Clipless cycling shoes/pedals for touring: Suggestions?

[Danneaux]

Hi All!

I need to tap into your collective advice and wisdom on the matter of clipless shoes and pedals for touring. As a member of the cyclistes anciens I have no experience with these, and need some advice and suggestions to better avoid a mistake.

Here's the deal...

My recent stint pushing the expedition-laden Nomad and trailer 11mi/18km up 13%+ grades in gravel and dirt while wearing my ancient Detto Pietro Article 74 cycling cleats has caused me to rethink a few things.

Nearly all my bikes are equipped with really high-quality road quill pedals that are unlikely to wear out anytime soon. To use them, I must wear my old Detto Pietro racing cleats -- which also happen to be the rare cycling shoe that fits my narrow, flat feet (after padding them out with orthotics and such they still wrinkle some, but the fit is acceptable for riding). I have to have good isolation from the pedal 'cos I broke-down the fat sacs in my feet by riding too much in trainers early on in my cycling career.

Thinking about it, if I used my remaining pairs of Dettos and (no longer available) cleats with the pedals on my other bikes with the very limited walking I would expect, I can probably get another decade out of the lot -- at least. This would be great, 'cos equipping every bike with clipless pedals of similar quality would break the Banque du Danneaux if done all at once.

The plan, then, would be to equip the Nomad with SPD-pedals to match the limited walkability of MTB shoes for touring (as opposed to road racing shoes, which would me back where I am...having to carry spare shoes for limited walking else I damage the shoes/cleats). I'd simply change to my "Nomad shoes" when I wanted to ride it; everything else would stay the same. Yay.

So, this brings me to a couple questions.

First, shoes. I've tried on Men's MTB shoes and found myself swimming in them. The heel is too wide to stay socketed and the toe box is so wide and high, I run out of takeup before they're snug. I'm thinking of going for a masculine-looking pair of women's MTB cycling shoes to get the fit I need. I've sometimes had to do this with athletic trainers and it was a workable solution. Right now, the leading candidate is the Shimano WM51 (reviewed here: http://www.rei.com/product/830715/shimano-wm51-mountain-bike-shoes-womens ) or possibly the Pearl Izumi All-Road II ( http://www.rei.com/product/853264/pearl-izumi-all-road-ii-bike-shoes-womens ). I'd like to spend no more than about USD$100 for the shoes, and wouldn't mind getting more expensive ones if they were about that price when on sale.

Has anyone here used either of these shoes? Can anyone suggest a narrow men's alternative at a similar price-point? Thoughts and ideas are welcome.

Second, pedals.  Reviews I've read indicate small ones are more likely to result in hot spots and nerve pain than those with greater surface area, though I would imagine it depends on the shoes they're used with. I'd like shielded cartridge bearings and cro-mo spindles.

Jawine has already suggested eBay and with good reason; the prices I've seen there for new are roughly half the price of new online and about a third the price of new at local stores.

Black would be very nice aesthetically to maintain the Stealthy Nomad image, but I could live with silvery, I guess.

Several have caught my eye, including these well-reviewed ones:
• Shimano A520 SPD Sport Pedals, apparently single-side entry: http://www.rei.com/product/724917/shimano-a520-spd-sport-pedals
• Shimano M540 SPD Bike Pedals, double-entry, which seems a plus: http://www.rei.com/product/705310/shimano-m540-spd-bike-pedals
• Shimano M424 SPD Pedals, double-entry? These appear essentially the same as the M540, but with a larger surface area thanks to the plastic platform surround: http://www.rei.com/product/752295/shimano-m424-spd-pedals
• Shimano XT M785 SPD Mountain Bike Pedals, which look to be a higher quality version of the M424: http://www.rei.com/product/826096/shimano-xt-m785-spd-mountain-bike-pedals
• Some of the Crank Bros lower-end Candy pedals look nice, but there have been worrisome reports of spindle breakage and the occasional bad bearing.

So, that's where I am in my thinking at present. Any thoughts, suggestions, preferences or prejudices wrt to clipless touring pedals and shoes for skinny-footed male cyclists like myself?

Many thanks in advance to all!

Best,

Dan. (...who thinks fitting feet may be nothing compared to footing the bill)

[jags]

Dan before you buy what size do you take, i have a new pair of northwave look exactly like those shimano if the size is right there yours. cant check now though as the wifes in bed and thats where there stored . 
but like you i wore straps and nailed cleats for years change to look pedals  when they became popular  never looked back  far far better.mind you the time pedals are far better than look much more float.
anyway back to shoes and pedals  ,my pedals are flat one side cleats other cant think of model my shoes are great as well but again cant thing what model they are if i can find them on chainreaction i'll post here.

[jags]

http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/Models.aspx?ModelID=5937
http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/Models.aspx?ModelID=55369

here you go dan both excellent.

[Danneaux]

Thanks very much, Jags; extremely thoughtful of you!

I'm...not sure what size I really am, as American (and Italian) sizes seem to have changed. My men's Dettos are a 45, but that number now seems too big to fit well in current sizes. My men's street shoes used to be an American 10.5 but are now a 9.5 (I'm shrinking as "vanity sizing" has hit the American men's shoe market). In a men's styled women's trainer (say, an Adidas Vigor TR2) I'm women's size US 11 (which the box tells me is a UK 9.5, German 9.5, French 44, a Japanese 280, and a Chinese 270).

Looking at REI, a customer review for those Shimano WM51s says she usually wears a US size 10.5/11 in women's and got a 43 and had just enough room at the toe. Given that, I might take a 43...it is as large as REI have available. I do see the Zappos online shoe store offers them in a 44 as well. Given 100% of their reviewers thought the shoes ran true to size, then the 44 might be the better choice, as it correlates to a US women's 11.2, the same size as my Adidas trainers.

Really helps to hear what else works. If I were going for roadie shoes, then Look or Time would definitely be near the top of my list, but the MTB style seems more "walkable" around camp and therefore better for my general loaded touring needs. Any problems picking up the single-sided pedals, jags? Do you just pedal on the other side if necessary (say, when in a hurry getting away from a traffic light or when needing to dab a toe on sketchy single-track?

Best,

Dan.

[George Hetrick]

http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/Models.aspx?ModelID=5937
http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/Models.aspx?ModelID=55369

here you go dan both excellent.

Yup -- I run the M324 pedals on my bikes and like them a lot. I can use conventional shoes on the quill side, and SPDs on the SPD side.

[Danneaux]

Ah! <rubs hands in delight> Data!

Jags, the MT33 shoes sound from the reviews as if they run pretty narrow; that's very encouraging. They look nice and conventional laces offer some real flexibility in fit and easy replacement if a lace breaks.

Jags and George, the M324 pedals sound really intriguing and versatile. Did you find the bearings to be fairly long-lived? I ran across a couple reviews that mentioned problems with that as well as rust on the cage, but that might have been a limited experience.

Thanks, guys!

Best,

Dan.

[jags]

so far so good with mine Dan ,there is a wee bit of play in the pedals but nothing to worry about me thinks.
Dan best would be to go with mountain bike shoes you wont do any walking in time cleats  or look cleats for that matter ,where as the spd's are great the cleats are recessed into the sole.
I'll get back to you tomorrow on the size i have I'll send you a photo.

[George Hetrick]

Jags and George, the M324 pedals sound really intriguing and versatile. Did you find the bearings to be fairly long-lived? I ran across a couple reviews that mentioned problems with that as well as rust on the cage, but that might have been a limited experience.

Rust on the cage is definitely an issue for mine. I use 'em anyway.

[Andybg]

Hi Dan

Cannot give any advice on the paticular shoes but some thoughts come to mind.

Shimano shoes are notoriosly small/narrow so you may not need to go down a size to get the right fit. I have MT53 shoes in a 46 which is a comfortable fit but I can take a 44 shoe in some styles 9other makes) and I am generaly a 45 (first size I try in any shoe)

My other thought is although mtb spd is a vast improvemnet on road bike cleats they are still limited in their comfort and ability for waliking. I find mine great for walking round town but they start to let you down when the going gets tough. The limited bend in the shoes makes foot articulation almost impossible and the hard soles give low grip.

Since moving to spd, I always carry a pair of Vibram 5 fingers with me. They weigh almost nothing, I find them very comfortable and give excellent grip/articulation for getting over rough ground. For touring purposes they also give you a set of slippers/evening camp wear.

They are relatively expensive but if looked after they do last.

Andy

[Danneaux]

Thanks, Andy; this is really helpful as well, especially wrt Shimano shoe fit.

One question I have after reading this summary of MTB shoe characteristics...  http://www.performancebike.com/bikes/Content_10052_10551_-1_CyclingShoesPedals
...is whether an MTB shoe's sole would be stiff enough for my occasional long 300-400km days in the saddle compared to the equivalent modern road-bike shoe.

It would still seem to come down to surface area underfoot, and so my thoughts are beginning to turn toward the Shimano SPD pedals with the larger platform surround such as the XT M780/M785.

Real good point about the relative walkability of MTB shoes. I tried on a pair in the store, and while it was possible, I wouldn't want to walk very far. The big thing to me was the ability to walk whatever small distance without damaging the shoe/cleat. It looked like they might be the ticket for walking safely into the occasional store or public restroom without risk of a big public fall as I managed to do in a Belgian cafe (after the crowd finished gasping and expressing their worried concern...they applauded!).

<nods> Yes, I think I'd still want to take some sort of camp shoes.

All the best,

Dan.

[Rockymountain]

Dan

I currently have Shimano M324 on my Nomad and find them just perfect. I think you have the link above but here it is:

http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/Models.aspx?ModelID=5937

As for shoes, I have Shimano M088 ones and they are comfortable for walking and riding:

http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/Models.aspx?ModelID=91461

In the past I have tried Specialized touring shoes but because of their lack of stiffness (due to the smallness of the metal plate) I've ended up with footache after a couple of days.

I did LEJOGLE in June 2012 and found the combination worked very well.  Good luck with whatever you decide.

Fraser

[honesty]

I currently have the Shimano A600 pedal (better bearings and anodised, when compared to the A520). Im not sure its worth the extra over the 520, but I got them in a sales.

These pedals are great, I've never had hot spots on my feet and the extra platform support on the is really good. Mild downside, as they are single sided its a bit of a faff to get going now and again, but nothing you wont get used to. Also on mine I've put a few scours in the underside with my shoe cleat before I flip the pedals over and clip in properly. In general though, highly recommended.

On Shoes I went for Shimano M087's. These are what they call mountain sports rather than mountain touring, but I've found them very good for touring in. I initially wanted to get the RT82 shoe but my local shop couldn't get them in. As it turns out the sole is the same (As is the road shoe R087) its just the grip pattern thats significantly different. Following advice I got a size (or 2) larger than I usually take and I've found these to be fantastic. They are great cycling in and reasonably ok walking in though obviously not as comfortable as those shoes with a more flexible sole. My only problem is I should have probably gone for the wide version as they can pinch me left foot side a bit if I tighten the straps down.... my mistake though.

[IanW]

I used to use quill pedals + toeclips + straps (for nearly 20 years, since mid-teens).

But then about 15 years ago I switched to clipless. And I would now *not* go back to toeclips.

I went for Shimano SPD for 2 reasons:

a) The almost universal availability of pedals + cleats + compatible shoes

b) The much better "walkability" of the shoe + cleat combination.

When I switched I almost immediately persuaded my wife to also try SPDs. She was similarly a long-term quill + toe clips + straps user, but she was initially rather reluctant / hesitant.

So we bought the M324 pedals and I transferred the existing toe clips + straps across.

She really liked this option of using SPDs when going on a dedicated cycling trip
but then being able to use "ordinary" shoes in the toeclip side for casual / short cycle journeys
(When not using the toeclips the straps get done up really tight to avoid the clip occasionally trailing/scraping)

She still uses these pedals nearly 15 years later They are holding up fine, just the occasional splodge of new grease in the bearings.

However she also now uses double-sided SPDs (all be it with a pedal reflector clipped into one side) on another bike.

I have short-but-wide feet, so totally opposite to Dan's feet, but I can heartily recommend Shimano's SD66 SPD sandals, precisely because they have the ability to adjust the width at toe end of the shoe.

I assume you have Sheldon Brown (RIP) site, and in particular this page: http://sheldonbrown.com/shoe-pedal.html ?

And if you are interested in one-sided SPD with ordinary shoe use on the other (and in black)
you might want to look at: Shimano PD-T780 XT (available in US from at least: http://www.xxcycle.com/pedal-shimano-pd-t780,,en.php )
(They won't take toeclips + straps on the "plain" (i.e. non-SPD) side though.

--
Ian

[jags]

Dan sent you photos of shoes but sorry buddy i dont think there what your looking for and to small as well.
anyway the clipless pedals are great and hard to beat shimano.

[Neil Jones]

Sorry to come in on the discussion a little late but I've found Time Atac Alium clipless pedals to be easier on the knees than various Shimano offerings and they seem pretty bombproof too. The plus side also is that the cleats are SPD shoe compatible. I previously had Shimano XTR pedals fitted to my RST but find the Time superior in every way.