Thorn V Spa.

[jags]

So here's the thing,you all know by now I'm drooling to buy either the Thorn Audax or Club Tour frameset.
but the other day i came across the Spa Steel Tourer made from Reynolds 725 tubing for a hell of a lot less money than either of the Thorn's.

So would anyone have any idea why? Is the Thorn frames far Superior than the Spa frames .yip i need expert advice before i go spending my wifes money.

jags.

[rualexander]

There's also the Spa Audax in steel too, with carbon forks, again cheaper than Thorn, http://www.spacycles.co.uk/products.php?plid=m2b0s143p2828
No reason to suppose they are any better or worse than the Thorns. Designed I believe by a guy on the CTC forum (531colin) who used to work for Spa.
Fewer sizes than Thorn, and only one colour that I can see, so maybe some savings made there.

[peter jenkins]

Hi Jags,

I have no exposure to Spa Cycles, never having seen one in the flesh so to speak, but here's an expert (?) opinion:

http://www.ctc.org.uk/sites/default/files/file_public/201303064-reviews-year-round-road-bikes.pdf

Cheers,

pj

[Andybg]

I have seen them in the flesh and they look very nice to the untrained eye.

When you look at the Spa Steel Touring and the spec and accessories it comes with for under 950ukp it makes a similarly specced Thorn Club tour looked decidedly expensive. It would certainly be nice to see a direct test review of the two side by side.

Andy

[leftpoole]

So here's the thing,you all know by now I'm drooling to buy either the Thorn Audax or Club Tour frameset.
but the other day i came across the Spa Steel Tourer made from Reynolds 725 tubing for a hell of a lot less money than either of the Thorn's.

So would anyone have any idea why? Is the Thorn frames far Superior than the Spa frames .yip i need expert advice before i go spending my wifes money.

jags.

As a long time customer of both Thorn/SJSC and Spa....I can honestly say that having seen locally two Spa bikes (a Tour and an Audax) that Thorn look better. However I am biased and so I decided to check the differences. Thorn have a pump peg on rear left seat stay which I find very handy. Other than that, not so many sizes to choose from (possibly a good idea) not so many colours (Black only  or Titanium) and so I think Spa are better value based on these differences. I have and always will believe that Thorn are too highly priced, but of course Spa do not have such elaborate advertising via the online brochures, nor so many mouths to feed (Staff etc) nor a designers trips abroad every Winter to 'test' new ideas......
I am tempted by a Spa frameset myself but every time I go to click the sites payment button (Spa Cycles) I refrain. Why you might ask? Answer because I know deep down that I would miss direct fit mudguards, a steel fork and the pump peg.
It is a dilemma and I think it is because I already own good bikes. I consider (in my mind only) the Spa bike to be not quite so good, but it is a great deal less expensive.
jags--if you buy a Spa bike in my opinion the Audax would be a great bike for you, or the Tourer?
One last mention, the Spa frameset decals are stuck on top of the paintwork by heat gun, not under lacquer.
It is difficult but the Spa offering is really a decent frameset I am certain as the two I see locally do look good.
jags I guess that you are now even more confused?
By the way, the CTC report by Chris Juden, I personally take his reviews with a pinch of salt. He has a viewpoint but I feel that he looks down his nose at the cheaper end of the market and has years of his opinion and seems not to have time for others opinions. (in my opinion of course!
Best regards,
John

[jags]

See the thing about bike tests you cant judge a bike in a day you need to have it for at least 6 months of riding.when i first bought the sherpa i hated it like riding a tank,but i was coming from riding a full on carbon lightweight bike so i was i compairing the two which was very unfair.but yeah after 6 months or so i realized this sherpa was a lovely bike still didnt like the way it climbed but other than that is done what its supposed to do with nobs on.
to be honest at this time the spa tourer wins hands down, the club tour might be a great bike but it's certainly not hundreds of pounds better,did andy blance not say that reynolds 725 tubing was the way to go on a touring bike (maybe not but someone did)
anyway i still have time to cocider which frame to buy no panic just yet.

jags

[Swislon]

Hi jags,

Thorn Club Tour Frame, fork, headset and seat post is £599 (cheapest fork). Spa steel tourer frame, fork and headset (not fitted) is £315.
Is it worth an extra £284?
Good question.

I live in Harrogate home of Spa and I personally know Colin who designed the Spa frames.
I have ridden both the Spa Tourer and the Spa Audax but the titanium versions.
Colin rides with my club "Wheel Easy" and a lot of members have Spa Titanium Audax bikes and think they are fantastic, very comfortable and responsive.
They are an enormous success.

The Tourer and the Audax are quite different bikes so make sure you match your requirements with the right bike. Just like the Thorn Audax and Club Tour are quite different.

I really liked the ride of the Spa Tourer and it was on my short list. It would also have made sense for me to take a bike in my home town for the after sales support. However I have ordered a Thorn new Club Tour ( it is actually ready but I am going on holiday on Thursday so don't want it until I return!).
Why not the Spa?
As always the "devil" is in the details.

I want steel. The Spa steel tourer doesn't come in my size of 60cms
The titanium spa is not "pretty" and is big and chunky.
Colin is a very experienced cyclist, tourer, roughstuff rider and has been in the cycle trade for many years but is new to bike design.
I think their manufacturer is based in China and will be newish to Spa
I trust Colin but he is retired now & Spa's customer services can be eccentric (best word I can think of!)
I feel the frames have been built to a price (not detracting from the design here)

The Thorn is designed by an experienced cycle tourer with years of bike design experience
There will be a longstanding relationship with the manufacturer (Taiwanese I think)
The frames are frame sealed inside and well prepped.
The Thorn seems to oose quality
I would like to try a rear disc brake
I wanted the new 853 fork (tried one and fell in love)
There are very few Thorns around these parts

I don't have the same price considerations as your good self Jags, having sold a couple of bikes last year. However I wouldn't want to buy any bike unless I had had a good ride on one. Spa will let you borrow any bike for a good half day but you would have to come over here to do it. Otherwise it is quite a risk even if it is cheaper.
Thorns policy is no risk. 14 days for a complete bike or 100 days for the frame and fork if you build it up yourself or by LBS.

I bet this hasn't helped much. My head said Spa Ti Tourer but my heart won and I sincerely hope it wont be broken when I meet her for the first time!!

Steve

[jags]

Steve thanks for that,actually i did see the Spa TI bike because bikepacker stayed here with me and he was on his  spanking new  spa ti bike he since changed to a  bob jackson.
i thought the Ti looks dull no idea about ride quality as it was way to big for me.
but yeah i dont want to buy a frame  just because its cheaper i do like quality and dont mind paying extra for it. yeah the thorn has a bit more street cred for sure but does it ride any better thats the big question.

jags

[Andybg]

Great summary Steve and I am sure soon you will be in a good position to put them head to head and give us all a good comparison between the two.

I currently have my heart set on a R&B Club Tour with the 853 fork and any help on justifying the price would be much appreciated.

Andy

[jags]

fork is very expensive i did look at this my self i think i would be going carbon as i've no intentions using front panniers.

[Swislon]

Jags, I don't think there is carbon fork option for the Club Tour.
It sounds to me the Audax is the bike for you but it does depend on tyre size choice you are looking for.

Will the Thorn Audax ride better than the Spa Audax?
Only you would be able to answer that after you have tried both bikes. No one else can decide that for you.

All the people I know (except one, who sold his very quickly for another Rohloff) love how their Spa Titanium Audax ride. They don't like the looks though!
I know no one with the Spa Steel Audax yet though.

I'd be careful about the steel Spa Audax until there are more owners and reviews. They have used Reynolds 725 tubes which isn't normal for an Audax bike.
It seems 631 or 853 is more common on good Audax bikes.

Steve

[honesty]

One thing to note that is quite important is the rear spacing.

Thorn-
Audax 132.5mm OLN
CT 135mm OLN

Spa-
Audax 130mm OLN
Tourer 132.5mm OLN

On the Spa audax this will limit to road hubs.

[6527richardm]

For what it is worth i bought a a Spa Ti Audax bike and never really took to it.

I did not like the ride and it felt lifeless also whilst I know it would not effect the ride quality the finish was dull and un-interesting. In the end I sold it and bought a Bob Jackson frame and i am much happier with it. I also used to have a Raven Tour which I enjoyed riding but eventually sold as it was overkill for what I wanted it for but it was definitely the most comfortable bike I have ridden.

At times I still wish I had kept the RT but needs must.

At some point will probably join the Torn club again but with a Club Tour.

Hope this helps.

[jags]

Thanks again lads,yeah i think it will be a touring bike i go for.i'm not changing my tent (if i tell the wife i need a new tent say no more) anyway it weighs 3kg not sure what my new ortlieb classic will weigh when full,but yeah i dont want to overload a shiny new audax ,i know the tour would carry much more so would make sense me thinks to go for a touring bike.
everything on my raleigh is new so no worries there.but looks like i will be buying new canti or V-breakes other than that i'm ready to roll.
yeah the frame is the major  factor got to get this right first time no second chance i'm afraid.

thanks lads

jags.
just seen your post richard thanks.

[Danneaux]

i'm not changing my tent (if i tell the wife i need a new tent say no more) Angry Grin Grin anyway it weighs 3kg

A 3kg tent? In my opinion, this tips the scales more firmly in the direction of a touring bike rather than Audax.

Lots to think about, Anto.

Best,

Dan.