Author Topic: Bike build order.  (Read 7571 times)

Chris M

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Bike build order.
« on: December 08, 2013, 01:18:24 pm »
Hello All,

I need some advice.

I've delayed building up my new Club Tour frame due to time restraints; working 66 hours a week leaves little time to carry out my first bike build. As I will be taking some parts from my current bike I didn't want to be left without a bike for my daily commute. With Xmas approaching, I'll have 2 weeks off work to finally get the bike up and running (hopefully). Having searched on Google and seen many different opinions, I was wondering what the preferred order was to build the bike up.

I was thinking;

Seat post & saddle. So I can clamp it into my stand.
Waxoyl frame & forks.
Apply frame protection film.
Paint bottom bracket shell. (Bare metal on the outer edges from having the shell faced for Hollowtech BB)
Forks and V brakes. (Will probably leave the steerer uncut until I'm happy with the height of the handlebars)
Handlebars, shifters & brake levers.
Wheels & cassette.
Chainset, front & rear mech.
Chain.
Brake and gear cables.
Mudguards.
Racks.

I'd be grateful to hear any opinions regarding the above order, or put me right if I've made some obvious mistakes (more than likely).

Many thanks.

Chris

triaesthete

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Re: Bike build order.
« Reply #1 on: December 08, 2013, 03:15:07 pm »

Ah Chris you seek bicycle Feng shui. Master Dan will be along shortly.

For myself I prefer the principle of self organisation: a process where some form of global order or coordination arises out of the local interactions between the components of an initially disordered system. This process is spontaneous: it is not directed or controlled by any agent or subsystem inside or outside of the system; however, the laws followed by the process and its initial conditions may have been chosen or caused by an agent. It is often triggered by random fluctuations that are amplified by positive feedback. The resulting organization is wholly decentralized or distributed over all the components of the system. As such it is typically very robust and able to survive and self-repair substantial damage or perturbations. In chaos theory it is discussed in terms of islands of predictability in a sea of chaotic unpredictability.

Self-organization occurs in a variety of physical, chemical, biological, social and cognitive systems. Common examples are crystallization, the emergence of convection patterns in a liquid heated from below, chemical oscillators, swarming in groups of animals, and the way neural networks learn to recognize complex patterns of bicycle assembly.  (From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia)(sort of  ;)).

Happy holidays
Ian


Chris M

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Re: Bike build order.
« Reply #2 on: December 08, 2013, 04:22:07 pm »
 Thanks Ian, I suppose I have been overthinking it a bit.  ???

leftpoole

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Re: Bike build order.
« Reply #3 on: December 08, 2013, 04:32:35 pm »
Seatpost,
Wheels/mudguards/remove wheels fix mudguards
wheels back in/cut stays
rear mech/chainset/front mech
forks/cut to length/bars/cables and shifters
saddle/pedals
set up all mechs and cables
ride!
Dan , If (!) you are reading this..............
All the best,
John

jags

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Re: Bike build order.
« Reply #4 on: December 08, 2013, 04:42:44 pm »
What was that you said Ian. ;D

jags

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Re: Bike build order.
« Reply #5 on: December 08, 2013, 04:46:14 pm »
everyone has there own way of building up the perfect bike.i get my son to do it.
pity he's in newzeland at the moment,so i might struggle a wee bit if i manage to buy new frame.

Chris M

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Re: Bike build order.
« Reply #6 on: December 08, 2013, 05:18:38 pm »
Cheers jags

jags

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Re: Bike build order.
« Reply #7 on: December 08, 2013, 05:58:22 pm »
your welcome Chris ;D ;D
I'm after a frame on ebay if i manage to get it(i very much doubt it though) that's the cry over. ::)
i will build it up myself, would much rather my son do it as he's a perfectionest  everything has to be spot on but as i said he's in foreign lands so it could be down to me.
so I'll just strip everything off the Raleigh and transfair it to thorn as I'm taking thing off.
you would think at this stage that our man Dan would do a nice video on the proper way to build a frame up from scratch.just saying. ;)

mickeg

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Re: Bike build order.
« Reply #8 on: December 08, 2013, 06:47:28 pm »
Frame and fork prep that involves any liquids that need to dry, do that first.  This way the liquids have dried by the time you start assembly if you have other tasks like wheel building.

Several years ago I knew that I would be stuck in bed for a while after foot surgery.  I was looking for time consuming tasks that I could do without using my legs.  I was building up a bike and I saved my hubs and spokes and rims for that period of time to lace up.  Lacing and truing wheels can take as much time as installing everything onto the frame.  Since I am a slow and careful wheel builder, it actually takes me more time than bolting everything onto the frame.

If you need to buy bits like a new chain, bolts for water bottle cages, etc., you can do that before you start your time off from work.  Check your supply of grease in case you need it to re-grease anything in your build, like maybe hubs.  I use Blue Loctite on all rack bolts, if you don't have any you may want to get it.

Chris M

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Re: Bike build order.
« Reply #9 on: December 08, 2013, 07:18:41 pm »
Thanks mickeg. That makes sense, I can apply the waxoyl next weekend, hopefully a week will be long enough to allow it to dry??
 I'm pretty sure I have all the parts needed but the blue loctite is not something I had considered for the rack, next stop will be ebay or Amazon to get some ordered.
I took the easy option with the wheels and had some built by David Hunt at DCR wheels; DT Swiss TK540's on XT hubs. Wheel building is a bit above my capabilities at the moment, any slight buckles are usually dealt with by the lbs. I really should try to get to grips with this side of maintenance.

The only parts I haven't got that I'm still not sure about are bar ends to use on the inside of the grips either side of the stem, I'll be using NC17 Trekking Pro bars with Ergon GR2 grips but think adding some inboard bar ends will give me another position if needed.

Danneaux

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Re: Bike build order.
« Reply #10 on: December 08, 2013, 07:33:45 pm »
Hi Chris!

My, what exciting news, and all congratulations your way on the Thorn-to-be! The Club Tour is a lovely bike indeed. You'll do just fine with the parts swap and build and if you run into any snags, the Forum membership will be happy to weigh in with help as needed.
Quote
I'd be grateful to hear any opinions regarding the above order, or put me right if I've made some obvious mistakes (more than likely).
Aw, Chris, I don't think there's any one right or wrong way to go about it, but I'm happy to share the approach that works nicely for me...

To save time and reduce errors, I tend to make my frame-up builds based on dependencies, which I see you (and John; hi!) have taken into consideration. In other words, I start at the base and try to to things once so I don't have to remove components to redo something.

Accordingly, yes, a frame-sealing and painting the BB face is an excellent starting point, both best done with no other parts installed and with the frame free so the goo can be encouraged to run into the deepest recesses. Do be aware, if you use a square-taper BB with internal rings, facing is unnecessary, and if you use any BB with an outside mating surface, the fresh paint will soon be scraped away. I paint the exposed faces anyway *and* treat the threads/interface with grease or anti-seize. :D

I bolt on the saddle, then insert the well-greased seatpost into a well-greased seat tube to a point *just below* the minimum-insertion mark to prevent scarring of the 'post finish. Sometimes a little scuffing can occur or an unseen burr can make an unsightly scar and you want to catch that before you adjust the 'post to riding height. Mars will show later if they're above your usual riding height.

I grease/anti-seize, or LocTite as I go and use a torque wrench on all fittings. I refer to a list of torque readings so I don't have to look them up piecemeal. Wheels are pre-built (fully tensioned and trued) and all components (even new) are pre-greased and pre-adjusted before installation -- it always amazes me how many components are sold "dry" except for the thinnest skim of grease to prevent corrosion in shipping. Not a recipe for long bearing life if bolted on directly.

Next step is to insert the wheels with tubes/tires and cassette mounted so they can support the bike if necessary and they are required to set brake pads and drivetrain. By the way, brake pad setup goes so much more quickly if you disengage the return springs first. V-brakes invariably need their spring tension equalized before setup.

I then bolt-on the brakes and set them up, then the crankset with pedals, derailleurs, and chain. Pausing here, I do my baseline drivetrain adjustments: Derailleur throw stops, B-stop position, chain length, etc. entirely cable-free. Same for the brake and pad setup. Later, it is just a matter of running the cables/housings and doing the indexed setup/tension adjustments.

Moving forward, I install the stem with a full stack of spacers, bolt on the handlebars, and set my brake levers lightly to position (I usually prefer my drop 'bars level on top and about as high as my saddle-top. Brake lever placement depends on 'bar drop and reach and the clamp positions are marked with masking tape so I can reset them quickly after cabling). Shifters go on at this stage, whether they be downtube, bar-end, or brifter.

At this point the bike is pretty much assembled and ready to remove from the stand to set the hard points (seatpost height, fore-aft saddle placement, handlebar height/reach, brake lever placement) to my preference. I always get on the bike at this point to see if it indeed feels right. Once those hard-points are set, I know how long I need my cable housings, so I cut those and cable up the brakes and mechs, setting the tension as necessary.

Mudguards next. Even though it means removing the wheels, everything else is adjusted more easily without them, and having the bike otherwise complete makes a test ride possible and it also makes it easy to arc the 'guards to the inflated tires (extra steps required if you have a bike with ramped dropouts). Mudguards require I take special care, 'cos I fit them with long mudflaps and use a meter-stick to measure the angle between flap-bottom and tire contact patch to ensure the chainrings are shielded from direct spray. I'd love to do without the flaps, but they're necessary for my conditions and easily double the effectiveness of the 'guards for me.

Once the mudguards are in place, it is time for the racks. If the racks are adjustable, I make sure the top surfaces are level and placed so the load is carried as low and close to the center of the bike as possible. Occasionally, I will deliberately tilt a rack to a small degree so bags will slide firmly to one end or the other to prevent shifting; it depends on the combination of bag/rack used.

I install 'bar tape as the last step in case I need to adjust the brake levers or need to adjust cable housing length. a final cleanup of any exposed grease or fingerprints and the build is done with little if any need for further adjustment.

Lights -- particularly wired dyno lights -- disrupt the process a bit but are typically added to a full build, even though it may mean removing the wheels and possibly the (fitted) mudguards once again. Everything else has to work first before the lights go on.

'Works for me and gets the bike done and me on the road soonest -- always a priority with any new bike!

Best,

Dan.

Chris M

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Re: Bike build order.
« Reply #11 on: December 08, 2013, 08:33:51 pm »
That's great Dan, many thanks for your comprehensive answer. Some good points there that I will take on board. I think I've read your previous post regarding V brake set up and equalising the spring tensions, I'll look it up again to see how it's carried out, thanks for the reminder!
I'm sure there will be more questions along the way; I'm finding the forum a great resource.

Andre Jute

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Re: Bike build order.
« Reply #12 on: December 08, 2013, 10:09:45 pm »
What was that you said Ian. ;D

I understood, but only because I've recently been reading French film critics...

Chris, you need a tube of copper grease, for assembly. The Park Tools one is generally nasty and my tube has been relegated to the once a year job of greasing exercise machine bearings in my gym. But it has an excellent reputation, and you assemble a bike only once, if you do it right. On my bike I now use good-smelling, clean Phil's Tenaceous for everything, greasing, assembly, everything. I don't know if it is available where you live -- my tube was a gift from Jags, who got it from the States with Dan's assistance. Another clean grease that does surprisingly well as an assembly grease (I tested it for 7000km in the click box of a Rohloff which has mating surfaces where you can see any ingress instantly) is Finish Line White Teflon which is very widely available. Mine came from Chainreactioncycles who have the great advantage of not charging postage and being the fastest mail-order merchant as well as the largest for when you need something you overlooked. (Give the talked up colorless Ceramic Grease a miss -- the one I had, from Finish Line too, was just about water-soluble.)

Two torque wrenches are generally necessary in the assembly of a bike but you can borrow them. The small one covers say 2-14 or 3-16Nm, and the larger one needs to go from there to about 40 50NM.

Before you start the assembly, inspect your present bike and all the new components you bought. You may want to standardize the fasteners to good quality hex socket stainless steel, with stainless washers. Shopping for these alone can consume a morning.

I know, I know, a good quality assembly doesn't use tie wraps. Rubbish! If you're obsessive, you need several sizes, at least two. I have a selection in a fancy box (courtesy of Lidl!) but I tend to use only one large size, about 10mm wide in 12in lengths, which I buy in bulk from the hardware store, for everything from cable bundling to cable runs. If you arrange the cut ends right, it looks like a feature rather than something you're trying to hide.

It's been hinted at up above... DON'T cut the mudguard stays until the bike is fully built and tested!

Cut your cables generously with the handlebars sitting on a full stack of spacers; as you grow older, you want to sit more upright, and the thing about a Thorn is that it outlasts all fashions.

Buy a quick link or two for your new chain so you can make the chain longer again if you trim it too short.
« Last Edit: December 09, 2013, 05:56:18 pm by Andre Jute »

Chris M

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Re: Bike build order.
« Reply #13 on: December 09, 2013, 03:46:21 pm »
Thanks for the 'heads up' Andre

The fasteners had not even crossed my mind, after a bit of searching on ebay I found a seller with good prices on M5 bolts, A4 grade. These have just been ordered at various lengths along with washers to match the ones supplied. I hadn't noticed until today that quite a few of the bolts on the frame have some weird hexagonal heads, quite ugly looking to be honest. I think you may have saved me quite a bit of frustration by mentioning the fasteners.

The torque wrenches I have; a cyclo one covering 2-20Nm and a Draper covering 10-80Nm.

I had previously bought some Fenwicks copper anti seize grease ready for the build but already had some Finish Line Teflon grease, l'm not sure which one to use now. Would the Fenwicks be better as it is copper?

Many thanks for the advice.

Chris

Andre Jute

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Re: Bike build order.
« Reply #14 on: December 09, 2013, 06:15:46 pm »
Those torque wrenches will see you right, Chris.

I don't know the Fenwicks. Maybe someone else has an opinion. I mentioned the White Teflon's special qualities only because I don't like getting my hands dirty unnecessarily. If I were building a bike from scratch today, what I would consider doing is to use the copper (assembly) grease for everything on the bike that I will never handle again, at least not for years, say up to and including the bottom bracket (generously greased inside the bottom bracket shell even if wax oiled) and use the White Teflon as an assembly grease for everything that gets handled and regressed at least once a year. As I said yesterday, I've moved on from the White Teflon to Phil's Tenacious, which smells like old-fashioned hair pomade... but it may not be generally available, and the Teflon served me well for years. I also found that copper grease irritatingly promotes misthreading where the threads are precision-cut, because it is so thick and obstructive, whereas the Teflon and Phil's promote correct mating.

I've spent years building a near-zero maintenance bike (I don't even oil the chain), so I'm perhaps not the best person to comment on grease for high-maintenance bikes.