Author Topic: Surly troll custom-built, (advice needed) is it worth it?  (Read 13858 times)

Bill C

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Re: Surly troll custom-built, (advice needed) is it worth it?
« Reply #15 on: March 31, 2017, 04:51:45 pm »
Hi Steve

if your heart is set on a Troll, have you thought about getting the new version? i looked into buying a Troll frameset just after Xmas, they weren't in stock for months and the money burnt a hole in my pocket and i ended up with a barely used Klien attitude  ::)  I'll get a Troll one day but other bikes/framesets/builds pop up and i deviate,

the Troll on ebay has been listed before and didn't sell, i'd offer £1500 cash on collection, the seller would more than likely cancel the sale on ebay and save his fee's and if you pay cash he will also save paypal fee's,
that's what i'd do if i was buying/selling it (best be a bit cagey how you word your messages through ebay,  I asked when i bought the klien "when i view it could i pay cash and take the bike if it was what i wanted", the seller was more than happy to knock some of for cash, as he'd relisted it and just wanted shot of it)

if you get it keep in touch as i still do have a real hankering for one, and I'd be interested of your opinion


« Last Edit: March 31, 2017, 05:10:45 pm by Bill C »

bobs

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Re: Surly troll custom-built, (advice needed) is it worth it?
« Reply #16 on: March 31, 2017, 05:15:46 pm »
It's last years model.

stevenalleyy

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Re: Surly troll custom-built, (advice needed) is it worth it?
« Reply #17 on: March 31, 2017, 05:31:43 pm »
That's great Bill thanks! Well I just recently found a cheap ridgeback expedition 2017 with some extras for a lot less than RRP... I might strip the parts and put it on a troll frame if I find one! But like you said it's a hard one to find at the moment! £600 for the new frameset, i would kick myself if I paid that! But you are right if I want a troll that is probably the route I should take. So many good points here... How can I find the old listing? I would like to check out if there are discrepancies. Cheers again!

Bill C

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Re: Surly troll custom-built, (advice needed) is it worth it?
« Reply #18 on: March 31, 2017, 06:32:05 pm »
Steve
check the sellers completed listings for the old ad
£600 is a lot for the new Troll frameset but if it's what you NEED/WANT then sod it it has to be paid  ;) most of us understand need/want when it comes to bikes, it still leaves you £1050  on the ebay sellers asking price that you could spend on components
 i thought the Sherpa was pricey when i bought it, but it has been worth every penny









Danneaux

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Re: Surly troll custom-built, (advice needed) is it worth it?
« Reply #19 on: March 31, 2017, 07:50:14 pm »
Quote
if you get it keep in touch as i still do have a real hankering for one, and I'd be interested of your opinion
Yes, but off-Forum as the competitive Surly content is a bit much on the playground Thorn pays for. ;)

All the best,

Dan.

stevenalleyy

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Re: Surly troll custom-built, (advice needed) is it worth it?
« Reply #20 on: March 31, 2017, 08:09:24 pm »
Hahaha well that's very fair Dan! This forum is great btw. And I'm not jumping over the fence but for more sound advice what are some other great forums to check out?

Thanks for all your help Bill, I appreciate it immensely! And yes I'll keep in touch :)

lewis noble

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Re: Surly troll custom-built, (advice needed) is it worth it?
« Reply #21 on: March 31, 2017, 08:45:48 pm »
Steve, the more time I spend on my bike (a Sherpa, set up to a lightweight spec), the more I appreciate Thorn bikes, and no other Forum or supplier's website gives such a wealth of information based on experience.  I've been on the ctc forum in the past, and periodically now, but people tend to be dismissive of other points of view and sometimes just plain rude. 

That's my contribution anyway!!  and I also think that the most important part of any choice is fit and posture / comfort . . . Spec can be changed, and a wide variety of spec is suitable for a range of things anyway, but a bike that does not fit well is a pain in the  . . . . pretty well every part of the body . . . .

Lewis
 

Danneaux

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Re: Surly troll custom-built, (advice needed) is it worth it?
« Reply #22 on: March 31, 2017, 09:20:41 pm »
Quote
And I'm not jumping over the fence but for more sound advice what are some other great forums to check out?
Some good ones to check out...
Here's some good fora for researching bikes...be sure to use their search function to look up the brand/model you need to get what you need fastest:

• Crazy Guy On A Bike-CGOAB (touring accounts, forum, etc)
• MTBR.com (yes, even for expedition bikes...there's some overlap)
• BikeForums.net
• SingleTrackWorld.com
• Lonely Planet
• Adventure Cycling Association https://www.adventurecycling.org/ ...and... http://forums.adventurecycling.org/
• Forum, CyclingUK.com https://forum.cyclinguk.org
• Yet Another Cycling Forum - YACF https://yacf.co.uk/forum/index.php?board=80.0
• Forum, CTC forum.ctc.org.uk
• If you speak Dutch or are willing to translate, the Weraldfietser (world cyclist) Forum
http://www.wereldfietser.nl/phpbb/search.php?search_id=active_topics

This should get you going with some more helpful resources, Steve.

Best,

Dan.

RST Scout

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Re: Surly troll custom-built, (advice needed) is it worth it?
« Reply #23 on: April 02, 2017, 12:50:17 am »
Steve, the more time I spend on my bike (a Sherpa, set up to a lightweight spec), the more I appreciate Thorn bikes, and no other Forum or supplier's website gives such a wealth of information based on experience.  I've been on the ctc forum in the past, and periodically now, but people tend to be dismissive of other points of view and sometimes just plain rude. 

That's my contribution anyway!!  and I also think that the most important part of any choice is fit and posture / comfort . . . Spec can be changed, and a wide variety of spec is suitable for a range of things anyway, but a bike that does not fit well is a pain in the  . . . . pretty well every part of the body . . . .

Lewis

Re this forum - Amen to that Lewis.

Steven, hope you get the bike you want (get a Thorn, but then I'm biased  ;)) BTW, have you looked at the Thorn 'sale' bikes on SJS Cycles site? That's where I got mine from and with quite a hefty discount.

Janet
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Tiberius

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Re: Surly troll custom-built, (advice needed) is it worth it?
« Reply #24 on: April 03, 2017, 06:31:02 pm »
A couple of years ago, I really 'hummed and hahhed' over a Troll or a Raven/Nomad....that's how I ended up looking around this (brilliant) web site. At the time I had never even heard of a Rohloff and had never built a bike up myself. I basically wanted a bike that was as versitile and as near to indestructible as I could find.

I eventually ended up buying a Troll frameset and building it up with derailleurs and disc brakes. My thinking was that if I really liked it, then I could bung in a Rohloff at a later date and/or change the brakes if I didn't get on with the discs. I also liked the idea that it had horizontal drop outs for chain tension and not an eccentric bottom bracket. Rightly or wrongly I viewed the EBB as something that could be troublesome. Whichever way i looked at it, it seemed to me that horizontal dropouts would have less chance of 'failing' than an EBB. This perception may well be absolute rubbish, it's just the way that I saw it.

The build was dead easy....though I went through three sets of brakes to get the one's that I liked. Tektro to Avid BB7 to Shimano XT, the XT's are brilliant.....one finger stopping from any speed. I loved/love the bike so much that I soon slotted in a Rohloff.

As I see it. It's VERY unlikely that I will go back to derailleurs on this bike, so I DO wonder if I should have bought a Thorn Rohloff specific frame. Wheel in/out probably is more difficult on the Troll as opposed to a Thorn/Rohloff, but I still think it's marginal and I still like the idea of no EBB and the overall versitility of the Troll. It will take derailleurs/Rohloff/Single speed, any sort of brakes you like, it has braze ons for racks/mudguards and it's a strong as an Ox.

Serious offer.....I'm in the North East of England (North Yorkshire) If you can get over this way then you are welcome to a blast on my 'Trollhoff' anytime....(2015/Large/Black)..... ;)

Andre Jute

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Re: Surly troll custom-built, (advice needed) is it worth it?
« Reply #25 on: April 03, 2017, 11:15:41 pm »
I also liked the idea that it had horizontal drop outs for chain tension and not an eccentric bottom bracket. Rightly or wrongly I viewed the EBB as something that could be troublesome. Whichever way i looked at it, it seemed to me that horizontal dropouts would have less chance of 'failing' than an EBB. This perception may well be absolute rubbish, it's just the way that I saw it.

About ten-twelve years ago I too looked at Surly, the Karate Monkey, specifically because it was a known-strong frame that was not only Rohloff-capable, but had fittings for everything, very versatile. Such versatility is uncommon on American frames, where everything is an extra. But I didn't like the welded frame... To me, a proper bike is brazed together, either filleted or lugged. I'm an artist who's done a good deal of engineering design, but I don't mind admitting it is a strictly aesthetic prejudice, nothing to do with engineering: it's my money, and my proven taste, and I get what I want for it, or as close as dammit.

I agree with you on horizontal dropouts being superior in conception and use to eccentric bottom brackets.

However, the thing is you really buy the bike designer's entire philosophy, simply because you must. Even if you can afford to have a custom bike made, despite the promises of the custom bike builders to give you everything you want, you soon discover that essentially you're just buying more expensively into someone else's bike philosophy, sometimes hidden until it is too late; there is always something you want that you can't have.

It's Andy Blance's philosophy that makes his Thorn bikes so good as a whole (and behind that Robin Thorn's trading philosophy), regardless of which details you disagree with. I was originally attracted to reading his transparent screeds about the design and proving of his bikes because he knew all the best components that would last and last without going to stupidly priced boutique parts of uncertain engineering provenance.

Well, if you go to a guy because he exhibits a consistently applied value-for-money ethos, then efficient, cheap welding just comes in the package; it would be a betrayal of his principles to offer expensive fillet brazing.

The EBB probably comes from a road-racing background, and for the same reason as the rejection of lugs: weight. Now, I think all this road-racing-derived weightweenery on touring bikes is an infantile throwback, but it is where the best bikes, including touring bikes, had their origins. You can like it or you can lump it; it is just a fact of bicycles the consequences of which you have to live with. So, an EBB weighs quite a bit less than the hefty aluminium hangers associated with a sliding Rohloff fitment. For me, the fiddliness of the EBB, and it's risks of a slot being worn in it and the thing rotating at just the wrong time in the wrong place, is the key consideration against it. For someone from a roadie background, the distinct weight advantage of the EBB is the key consideration for it, and fiddly adjustment is irrelevant because roadies are used to it.

So you take the good (meaning 100% agreement with your prejudices!), and the otherwise justified, altogether, because on balance the designer is the one most in tune with what you want.
« Last Edit: April 04, 2017, 11:55:41 pm by Andre Jute »

stevenalleyy

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Re: Surly troll custom-built, (advice needed) is it worth it?
« Reply #26 on: April 04, 2017, 06:45:10 pm »
Hi Janet , Yeah I checked that out a few times. Not a lot of rage a this moment. I tried searching for a Sherpa that was for sale but couldnt find one! Do you know of any other markets that stock Thorns worth looking at?

No wonder! It's a hard choice to make tiberius. That's exactly what I'm looking for too! The troll seems to have it all but a weightlessness that nearly every other bike seems to have :D Sorry, what's an EBB? Have you had any problems with the rollhoff? It looks like a good setup tbh but i'd be very worried about something going wrong and having to send it to Germany!
The versatility and sturdiness takes the cake for sure. Haha! I thought that was an offer to buy the bike when I first read it! If I'm over your way sometime I'll probably be riding my own troll! If that's the case then It would be great if we both went out on a ride! :)

Hi Andre, your comment has been taken into serious consideration. Contemplating the reasons behind a bikes design and general mission of the brand gives us a great insight into what's to come when we finally take the plunge! It's given me a new way to look at the decision in front of me and hopefully will make that easier :D

steven

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Re: Surly troll custom-built, (advice needed) is it worth it?
« Reply #27 on: April 04, 2017, 09:59:05 pm »
I'm sorry Steve, I don't apart from this forum's "for sale". Guys, any ideas???
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Danneaux

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Re: Surly troll custom-built, (advice needed) is it worth it?
« Reply #28 on: April 04, 2017, 10:35:21 pm »
Sure! Do an eBay search for "Thorn bike" (no quotes). Keep an eye on Gumtree, too.

EDIT: Check the CTC forum for sale board, too.

Best,

Dan.

Tiberius

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Re: Surly troll custom-built, (advice needed) is it worth it?
« Reply #29 on: April 05, 2017, 06:57:45 am »
No wonder! It's a hard choice to make tiberius. That's exactly what I'm looking for too! The troll seems to have it all but a weightlessness that nearly every other bike seems to have :D Sorry, what's an EBB? Have you had any problems with the rollhoff? It looks like a good setup tbh but i'd be very worried about something going wrong and having to send it to Germany!
The versatility and sturdiness takes the cake for sure. Haha! I thought that was an offer to buy the bike when I first read it! If I'm over your way sometime I'll probably be riding my own troll! If that's the case then It would be great if we both went out on a ride! :)

EBB = Eccentric Bottom Bracket. It is how you tension the chain on Thorn Rohloff specific bikes. Do a search on this site, lots of info' around.

I've had zero issues with the Rohloff and don't expect to. It has become one of the few things in my life that I trust 100%. I can't recommend it highly enough and I would set off on a world tour with it tomorrow.

Andre Jute. A very interesting insight.