Knee problems and pedals

[phopwood]

Hi,

I have been riding Shimarno SPD pedals since the dawn of time (mid 90's) I have always got a long with them,  but recently I have been having a little constant nagging knee pain.  I use SPD's on both my Thorn and my Brompton and I like the clipped in feel.  I am guessing that it is me wearing out.

I have spent a bit of time over the last 2 months playing with the position of the cleats, with no real increased benefit.  Back when the pain started I replaced my cleats on both my pairs of shoes, both pairs of shoes are less then 2 years old.  So I know it is not the cleats causing the problem.

The pain is not sharp when pedaling but a dull pain only on the left hand knee. I just feel like i need a little lateral float.

For my commute I walk on to the platform at one station and off the platform at Euston in london and this can be a long walk, plus getting in to the office.

So I would like to know if any of you have any experience of pedal cleat combinations that would give me some additional lateral float and allow the cleat to be hidden and walkable like the SPD cleats.  I want to keep my MTB shoes, I don't want to go down the road shoe route.

All the best.

Peter

[jags]

have you tried  without clipping into pedals.

[phopwood]

have you tried  without clipping into pedals.

Jags,

Yes I did for a few weeks back in the late summer and the pain went away.  I just used standard flat pedals.

Peter

[cycling4chapatis]

Initially had knee problems with my SPD pedal/ cleat combo, but after stopping to pull on the pedals like an animal it got better real quick. While pulling gives you a lot more power (or so it feels), you're only trying to lift your leg's weight with the pull motion, not using it for additional momentum. Read somewhere to "think of circles" as you're pedaling.

Another thing I noticed was temperature. My knees get unhappy when it's cold (even when I'm feeling cosy), i.e. when <10 degrees C and (knee) skin exposed. Wear 3/4 bike shorts most of the year for that reason.

And yet another SPD pedal/ cleat thing: the unclipping jerk can get to your knees too. Apart from having tension down (I've got mine on minimum, makes traffic lights way less stressful and have NEVER accidentally unclipped) a few drops of chain lube on the spring/ moving parts of the pedal work wonders.

[jags]

Peter i had shimano pedals on my sherpa flat one side didn't have any problem,have to say if it were me then i would be thinking of flat pedals with maybe those power strap no point in suffering.

[Danneaux]

Peter,

Speaking as someone with frangible knees, great sympathy and empathy your way for the knee pain. Makes me shudder just to think of it.

I had a bout of this last summer when trialing various SPD pedals ( http://www.thorncycles.co.uk/forums/index.php?topic=6943.0 ). For me, the problem was release tension that was too strong for me, even when dialed to the minimum. Solution was a set of Shimano T400 Click'r pedals that have about 50% the usual spring tension -- also set to minimum tension -- with multi-release cleats on Shimano MO88 shoes. I tried many combinations before I found something that would work for me.

Doesn't sound like your problem.

Apart from the spring-tension issue, I found the multi-release SPD cleats also allowed me a bit more float.

If you've got pain *while* pedaling, there may be something else going on or something has changed. Perhaps those shoes and insoles that have simply worn till they are no longer as supportive. I use a small foam wedge at the inside edge of the heel to set my ankles slightly straighter; did wonders for eliminating knee pain as well. Are the springs lubed to allow free float? If the springs/pedal cleats are too tight, that can restrict movement.

Hmm. Any change in saddle, saddle height, or fore-aft positioning?

Best,

Dan.

[phopwood]

Thanks all four your replies so far.

Dan

I had a bout of this last summer when trialing various SPD pedals ( http://www.thorncycles.co.uk/forums/index.php?topic=6943.0 ). For me, the problem was release tension that was too strong for me, even when dialed to the minimum. Solution was a set of Shimano T400 Click'r pedals that have about 50% the usual spring tension -- also set to minimum tension -- with multi-release cleats on Shimano MO88 shoes. I tried many combinations before I found something that would work for me

I will read through the other link, just for info I use multi release cleats and always have done, my spring tension is set to min and has been for the last 10 years.  Pedal spring tension, you may be on to something here I will have a play I have some old platform SPD pedals that may be lighter.

Jags,

Peter i had shimano pedals on my sherpa flat one side didn't have any problem,have to say if it were me then i would be thinking of flat pedals with maybe those power strap no point in suffering. Cry.

I may try flats for a while bit I am reluctant to go away from clips just yet.

All the best.

Pieter.

[il padrone]

Time pedals, Eggbeaters, and Speedplays all give a much greater degree of easy float than SPDs. I have been very happy with my Times but never really had knee strain issues witht the SPDs.

[David Simpson]

Any chance that the cleat on one of your shoes has rotated slightly?  I had a problem where a screw holding the cleat on one shoe had come a bit loose, and the cleat had rotated a bit, causing my foot to be at a different angle than what I wanted.  I first felt the problem in my knee.  When I put the cleat back to where it should be, everything was fine again.

Of course, if you are having pain in both knees, then a rotated cleat is most likely not the problem.

- Dave

[in4]

Leaving aside the overt flirting between the two participants I found this 'How to' video quite informative and it might help with regard to your knee/pedal problems. A reply from someone at Trek UK disagrees with a point mentioned. That said its, she/he (delete as appropriate!) is a good view. Here's the link: http://www.theguardian.com/environment/bike-blog/video/2013/jul/10/how-to-set-up-bicycle-pro-video

[phopwood]

I have just been to the LBS and purchased some strapless toeclips, just so I can go back to basics for a few rides and see if the pain goes away.  This will keep my feet from sliding forward and allow my feet to sit where they want to be.

I have not used toe clips since before I got my first set of SPD's back in 1995 so I do not want to be strapped on to my pedals, just in case I can't get out in a rush.

I am going to do this one step at a time and see where I end up.

I have had a look at time and speedplay on the web and they both offer more lateral float, but I want to be sure before I may the purchase, whatever I do I need to be able to walk in the shoes.

Any chance that the cleat on one of your shoes has rotated slightly?  I had a problem where a screw holding the cleat on one shoe had come a bit loose, and the cleat had rotated a bit, causing my foot to be at a different angle than what I wanted.  I first felt the problem in my knee.  When I put the cleat back to where it should be, everything was fine again.

Of course, if you are having pain in both knees, then a rotated cleat is most likely not the problem.

Yep I checked this at first and the cleat appears to be in the same position as the other side.

Leaving aside the overt flirting between the two participants I found this 'How to' video quite informative and it might help with regard to your knee/pedal problems. A reply from someone at Trek UK disagrees with a point mentioned. That said its, she/he (delete as appropriate!) is a good view. Here's the link: http://www.theguardian.com/environment/bike-blog/video/2013/jul/10/how-to-set-up-bicycle-pro-video

I will have a look and see if it helps.

All the best.

Peter

[rualexander]

Just a quick reminder, plenty of knee problems and pains are completely unrelated to pedal type or design. But I guess its worth a try changing them anyway.

[phopwood]

All,

I have spent a few days with no SPD just using flat pedals and strapless clips, this has worked surprisingly well, and the pain has gone.  But I don't feel as in control as I do when clipped in, but I am sure over time I could get used to it.

So I looked at Dan suggestion of pedals with less spring tension, so I dug out my old red DX platform SPD pedals, put these on and went for a quick 10 miles, came back with no pain.  So I am going to have  a very close look at the original SPD's I was using, I will start will a good clean and some lube.

All the best.

Peter.

[jags]

Great peter glad you got sorted.you know this could just be a one off problem..as in nothing to do with pedals more a nerve  pain.there was a time i went through the wars with a burning sensation in both feet really painfull,then one day it just stopped no idea why it came and it went just like that,as tommy cooper would say. .
sure hope it's sorted never to return.

[Danneaux]

Thanks so much for the followup Peter. If one person expresses a problem, its a sure thing others have the same, so a result is always helpful to the readers who may not post.

I do hope things are fully sorted wrt that awful knee pain, and you'll have a good result going forward. You surely did all the right things in *not* riding much till you could get the problem isolated and addressed. So often, minor injuries become major ones if one persists.

Please let us know how how you come out long-term; it sounds like you're on the right path for sure.

All the best,

Dan.