Clipless cycling shoes/pedals for touring: Suggestions?

[Danneaux]

Hi All!

Thanks so much to each of you for weighing in with your experiences. Now I've spent the early morning looking at each of the links -- and user reviews online -- I can see why each of the shoes and pedals you recommend are your favorites. Each has something unique to recommend them, and each is a good value for the money spent.

Today, I hope to drop by REI and try on a wider range of shoes to see about fit and to look at pedals with the shoes in mind. I can see that to some extent it helps to think of the two as a system if one is to maximize benefit/priorities.

Thanks to your help, I'm beginning to form a better picture of what I might prefer or need:
• Given where I'm coming from and my need for limited damage-free walkability, I think I'd prefer a stiffer shoe.
• A larger pedal platform of some sort would seem to better distribute pedal pressure and help to prevent/eliminate hot-spots.
• Double-entry wouldn't be a requirement so long as I could still make some sort of forward progress on the "off" side till I could click in.
• I think I would consider cleat with multi-directional release to allow that quick toe dab when making my way through roots and goat tracks, uphill, when momentum can run out quickly. Ian's comment cleared up a mystery about how one could also run clips-and-straps in the reverse side of some pedals and not encounter a snag -- just tighten them down into a compact bundle on the reverse side when not on use.
• I think it unlikely I would ride in ordinary shoes; with my high-light cadence, I need to be firmly attached except for those frantic few moments as the pedal comes 'round when starting uphill with a heavy load on loose surfaces.
• I am greatly attracted to the amount of knee-friendly float in the Time pedals/cleats, but worry about reports of relatively quick-wearing, expensive brass cleats and the limited surface area that seems to characterize Times. I surely do like the reports about long bearing life and ease of use, again with that generous amount of float.
• The near-universal availability of SPD-compatible pedals, cleats, and shoes appeal in terms of wide availability and a better chance to rectify a mistake by replacing just one component if I make one initially.
• If it weren't for the possibility of damage-free limited walking, I'd go with a lighter, stiffer roadie setup, but that's what I already have. I'm a little appalled at the rotating weight of these systems compared to mine. My SunTour Superbe Pro pedals ( http://www.velobase.com/ViewComponent.aspx?ID=731f7dc9-4d2e-45c6-9acd-da181eea1b3d&Enum=109 ) weigh only about 250g and the ol' Dettos come in at about 640g/pair even with orthotics included. I'm wondering how this will all feel at my hummingbird cadence. To that extent, something like Honesty's quasi-roadie A600s begin to have greater appeal, and they do have a generous platform to better distribute stress. I can see myself with something like the A600s matched to Shimano WM51 shoes if I just cannot get a men's size to fit (here in the US, men's shoes seem to have standardized on a "D" width, while women's are a "B". My feet are thin, flat-arched, and -- depending on brand -- about an "A" to "AA" width).

Fraser, Honesty, Ian, and Neil, thanks so much for your thoughts and suggestions. Jags, what a gem to keep my in mind; no worries about the shoes not working, it is the thought that counts. All...this is really a tremendous help, and is moving me to better define my needs. I need to watch expenses, so I'd like to get this as right as possible first time out of the gate. One reason for the focus on REI is the fail-safe ability to make a return in the first year after purchase if I absolutely cannot make something work for my needs, even after careful pre-purchase research. I don't abuse their kind policy, but sometimes a person can't really see all the ins and outs of a product until they hold it in their hands, so nearly all my returns to them have been in unused, as-delivered, resalable condition.

Please keep the suggestions coming!

All the best,

Dan. (...who is feeling a bit less trepidation on considering a change from the way he's "always" done things)

[julk]

Dan,
If you decide to go the SDP route, then the shimano xt t780 pedals have not been mentioned and are worth a look.
SPD cleat one side, large flat platform the other, integrated reflectors, maintainable.
I use these on 2 bikes and find them excellent.

The only snag is they need an 8mm allen key to fit/remove - I carry a 6mm allen key with an 8mm adaptor to save some weight.
Julian.

[Danneaux]

...shimano xt t780...I use these on 2 bikes and find them excellent.

A very worthwhile pedal to consider for my needs, Julian; thanks for the endorsement. I very much like the large platform...does the platform come into play for distributing pedal load even when using the SPD side? Or is it primarily for use when pedaling on the back-side? In any case, it appears very useful and the reflectors are always a nice addition when riding on-road.

Thanks!

Best,

Dan.

[jags]

Dan,
If you decide to go the SDP route, then the shimano xt t780 pedals have not been mentioned and are worth a look.
SPD cleat one side, large flat platform the other, integrated reflectors, maintainable.
I use these on 2 bikes and find them excellent.

The only snag is they need an 8mm allen key to fit/remove - I carry a 6mm allen key with an 8mm adaptor to save some weight.
Julian.

wow never spotted those  julian have them on the wish list thanks .

[JWestland]

And don't forget to check e-bay for use pedal deals, a few months of use makes no difference on the Shimano pedals and gives you a nice "try for cheap" opportunity

You can get plastic reflector bodies to fit around most SPD pedals, though they're probably not load bearing. The XT780 look great for people wanting to be able to go both way.

[jags]

i have a trapped nerve in my hip man its painfull when i'm going up hills but i find the broad platform peddal a bit of help (SHERPA)  i have time impact on the raleigh  great pedals but when the pain kicks in there torture.

[sdg_77]

I'll vote for M324s too - very versatile.  We find having the option to ride on the flat side in traffic is useful and when 'going Dutch' i.e. cycling everywhere beyond 10m away on a campsite they allow cycling in crocs/flipflops etc.

Having wide feet and high insteps I go for Specialized shoes with the high arch support inserts, though I guess that won't help you much Dan ...

One advantage of spds might be the range of shoes available,  I have some fairly flexible Specialized Tahoes for days when I am expecting to walk around a lot and some sporty MTB race shoes for more distance oriented days.

I have used SPD-L roadie shoes and cleats on the whizzy bike but I can't say  I see much advantage unless the ride is 100km+ at 'press-on' pace.

sdg.

[julk]

I very much like the large platform...does the platform come into play for distributing pedal load even when using the SPD side? Or is it primarily for use when pedaling on the back-side?.

Dan,
The platform is 99% for the flat side which is very good even when using ordinary sandals or the like.

I have just checked and the SPD sides on mine are showing almost no wear on the surrounding black alloy platform. The cleated side support comes from the SPD 'cage' and 2 flatted areas on the central spindle either end of the SPD cage. I find this gives me enough support and more than my much older double sided XTR SPDs.

You could get some support from the platform when cleated in if your cleats were deeply recessed into the shoe, mine are nearly flush with the walking surface as I suspect most will be.
I think that any wear this side, i.e. on the underneath of the platform, is from my poor attempts to pick up the cleats as I tap down with my toes.

I can tell which way round the pedals are as I attempt to cleat in by the noise and feel of contact.
Julian.

[il padrone]

Sorry to come in on the discussion a little late but I've found Time Atac Alium clipless pedals to be easier on the knees than various Shimano offerings and they seem pretty bombproof too. The plus side also is that the cleats are SPD shoe compatible. I previously had Shimano XTR pedals fitted to my RST but find the Time superior in every way.

+1 for Time ATAC pedals.

I have the newer version of them with a completely composite body that does not scratch up. Also they have a wider platform beneath the bails, with polished steel protection, which gives great support. The width matters more than the length IMHO. Double-sided always.

[Danneaux]

Hi All!

I just returned home from an hour's shoe-sizing session at the local REI, thanks to the most patient, kind clerk in the world. She just kept bringing boxes, hoping to find something that would work, and in the end advised me to get the pair I did "only to try on the carpet with your insoles and orthotics to find out what would work better elsewhere 'cos we've run out here and I want you to get a really good fit".

My! I wish I could gave cloned her to work in every store I visit!

This seems to be the time of year to look at buying cycling shoes; they're on sale everywhere at the moment.

I tired all they had in stock, and it seems the shoes do vary from one another in fit for the same number designation and again between models. She suggested the women's models to get somewhere close to a fit, but the largest they had was an anemic 43, and I was hard against the toe box at the end. In men's shoes, the "roadie" models fit much better and more closely than the SPD/MTB types, but I've already got a (very vintage) road-racing shoe in the old cleated Dettos.

What I wound up taking home for further examination and educational purposes is s men's size 44 Giro Carbide ("Carbide"; no alpha-numeric designators here!) that happened to also be reduced from ~USD$100 to USD$69. They are an unfortunate Operation Desert Storm replica color scheme of khaki and brown, but I could overlook the color if they could be made to fit.

The problem I consistently ran into is most of the shoes are too tall in the "cone", the part over the instep and toes. This meant I ran out of foldover velcro or ratchet-buckle travel before they got anywhere near snug. By sizing down, I was able to get close to the width I needed, but then the toes were too short. By sizing up to fit my long big toes, they quickly became too wide/tall. The heels on most of the men's shoes were so wide I popped out of them when I tried to walk. I *hate* shoe shopping with a white-hot passion, and briefly had visions of using the hatchet in my garage on the offending toes, making future efforts in this direction less traumatic.

In any case, the Giro Carbides are the closest of the lot and will give me an idea of where to go from here. It was heartening the men's shoes they had ran comparatively narrow, and the women's models are now marked off the list as too short. The women's Shimanos in 43 missed by so far, I doubt the 44s would work. In general, the Shimanos ran shorter than other brands for the same numbered size. I liked the men's XC30 ( http://www.rei.com/product/848488/shimano-xc30-mountain-bike-shoes-mens ) , but the velcro pulled to where it wouldn't latch and the nice lace-up MT33s ( http://www.rei.com/product/848490/shimano-mt33-mountain-bike-shoes-mens ) laced up till the two sides touched over the tongue.

Someone was thinking, 'cos the pedal display was in the same area and that made it easy to take a pedal off the slat-wall and hold a shoe on it to see just how much support there might be between the two. Stepping on each pedal with the (cleatless) shoes was a big help in feeling for hotspots as well. The shoes I tried were not the "trainer-shoe" type of SPD, but the more MTB-oriented ones, and these did a pretty good job of isolating me from the pedal, though I thought I noticed a positive difference in the pedals that had wider platforms.

The most supportive was a double-sided pedal, the Shimano M424 ( http://www.rei.com/product/752295/shimano-m424-spd-pedals ), a basic SPD with a plastic "horse collar" that floated about and supported the shoe nicely to the edges of the sole. It would be possible to use everyday shoes on them, but you'd feel the SPD part if you pedaled very far. The M540 ( http://www.rei.com/product/705310/shimano-m540-spd-bike-pedals )seemed to be the Standard in plain SPDs. They didn't have the A520 or A600 in stock. The PDT-400 had a plastic "horse collar" as well as reflectors, but didn't seem to support the shoe as well. The A530s had a nicely concave plain platform on one side and an SPD on the other and the SPD stood well proud, so no aid from the platform there. The M530s had a metal surround that helped beyond the basic SPD mount but bot as much as the plastic collars. I really liked the XTM785 ( http://www.rei.com/product/826096/shimano-xt-m785-spd-mountain-bike-pedals ).

I did see the much-recommended M324s. They are surely a versatile design, and for a traditionalist like myself, they look kinda-sorta like quill/rattrap pedals. I like them, but at the moment, they seemed to be sold out beyond the display sample .

Whew. What a learning experience! This is one area where it just wouldn't do to order blindly online or by mail order without trying first. I have much more to learn, and surely appreciate the head-start you've all given me. I have a good memory for conversations and what I've read, and your words came back to me in the store aisles; thanks!

Oh! I see you've just posted the Time ATACs, Pete. I'll look at those next. I like the non-scratch, wider body and double-sided entry. Are they compatible with SPD shoes, Pete? Any problems with excessive cleat wear? The cleats look a little soft and are kinda expensive at USD$31, so I'm wondering if this has been an issue in your use.

Best,

Dan.

[il padrone]

Time pedals run with Time cleats. Not at all compatible with the SPD cleats.

Time have a design that allows the cleat to wear but the connection to the pedals is not affected. Even with worn cleats you always still have a solid engagement. SPD, as the cleat wears the pedal-engagement gets more and more sloppy. You click into the Times and there is always a solid 'clunk' that confirms you are clipped in and there's no loose feeling.

The cleats are a bit softer than SPDs but I am still amazed at how thin a lip of metal will give secure engagement. I have found the cleats last me a good 3-4 years, but usually I have replaced the shoes before that and need new cleats because the old ones have worn the screw heads to the point they are not readily removeable. Taken to the ultimate wear, Times would break the front tongue on the cleat and not engage, whereas Shimano would leave you with a cleat that does not disengage.

I've had the Times on the tourer for ~12 years and replaced the cleats 3 times I think. Only once have I actually paid for new cleats as I have twice upgraded the pedals (swapped old pedals to my tandem; new Thorn Nomad, new pedals) and you get the cleats with the pedals.

[Danneaux]

Hi Pete!

All very helpful; thanks!

Time pedals run with Time cleats. Not at all compatible with the SPD cleats.

<mods> Yes, I understand. What I'm wondering is if SPD-compatible shoes will accept Time cleats (in other words, will time cleats fit the same two-bolt holes that accept SPD cleats)?

Best,

Dan.

[il padrone]

Oh yes. Time uses the same two-bolt MTB shoe standard.

[edit] The other thing in favour of Time is mud. Their mud-clearance is exceptional. I virtually never find that I cannot clip-in when riding/walking on muddy tracks (in great contrast to SPD). The only times that pedal-engagement has ever been difficult/not possible has been when the mud has stone in it - rock in your cleat will stuff up any pedal engagement.

[Danneaux]

Oh yes. Time uses the same two-bolt MTB shoe standard.

Terrific, Pete! The greater "float" of the Times has great appeal to my knees, and will bear close investigation. I also like the idea of the essentially mar-proof composite body and the sacrificial cleat to extend pedal retention bail life.

I see there is also a Time ATAC MX6 pedal that has an extended platform as well: http://www.rei.com/product/855592/time-atac-mx-6-pedals

Looking into this further...

Best,

Dan. (...who is just delighted with the response, thoughts, and opinions)

[Relayer]

Hiya Dan

If you can get a workaround to make Shimano SPD shoes fit, then I use a nice black pair of MT43 shoes, I don't think they are the latest model but still available at CRC :-

http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/Models.aspx?ModelID=70096&_$ja=tsid:46412|cgn:Shimano+-+Shoes+MTB|cn:Chain+Reaction-UK-PLA-PLA-All-DT-SE|kw:267195UK_MT43+MTB+SPD+Shoes&gclid=CLqtpPmXz7gCFa3ItAodL1oAjQ

The XT pedals you mentioned look like the type that require a large hex wrench to fit and/or undo -

http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/Models.aspx?ModelID=27034&_$ja=tsid:46412|cgn:Park+Tool+-+Tools+-+Allen+Key/Wrench|cn:Chain+Reaction-UK-PLA-PLA-All-DT-SE|kw:84840UK_Hex+Wrench+Tool&gclid=CNCMrIqaz7gCFQ_LtAodKjcAUw

Andy Blance once stated that was an extra tool too heavy to carry on tour.


P.S. I can't get these CRC hyperlinks to paste in complete, they always seem to end at the underscore?