly unlikely a bike thief would:

1) know what a S&S coupling was given their rarity

2) have the appropriate specialized tool on hand to open one

3) want only the front half of your bike only since you were clever and locked through the rear triangle to a rack or post.

Safe riding,

Vik
www.thelazyrando.com
Safe riding,

Vik
www.thelazyrando.com

Tito

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 15
Re: Thorn Nomad S&S or the EXP R advice please.
« Reply #16 on: October 08, 2009, 03:56:36 pm »
regarding the "appropriate specialized tool" - any adjustable pliers can be used to open an S&S coupling.

But Vik is right, I am probably a little paranoid.


julk

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 974
Re: Thorn Nomad S&S or the EXP R advice please.
« Reply #17 on: October 08, 2009, 08:56:30 pm »
I shop by bike in an area where anything left loose is stolen within 10 minutes.
My S&S equipped Thorn has never been touched, locked through the rear triangle and with Pitlock skewers though.

I had difficulty using the specialised spanner to take mine to bits recently, so tight were the couplings.
I think the average thief has little idea what these couplings are for and would struggle to dismantle a bike equipped with them.

If you are really worried then you can always insure your bike for loss/theft.

Hi

  • Guest
Re: Thorn Nomad S&S or the EXP R advice please.
« Reply #18 on: October 14, 2009, 01:24:03 am »
Hi, First post and I am finding the site very helpfull having read a lot in here before posting

This interests me greatly as I had looked at the ss raven but realised as I would not often be using the plane the ss couplings would be an added expense that I wouldn't need.

I like the idea of the rohloff but like some have mentioned I need to use what I know and the normal gears I'm okay with also the mention of weight has raised my ears. I saw the mention of 30 kg carry load and would ask for some clarification.

I intend to go on long trips that would be the full load needed, tent,stove clothes,sleeping bag etc and given I am 18 stone the mention of weight is quite important to me. I also noticed that whilst mentioning the 30 kg limit the thorn expedition rear rack states 60kg with 6mm bolts so the contradiction is puzzling to me

Thorns are never going to be cheap but when I do spend I want it to be right and long term. I had intended to buy a Sherpa world tour drop spec but am now worried about the combined personal and equipment weight

Any perspectives/experiences would be greatly received

julk

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 974
Re: Thorn Nomad S&S or the EXP R advice please.
« Reply #19 on: October 14, 2009, 09:06:33 am »
Hi, welcome to the forum.

I think you will find that the expedition capable Thorn bikes will take you and the load you need to carry.
The custom versions with 853 tubes will take even more than the standard cr-mo frames. Thorn put 50kg and 40 kg respectively in their brochure/advert. The 6mm rack bolts will be a lot stronger than 5mm ones if you are riding on rough surfaces.

If you spread the load front and back the bikes ride very stably.

Why not phone/e-mail Thorn and have a chat to one of the experts about what you need.

geocycle

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1318
Re: Thorn Nomad S&S or the EXP R advice please.
« Reply #20 on: October 14, 2009, 03:49:07 pm »
I like the idea of the rohloff but like some have mentioned I need to use what I know and the normal gears I'm okay with also the mention of weight has raised my ears. I saw the mention of 30 kg carry load and would ask for some clarification.


For your use I'd suggest that rohloff weight is really not an issue.  A rohloff is comparable in weight to most mid-range derailleur systems but probably a few hundred grams greater than some of the better ones.  If you have a bike weighing 17kg, 30kg of luggage and 114 kg of rider, then even a pessimistic 400g extra for the rohloff is 0.2%.  There are certainly reasons not to go rohloff, and cost is high on the list, but not weight on a touring bike.
 

Hi

  • Guest
Re: Thorn Nomad S&S or the EXP R advice please.
« Reply #21 on: October 14, 2009, 05:42:38 pm »
Thanks Julk/Geocycle for the welcome

Julk in the next few weeks I will be contacting Thorn/sjs direct, Geocycle sorry I must have written it wrongly I wasn't worried about the weight of a rohloff but more mine and my equipments weight.

As to the concern over the rohloff I read Thorns site and it emphasized that steel is best because it can be repaired anywhere in the world from a modern town to an outback village that's the reason I've excluded the rohloff, it can't be fixed anywhere but the conventional gears can. I've no doubt the rohloff is an excellent piece of kit but cost and world wide resources rule it out for me

geocycle

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1318
Re: Thorn Nomad S&S or the EXP R advice please.
« Reply #22 on: October 15, 2009, 09:32:55 am »
Thanks Julk/Geocycle for the welcome

As to the concern over the rohloff I read Thorns site and it emphasized that steel is best because it can be repaired anywhere in the world from a modern town to an outback village that's the reason I've excluded the rohloff, it can't be fixed anywhere but the conventional gears can. I've no doubt the rohloff is an excellent piece of kit but cost and world wide resources rule it out for me

That is a rationale argument and should I ever be in that position is one I would have to think carefully about.  You have to way up the very low risk of anything going wrong with the potentially more difficult task of making a repair.  If I were to take that kind of trip I'd make sure I could rebuild a rohloff wheel.  After having mine for 3 years without a squeak I now have enough confidence in the rohloff to take that risk, but I fully take your point. 
 

john28july

  • Guest
Re: Thorn Nomad S&S or the EXP R advice please.
« Reply #23 on: October 15, 2009, 02:06:12 pm »
Hello
Personal view of a past owner of a Raven Tour. I did not like the bar setup (MTB) or the hub but it is a personal thing as I prefer deraileurs.
Regarding the weight with a Rohloff. Numerous riders of solos and tandems (even heavier with two onboard) jave now ridden round the World. Minor niggles with the odd broken spoke is all that appears after a great deal of searching.
John.

vik

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 246
Re: Thorn Nomad S&S or the EXP R advice please.
« Reply #24 on: October 15, 2009, 03:34:46 pm »
As to the concern over the rohloff I read Thorns site and it emphasized that steel is best because it can be repaired anywhere in the world from a modern town to an outback village that's the reason I've excluded the rohloff, it can't be fixed anywhere but the conventional gears can. I've no doubt the rohloff is an excellent piece of kit but cost and world wide resources rule it out for me

Your logic about the Rohloff vs. derailleurs is not quite right. 

First off you have to compare the likelihood of needing to repair a derailleur drive train vs. the need to repair a Rohloff hub.  Having toured with both and done lots of research about how Rohloffs can fail and how many fail I can say that the advantage goes to the Rohloff by a landslide.

Second you have to consider how likely is it that you are going to get spare derailleur parts anywhere in the world as you suggest above?  Certainly in any reasonably sized first world city you would.  But if you tour in the more remote spots of North America or Europe there are no full service bike shops to provide you with an XT derailleur when you rip yours off.  If you start looking at Africa, India, remote parts of South America spare parts are not abundant.  The more remote and far flung your bike tour the more likely you'll find no bike parts available at all.  That certainly favours components that are very unlikely to fail rather than ones that fail a lot more often.

The other thing to consider is a lot of the places that have ready access to derailleur parts, such as moderate sized first world cities, also have access to international courier services so in the unlikely event you need something for your Rohloff a phone call and a day or two in a campground/motel will see it in your hands.

Having said all that I don't think Rohloff is the perfect answer for everyone or every tour.  I own and use derailleur bikes as well as Shimano IGH bikes and a couple Rohloff rigs.  There are pros and cons to each option.

I don't like touring in populated areas with lots of cities and my favourite tours are in remote areas - deserts, mountainous areas that have little to no services.  So I'd much rather use a Rohloff that is very reliable than a derailleur drivetrain which has a lot of vulnerabilities because when I do rip my derailleur off there will be no place to get one from.

I should also point out that the Rohloff has three other really important benefits for the adventurous tourist:

1 - nearly immune to weather.  I've ridden a Rohloff bike for days on dirt roads in the pouring rain with the drivetrain literally caked in mud.  The difference between how it shifted and pedaled between day1 when it was clean and day 5 was zero - I literally couldn't tell the difference and I was too beat up at the end of each day to do any maintenance.  Riding derailleur bikes in similar conditions I haven't gone 2hrs before they stopped shifting properly and I had to either try and clean them or just give up on some gears until I did some maintenance.

2 - because you aren't shifting the chain on a Rohloff you can get so much more mileage out of one before you need to do anything.  And then you can turn the whole drivetrain around and wear it out in the other direction before replacing everything.  So even if nothing breaks the maintenance cycle for a Rohloff is so much less than a derailleur drivetrain.  If you are riding from Alaska to Ushuaia through lots of remote spots that's very important.

3 - the dishless rear Rohloff wheel is much stronger than a dished wheel and easier to maintain because spoke tension is equal.  That solves one of the big problems of a deraileur touring bike where building a robust dished wheel is a problem.  This is especially true if you are riding off paved roads where the abuse a heavily loaded rear wheel takes is 100 times worse.

safe riding,

Vik
www.thelazyrando.com
« Last Edit: October 15, 2009, 03:54:55 pm by vik »
Safe riding,

Vik
www.thelazyrando.com

Hi

  • Guest
Re: Thorn Nomad S&S or the EXP R advice please.
« Reply #25 on: October 15, 2009, 05:55:14 pm »
Vik

Many many thanks. Of course your right and my experience of bicycling has always been with the standard gear set up and perhaps the rohloff is more of an unknown than a thing to be weary of. I had the same issue with my mac, I bought it and hate it so I'm aware of my limitations rather than rohloffs

the cost issue is a big issue. It's almost like buying a solar charger at $100 but then realising you could have bought countless batteries along your route and would have probably finished your trip well before you had spent the $100

Certianly I now feel I need to dig around much more and thanks for your reply


vik

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 246
Re: Thorn Nomad S&S or the EXP R advice please.
« Reply #26 on: October 15, 2009, 06:24:19 pm »
Vik

Many many thanks. Of course your right and my experience of bicycling has always been with the standard gear set up and perhaps the rohloff is more of an unknown than a thing to be weary of. I had the same issue with my mac, I bought it and hate it so I'm aware of my limitations rather than rohloffs

the cost issue is a big issue. It's almost like buying a solar charger at $100 but then realising you could have bought countless batteries along your route and would have probably finished your trip well before you had spent the $100

Certianly I now feel I need to dig around much more and thanks for your reply

Sticking with what you know makes sense.  Lot's of people tour using derailleurs so obviously it works fine.

If you want to consider a Rohloff I will just add two things to the mix to think about:

1 - if you are not happy with a Rohloff the resale value stays quite high due to the long service life of the hub.  I believe Thorn offers a 100 day money back policy on their Rohloff bikes so you could get a good amount of test riding with little risk.

2 - if you look at the 100,000km+ service life of a Rohloff and the minimal maintenance costs the actual $/km cost of the hub is no more than a mid-level derailleur setup and if you ride enough kms you can certainly save money with a Rohloff. The downside is you have to pay the majority of the cost upfront with a Rohloff.

safe riding,

Vik
www.thelazyrando.com
Safe riding,

Vik
www.thelazyrando.com

Hi

  • Guest
Re: Thorn Nomad S&S or the EXP R advice please.
« Reply #27 on: October 15, 2009, 06:34:17 pm »
Again thanks Vik

I feel like I'm becoming one of those newbies that ask a lot of questions that have been asked before but still ask, apologies if that's the case.

At the momment the sherpa seems to fit my needs the best as Thorns own literature claims it to be own of the best load carrying bikes they make. I noticed they do not offer a rohloff as an option is this because of the drop bars option or is it just the rohloffs suit a specific frame like the  ravens etc ?

julk

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 974
Re: Thorn Nomad S&S or the EXP R advice please.
« Reply #28 on: October 15, 2009, 07:14:47 pm »
Hi,
The raven bikes are constructed with Rohloff specific rear dropouts, eccentric bottle bracket shell and cable guides to suit the double cable run to the hub gears.
They can be specified with drops or straight bars to the owners preference, although getting the rohloff gear changer to work with drop bars requires a compromise or two in my opinion.

The Raven equivalent to the Sherpa is probably the Nomad.
Julian.

Hi

  • Guest
Re: Thorn Nomad S&S or the EXP R advice please.
« Reply #29 on: October 15, 2009, 08:43:01 pm »
Thanks Julk that's cleared up something for me