Help, Opinions Wanted

[moodymac]

I have determined that the Club Tour is the bike for me.  My first choice was the Raven Tour.  However, how I have managed to turn a 1299 pound bike into almost 2000 pds is scary.  Sorry for the pound thing but I don't appear to have its' symbol on my laptop.

The bike will be used as an all rounder, with touring being most in mind.  No around the world stuff   but perhaps some extensive (a few months at most) touring of U.S. and Canada (Mexico?).  It will be my only bike.  Mostly tarmac some dirt and a few trails.

The below list contains items, cost and some comments/questions.  Feel free to comment on any items you wish, and don't worry about my feelings as I am seeking solid information.  I will have to live (and probably die) with this bike.



Club Tour MK4                                                                          1299 pounds

Comfort Bar                                                                                   0

Front Fork (#6 Super Tour, V Brake)                                                0

30 speed 26-36-48, 11-36 cassette                                                  0
    (a 24-36-44 seems more appropriate for my 65 years, however
      I am not sure they will do this?)

Spokes (extra)                                                                                5

36 hole Hope rear disk hub                                                           137
   (the reviews I read on the Shimano hubs scared me)

36 hole Hope front hub                                                                  60

36 hole DT Swiss TK 540 rims                                                        73
   (think I heard a discouraging word from Andre about the Mavic
    rims)

Dureme 700x35 tires                                                                     50

SKS P45 mudguards                                                                        0

Straight bar Rapid Fire Shifter specs.                                                0
   (will this fit a comfort bar?)

Front V and rear mechanical disk brakes                                          71

San Marcos Rolls saddle                                                                  25

Pedals                                                                                            50

Front and rear Thorn carriers                                                          150
   (thinking overly strong for my use, but better than maybe just
    right)

Bottle cages (3)                                                                              21

                                                                             Total             1941 pounds
                                                                             Minus VAT     1552
                                                                             Price U.S.      2539 dollars  (a new roof)

Dan, if you read this any info on shipping cost to US would be greatly appreciated.


Tom

[Danneaux]

Dan, if you read this any info on shipping cost to US would be greatly appreciated.

Hi Tom!

I'll be in touch soon with specifics. The press of business has me tied-up today, but will get to you. If I forget, please PM me.

First suggestion: When buying, if possible use a credit card that does not have conversion fees for foreign currencies. That can save as much as USD$76-$85 alone. A quick call to the customer service number on the reverse of your card will result in answers for your card.

Meantime, this thread related to my order of Sherpa should help: http://www.thorncycles.co.uk/forums/index.php?topic=3694.msg15739#msg15739 I would suggest *not* prepaying the total in advance as I chose to do to lock-in a price at a time of currency volatility. Do the deposit thing and then pay the balance when done. Nothing "bad" happened with my prepay, I just think the conventional approach is better.

Sounds like a wonderful spec overall for your new bike, and should prove a lovely bike for your needs. It will make a classic tourer with which I think you'll be very happy. Umm...let's see, real quick....oh! Before I bought Sherpa, I bought a Thorn Low-Loader front rack and fitted it to my Miyata 1000LT, a touring bike with 700C wheels. The results were stellar; very happy. It gave me confidence in the bike to come, figuring if the rack was that good, Thorn's bikes had to be everything everyone said they were. Thorn's back rack proved superb for my needs as well, and in my tests was more rigid than my Surly Nice Rack (Rear) and a later Tubus Logo Evo, thanks in part to the 6mm mount adapters on the Nomad, but the rack itself still worked nicely and was very rigid while briefly mounted on Sherpa before moving on to the Nomad.

More later,

Dan.

P.S.

Sorry for the pound thing but I don't appear to have its' symbol on my laptop.

For a Windows PC, go here: Start> All Programs> Accessories> System Tools> Character Map. Fifth page, third row from the bottom you'll find ?. € lives there as well, and you'll have a ready source of ammo 'cos there's plenty of bullets (•).

[moodymac]

Thanks Dan,

Will be leaving Canada for Texas tomorrow, if I have not heard from you after arrival, will PM.


Tom

[Danneaux]

Hi Tom!

'Found the particulars much more quickly than I thought, so here they are. From: http://www.thorncycles.co.uk/forums/index.php?topic=3694.msg18181#msg18181

I paid for my bike in full when I placed my order, to lock-in the price against fluctuations in the exchange rate (the US congress was deadlocked over a budget-funding bill at the time and the dollar was falling against the pound). In retrospect, I would not do this again. With the options selected and the exchange rate at the time, my Sherpa and shipping totaled USD$2,610.83. Of that, shipping accounted for USD$627 at the exchange rate in effect then. The foreign transaction fee added USD$78.32. The Tuffnells Customs Duty Invoice totaled USD$139.73, including a USD$15 handling service fee for TNT to clear and confirm the shipment with US Customs and another USD$15 whose code I cannot determine. So, for those who are curious, it cost USD$845.05 beyond the base price of the bike to get it to my front door. Total for everything, Sherpa delivered and with all debts settled was USD$2828.88.

Remember, these figures were based on the price of Sherpa at the time (2010), and on the relative currency valuations at time of payment as well. The figures won't be the same today, but this should give you a guide.

Be sure to keep all receipts and take screen shots for anything you order online so if there is a problem with Customs you can show what you expected to pay. I'm sure all will go well. I sweat bullets awaiting the bike. It went through four carriers in all, as I recall, finally showing up via UPS at the front door. Thorn/SJS Cycles has nothing to do with the carrier handoffs; this was the result of delivery agreements between the original shipper and delivery at my location in the US' Pacific Northwest.

Hope this helps. Exciting days, for sure, and all good wishes your way. Shout out if there's anything we can do to help.

All the best,

Dan.

[Danneaux]

Tom,

Another opinion (I seem to be full of them but so is everyone else, so weigh as you wish for your own needs): As for gearing, I ran 44/32/22 and 12-36 (9-sp at the time) on Sherpa and was very happy with it. Spared my frangible knees on loaded climbs and the high was more than enough for me given I spin and that makes up for low gears speedwise.

Best,

Dan.

[John Saxby]

Hi there Tom,

The Club Tour has a lot of good reviews on this Forum -- nice bike, and enjoy!

A couple of notes:  

The £ thing:  On my Mac, it's Option + 3

On ratios:  

30 speed 26-36-48, 11-36 cassette (a 24-36-44 seems more appropriate for my 65 years...)

We're of a similar age and on my current touring bike I have a 24-36-48 front triple, mated to a 12 - 36 cogset at the rear via a 9-spd chain. Both F & R derailleurs are Deore. I use 700c wheels, and have been running 700 x 32 Vittoria Randonneur Pro (foldable) tires.  This setup gives me a lowest gear-inch ratio of 18.3, which I find is pretty much OK, but there have been a few occasions where I would have liked a lower cog. (E.g., climbing a grade in the 14-15% range on a loaded bike.) So, on my Thorn Raven-with-Rohloff now a-building, I will use a 38 x 17 setup, giving me a couple of gears below the 18.3 on my current bike.  

Following Dan's reference to his 22-32-44, suggest you consider a 24T small chainring, or even a 22T, depending on the hills you expect to meet and/or loads you expect to carry. (To use a specific example: The Gaspé Peninsula in Quebec is a wonderful spot for cycling.  I would enjoy it much more with a 22T small ring than with a 24T or a 26T, however.)  I find that the 36T is *very* useful. When I ride unloaded, I usually spend about 90% of my time on that ring, and loaded, maybe 20%, depending of course on the terrain.  With my current setup, my base gear is the 6th or 7th cog (unloaded) or the 5th cog loaded.  So, if it were my bike, I'd use a 36T middle ring rather than the 32T or even a 34.   When my bike is loaded, BTW, I rarely if ever use the big 48T ring.

Suggest also you use higher-end Shimano derailleurs than the standard Deore, perhaps XTs.

Hope this is helpful, Tom, and good luck! Safe journey back to Texas.

[moodymac]

Thanks Dan,

I found it...£££ .

I think I will go for the 22 inner ring and contemplate the middle one more.  I got a lot out of the post you referenced.  Especially the one inferring you could buy in the States due to the choices.  I liked your answer because that is the way I feel regarding the people on this forum and at Thorn.  I also got the feeling that U.S. builders still incorporate too much racing paraphernalia and ideas into their touring schemes.  Any more ideas, feel free.

Tom

[Chris M]

Straight bar Rapid Fire Shifter specs.                                                0
   (will this fit a comfort bar?)


Hi Tom

On my old bike I used Rapid Fire Shifters on an NC-17 Trekking Pro Bar:

http://www.nc-17.de/en/products/handlebars/trek-bar-pro-en/

It looks very similar to a Thorn Comfort Bar so would expect them to fit ok.

Another option regarding the complete bike would be to buy the frame and build it yourself from components sourced closer to home. You'd be in control of the complete spec that way and possibly save money.

For what it's worth; I built up my CT with DT Swiss TK540's ( made by Dave Hunt at DCR) 36H Rear and 32H Front, these were paired with XT Hubs and Sapim Race spokes with Sapim Strong on the drive side, early days yet but so far I'm more than happy with them.

Chris

(Can't get the quote option to work properly, sorry)

[moodymac]

Thanks John,

Will definitely look into the XT derailleurs.  The brochure that Thorn has post is not the definitive one yet.  So I have probably overlooked some things.  Anything else you see, please mention.

Just to get to my house from any direction there is this hill.  A long 8-9% grade and several shorter ones that are 12-20%.  I am just lucky to be living on the only hill in town!  The cassette's gearing is quite broad,  I am going to have to give that middle chain ring some thought.  I have a feeling that you are a much stronger cyclist than me.  The Vittoria Randonneur tires have always peaked my interest and if Thorn sold them they would be my choice.

By the way, found your name in CGOAB just before retiring last night.  Will have to dig around in there to see what you have written.  From the occasional comments I have read on this forum, you must be quite an accomplished cyclist.  Any other thoughts or opinions on my post would be greatly appreciated.


Tom

[moodymac]

Chris,

Thanks for the heads up on the Rapid Fire Shifter and Comfort bar.

While being fairly mechanically inclined, and having way too many tools (wife's opinion), I just don't have the time right now.  I am on the road quite a bit now (have to pay for this bike!) and my honey do list is growing while I type.  When I am running hard, the honey do list takes more time to do than I have at home.  Hopefully this will slow down soon.  In the meantime the bike can be delivered and all I will have to do is assemble it and listen to a few tsc, tsc's coming from my beautiful wife.

Like what you said about the DT Swiss rims.  My thinking was with these, the Hope hub, and the rear disk brake that wheel should last a very long time.

Thanks again and let me know about the rims.


Tom

[Relayer]

Like what you said about the DT Swiss rims.  My thinking was with these, the Hope hub, and the rear disk brake that wheel should last a very long time.

Hi Tom

I got a pair of wheels in 2013 with Hope hubs and DT Swiss rims, they are very strong and lightweight, I don't think you can go wrong with that combination.

The Hope hubs do make a ratchety noise when coasting which some people apparently don't like, personally I think it is the beautiful noise of quality.

Exciting times for you Tom, enjoy.
Jim

[moodymac]

Hi Jim,

Thanks for the info.  I had heard about the noise.  I am hard of hearing anyway!

Love the avatar.


Tom

[John Saxby]

Thanks, Tom, for your kind words.  Not too sure how "accomplished" a cyclist I am, but I love life on 2 wheels & will endorse your judgment any day.  :-)

Just to get to my house from any direction there is this hill.  A long 8-9% grade and several shorter ones that are 12-20%.  I am just lucky to be living on the only hill in town!

   Wow -- lots of work there!  The 22T small ring would certainly help with those, as well as the 36T low cog at the back.

As I read your list of specs, Tom, it seems well-considered, and there's good advice already on your thread.  So, not sure I have much to add beside my comments on the ratios and the tires.  

Perhaps an additional thought on the Vittorias:  I've used the 700 x 32s for the past two-plus years (three summers) and like them a lot.  If I were to continue using my current bike for loaded touring, I'd probably go with 700 x 35s or 37s, partly for more comfort on rough tarmac, and partly to deal with gravel roads.

Cheers,

J.

[moodymac]

Hi John,

Thanks again for the comments.

My thoughts on the 35s were due to local road conditions (concrete slab, poor asphalt, tar and chip, and even bricks).  That and the nephew likes to ride dirt on occasion.  I would have gone for 37s, however the pump fittings on the frame are too close to the tire to allow them and the pump.  I first became interested in the Vittorias through a post be either Pete, or el padrone(?).  Not only had he obtained great milage, he posted a photo of a fantastic screw protruding from one (and no flat!).  They will be my second set of tires.


Tom

[Andre Jute]

36 hole DT Swiss TK 540 rims                                                        73
   (think I heard a discouraging word from Andre about the Mavic
    rims)

On another forum I'm just now engaged in correspondence with James Stewart of Melbourne, who writes:

***
Speaking of wearing off at the first application of the brakes, I have
finally damaged one of my two Mavic OpenPro Ceramic rims.  I suspect the
real damage occurred a few months ago when I had a minor altercation
with a car driver and his car, that left my front wheel a little
buckled, but I managed to true it up.  Upon inspection on Saturday I
noticed a good crack and piece separating from around one of the spoke
holes.

I think this rim made up the rear wheel of a pair I bought some 12+
years ago.  It's probably seen more abuse than the original front that
is now a part of my SP dynamo front wheel.

Needless to say, the ceramic braking surface is *still* just dandy.  No
appreciable wear to speak of, after a good 100,000+km.

Such a shame no other rim manufacturer has done it and Mavic stopped
doing it.  If I could buy another pair of these rims I would in a heart
beat.  I don't think Mavic's current Exalith coating is as good, from
what I've read, nor is it available on rims not built into Mavic wheels.
***

That's contrary evidence from a reliable, high mileage cyclist.

All the same, DT Swiss strike me as a safer choice, even if you never intend leaving the tarmac. Attitude and outlook are important determinants of engineering outcomes, and the Mavic outlook is too closely focused on racing for my liking. Remind me on a dull day, when your bike is built, to tell the story of a supposedly sybaritic Trek for the middle-aged hedonist I once bought, and how Trek's designer, because of the company ethos, bolloxed it from the beginning.

If you can fit wider mudguards, you should. 5mm overhang per side is marginal, even with properly shaped mudguards like the SKS P series. Also, some of those P series have a choice of lengths: make sure you get the longer one, not the short "sports" version. You'll understand why I seem to fixate on a couple of minor details when the first heavy rains fall. At our age you don't want to magnify the miseries of the wet by having water sprayed on your shins, and especially on your expensive drivetrain. Make sure the mudguards have SKS mud flaps, little worthless-appearing things, but they do direct the water downwards. Thorn may just fit them and sink the charge in the general price, or you may have to order them. They're customized to the P series, so getting them later will cost plenty in carriage and nuisance.

[I see in a message that crossed with this one that you've considered this already, but I'll leave it as general comment for others.] Also, is 35mm the widest tyre you can fit, or is it a compromise with some hoped-for "speed"? I am very impressed with the benefits of fitting the widest tyres your bike will take, since I switched to low pressure balloons a few years ago. You can always slim down too much bike and sell the surplus parts on, but building up not enough bike is more difficult and expensive.