Technical > Travel'puters & e-readers

Netbook vs iPad/Tablet

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in4:
[Admin continuity note: Dan mentioned typing on his new travel'puter, a netbook. There seems to be some interest in travel computers for use on-tour, so I created a new child-board and split/merged the posts to it, starting here. -- Danneaux]

Go on Dan sate my curiosity, which travelputer did you go for?! I'm trying to convince myself of the virtues of mini-tablets. I'm not there yet despite trawling through pages of guff about ipad minis, Samsung Note 2 and something Googlish too. I'm not convinced yet but keep an open mind. A friend uses a Samsung N110 ( I think that is correct) and that appears to be a great value, portable piece of kit, with a proper keyboard too.

Danneaux:

--- Quote ---Go on Dan sate my curiosity, which travelputer did you go for?!
--- End quote ---
Hi Ian!

I figured that would getcha!  ;)

Short answer?

I got a factory-refurbished HP Mini 1104 netbook postpaid for USD$$226.08 in the factory box and with the static-cling shipping plastic still on the case, apparently never used.

Long answer follows....

Specs
The only problem: The main storage partition on the hard drive had never been formatted, but 5 minutes with G-parted fixed that and got rid of HP's goofy multiple-primary partition setup (I went with a single Win primary, then an extended with discrete logical parts). It uses an Intel® Atom™ N2600 (1.60 GHz, 1 MB L2 cache, 800 MHz FSB) with 2GB RAM (2 is needed 'cos Win7 takes up all of 1GB+ with running apps) and a 320GB hard drive that has accelerometer-actuated head parking (senses freefall and braces for impact). It is extremely rugged and has a 93% spill-resistant keyboard with terrific key action and gesture touchpad. It runs Win7Pro with Media Center and will play full HD (1080) YouTube videos without a hiccup or stutter, though won't do the same with my GoPro vids. 80211.a/b/g/n and BlueTooth 3.0 HS.  <-- This last has been an issue in hooking up to my wireless Canon printer/scanners, but I think it is a software issue, 'cos it hooks up fine to a phone. the thing came with a full factory 1-yr warranty and tech support with at-door pickup for repairs. it is a corporate rather than consumer version of the 1104. It measures 10.55 x 7.52 x 0.89 in (26.8 x 19.1 x 2.28 cm) and weighs 2.98lb/1.35kg with the 6-cell battery.

Among the good features is Win7 Pro, avoiding the crippling limitations of Win7 Starter. This means I get things like multi-touch support, virtual XP mode, Presentation mode, Windows Media Center, and multiple monitor support.

Power options
It has tunable power options. In "eco" mode, I get nearly 10 hours from the 6-cell battery. In "Performance" mode, I get a full 8 with the non-glare, sun-visible screen cranked up on full brightness. It was designed to be a real "laptop" -- it runs cool, has a solid bottom, and side-flow intakes and exhaust with a screen that folds flat and 180° of angle adjustment.

PC over tablet; why
After a *great* amount of research -- and given I'm "careful" with money -- I decided a tablet was not for me. Tablets are ideal for consuming content...not so good for creating it. Most have terrible glare problems when used outdoors or in a tent. There's no keyboard or stand. Besides cost, I would have had to add a wireless keyboard to the mix, which meant yet another battery to charge, and added weight. Too, the "apps" had to all be purchased, when I've got a *ton* of Windows stuff here already.

Battery life and power density (power per weight carried) were big on my list, along with reasonable functionality and overall weight and space.

I wanted native Flash capability for uploads to Flickr and such, and Java script and USB ports (3) and a card reader (1, multi-format) and wired networking (1).

I needed a *lot* of storage space to hold the HD video I'll be taking (and to offload it to), and my digital stills add up, too. The 320GB hard drive takes care of that, and I have the option of taking a USB-powered portable Pioneer DVD burner that is only 14mm thick (USD$34).

With virtualization, my own network has 24 computers, so being able to virtualize the computer on the fly to avoid the malware of public wifi was Big. Yes, I use security, but it is also nice to just trash the virtual C: drive when I'm done and anything that might have affected it.

I have a little USB Pharos GPS I wanted to plug into the 'puter and I will have all my Garmin worldwide maps on it whenever I plug-in my Garmin Oregon 400T as well as MS Streets & Trips, Magellan, and DeLorme mapping software and my Sony camera GPS tracking and GoogleEarth Pro, so I'm set there.

I also want to do some light photo editing, so I loaded on my Microsoft Digital Image Suite Editor, which takes all my Photoshop plug-ins it shares with GIMP and is light on resources.  The rest of the software is either from Portable Apps or stuff I've virtualized, thinstalled, or portabilized with Camino, so none of that appears in the registry. I've got 18 Gmail accounts to keep up with, so a hacked and reduced version of Thunderbird setup as a syncing IMAP client takes care of that. Comodo Dragon a hardened and slimmed version of Chrome works as the browser. I had those both portabilized, but the problem there was since neither appeared in the registry, they could not be made the default apps. I'm working on writing a little standalone resource linker so they can. SeaMonkey didn't play consistently with Google IMAP syncing, so that handy solution was out. I'll pick up some speed if I can go with the portabilized versions of the mail client and web browser, but I'm not having to wait; things are pretty snappy unless I have a lot of browser tabs open with high-demand content while all my mail accounts are also open.

Thanks for the memories...and OS options
I'll be using a Class 10 4GB SD card for ReadyBoost to extend the memory when desired (leaves the USB ports free and won't extend outside the chassis), and another swappable SD card that will carry a couple Linux distros, sharing the common DATA drive with Windows so I can access all my stuff no matter which OS I use. The Linux side will use Thunderbird with a common mail store shared with the Win side, and Chrome again as a browser. GIMP will handle photo-editing on that side, and VLC is my media player of choice on either OS. Skype on both with the built-in webcam. If I turn off journaling to extend the life of the solid-state card and turn off the hard drive, I think I can extend the battery life by about 28%.

The Competition
I initially wanted to get an ASUS netbook, but nearly all in this class ship with only 1GB of RAM, and adding another 1GB can be problematic, requiring complete disassembly, and it appears some models have only soldered RAM, which adds complications. The HP Mini 1104 came with 2GB and a clamshell back that exposes everything if needed for quick and easy home repairs/mods after the warranty period. Acer was another option, but also had some problems. Gateway was not a contender for me due to reliability concerns. Dell seems to have left the netbook arena, or at least has not kept it with HP. I think this Mini 1104 may be the last gasp for this market niche. Ultrabooks are far more powerful but far more expensive, and now everything on the Windows side is going to Win8, which I do *not* like in its present iteration.

I was very taken with the ASUS Transformer-series of tablets (detachable keyboards that contain battery-extenders), but an Android OS doesn't meet my needs. The Apple iPad was a lustworthy contender, but the price and features weren't suitable for my needs/use, either. Also, the battery in the iPad is captive, so a fresh once can't be swapped in, and it has to be sent in for battery replacement when it finally dies. If I take a spare 6-cell battery, I'm looking at about 16+ hours' use between needed recharges; more if I turn off the wireless and then flash-upload when I'm near wifi and plugged-in. At about 45min/night journaling in camp and adding pics to text, that's close to 21 days' worth of use; plenty in-between recharge opportunities. No, the SON/TTTP2 or SON/e-Werk charging systems won't charge directly, and a buffer battery doesn't make sense when I compare weight against intended use. Far better to hack a USB connector onto the spare netbook battery and use that as an emergency charging reserve for keeping the phone, GPS, water purifier and AA/AAA batteries topped up if I was going to be stationary for awhile. It is on the "to-do" list.

The ChromeBooks looked really appealing and slot right in near what I paid for the HP Mini 1104, but their offline functionality is not "there" yet for my needs, and on my tours I am so very often out of wifi and cell-tower range. I'm lucky to get a voice-capable connection; 4G capability is just out of the question. Burger King and McDonald's are my on-road free wifi friends, and so are some banks and department stores, all using free wifi access as a lure to increase store traffic. They also have mains power outlets, and I quickly adapt to becoming a power vampire, pulling a little from the mains at each place to top-off my high-draw/high-drain appliances. The 6-cell pack in the netbook charges from flat in about 1.6 hours, so it won't take much to top it off while I eat.

Relative costs
At mega-retailer BestBuy here in the States, a 32GB iPad with wifi currently sells for USD$599, but has only 10% the storage capacity of my little USD$288 netbook and no swappable battery. Add a wireless keyboard for ~USD$140 and a stand at ~USD$15 and a whole slew of apps to do what I want...(many of mine aren't Apple compatible), and we're talking more cost than I can manage and less functionality than I'd like. I think the iPad is a terrific solution for many, and I'd love to have one. However, I am limited on how much I can spend, and needed a travel computer for generating content, and this was a good solution for me. I think it is really good to analyze your own needs before purchase. I know some of us (PhilB, for example, who is on-tour as I write this) are doing amazingly well with their wifi Kindles as an all-in-one solution, and at little cost in the bargain. It is worth a look if you won't be doing a lot of writing and want to keep costs down.

I guess like I'm a roadie at heart, I'm also a computer and research guy. I was mainframes and Macs for many years (my first Mac SE retailed for a staggering $6,500; thank goodness for institutional subsidies that offset about 2/3 of the price), but cost and applications drove me to PCs.

Amazing value and amazingly useful for the money
At ~USD$400-500 new, the margin between my HP Mini 1104 and a lower-level iPad isn't that huge, but at USD$288, the scales tip in favor of the Mini 1104 pretty quickly. At just over USD$200 it is a terrific value as I have mine setup. If you can find one on eBay as I did, factory refurbished and carrying a full factory warranty from an factory-authorized reseller/retailer, then it is an almost unmatchable deal if it meets your needs. I had feared getting a travel'puter would doom it to sitting idle in between trips, but this is working so well, I find myself carrying it with me throughout the house here at home, into the backyard, in the car, etc. I hate to say it, but compared to my speedy Core i7 laptop with 12GB of RAM, this thing measures up well for day-to-day tasks and is a lot more portable. I just wish it had been a skosh smaller so it had fit in my HB bag. Fits in the rack pack just fine in its little hardshell compressed-foam zippered case or slides right into a pannier without taking much room.
-  -  -  -  -  -  -
The real reason I even considered something like this is because I really can't write legibly anymore. I used my hands too hard for too many years thanks to the supposed immortality of an extended youth (antics like chinning myself with a single finger on each hand and work as a car mechanic), and am now paying the price. They cramp terribly when writing and even I can't read what I wrote. 17-hour days in the saddle on really rough roads don't help either, but I can hammer away on the keyboard really quickly using four fingers and a couple thumbs.

All the best,

Dan. (...who tries to maintain an even bike:computer ratio)

Matt2matt2002:
Jezzo! Even more for my poor brain to take in and chew over.
Chinning one fingered? Amazing. Any pix?
But the 'Puter info was just what I needed. I very nearly bought an eBay Asus last month. Out bid at the last min and from reading your comments I am happy.
Thanx Dan

Andre Jute:

--- Quote from: Danneaux on December 29, 2012, 10:37:11 pm ---Also, the battery in the iPad is captive, so a fresh once can't be swapped in, and it has to be sent in for battery replacement when it finally dies. If I take a spare 6-cell battery, I'm looking at about 16+ hours' use between needed recharges; more if I turn off the wireless and then flash-upload when I'm near wifi and plugged-in. At about 45min/night journaling in camp and adding pics to text, that's close to 21 days' worth of use; plenty in-between recharge opportunities.

--- End quote ---

That's wishful thinking. We have several iPad, including the iPad 2 and the New iPad or Retina model.  I use the iPad 3, the Retina model, daily for reading or composing music in my bath, while I eat my midnight snack, and in my gym on the exercise machines. I have never, ever, seen the promised 10 hours of operation, even just reading. In fact, just reading in Pages chews through a fully charged battery in around four or five hours. According to Kingsoft Battery Doctor, which promises to make your battery live longer, I've charged my iPad  26 times this month, including three full charges from dead, which disturbs Battery Doctor. That's to the 28th of the month. It goes on the charger automatically, every day when I go to bed, even if it hasn't died before then. Normally it is down at 20 or 30%. Those last few per cent go down so fast, you can almost hear the clock ticking. The only heavy consumer I haven't switched off is wi-fi because books etc that I'm editing are sent to the iPad via wifi and it's a nuisance switching it on and off. All the "push" notifications are off, no e-mail, no social media, nothing; I don't even write to these fora on the iPad.

I love the iPad for extending my working hours despite my health problems, for keeping me working away from my desktop Mac, but I wouldn't dream of taking it on the road for a serious tour. That's quite aside from the short battery life. The thing is obviously physically fragile. Even inside the house, and even though I have a nice tactile Italian leather case for it, my iPad lives in Griffin's "mil spec" Survivor Case. It's a superb case, but it's HEAVY. More, it isn't waterproof, though I think the iPad inside it will survive fairly heavy splashing -- but not the sort of persistent rain cyclists and their gear are exposed to. I have an excellent waterproof bag for when I use mine outside, including daytrips on the bike on unfamiliar roads where it is my map, and in the bath, but that just makes it clumsy to handle. (I bought the waterproof bag from Mini-in-the-box for under ten bucks. Highly recommended.)

The lack of a separate keyboard should not be a consideration. The iPad's onscreen keyboard in landscape format is bigger than many of the poncier keyboards now sold. You soon learn to type on it. However, I also have a keyboard, bluetooth, rechargeable, which looks (it is completely covered in imitation leather), feels and works a treat; it comes with a smart folio case that offers the iPad normal protection, but again, none of this is waterproof in any longdistance bike tourer sense. But battery life is in excess of thirty hours on mine... The same keyboard is available without the fancy trimmings for about twenty bucks; ask me for details if you care, as I have them saved somewhere. There are small bluetooth keyboards available -- they're the most common kind -- with waterproof rubberised keys but general opinion is that they're rubbish to type on.

The iPad is fast developing into a piece of equipment on which you can do serious work. For instance, you can track changes, not only on the iPad but across computers, in Pages, including in documents imported from Word and created or edited on any computer. Only two years ago we would have considered that terrific sophistication on an expensive desktop computer. But I just don't see anything the price of an iPad, or even the iPad mini, which is a more useful size on a bike, as a tourer's computer. Maybe if it came from the factory ruggedised, and were a third the price for the loaded models, it would look like more of a match for the job.

Andre Jute

Danneaux:

--- Quote ---Chinning one fingered? Amazing. Any pix?
--- End quote ---

I have an old one somewhere from the days when photos were printed from negatives. It was even more impressive 'cos I did it using the 1.5cm extension of the doorframe. I did it 'cos it elicited even more cries of dismay from family members than cracking knuckles. Now I know why. Ah, youth; it is wasted on the young!  :D (I also weighed less then and had a more impressive power-to-weight ratio).

[well-meaning mode on]
Don't do this, Matt. Don't even try it. Even if you can, you will regret it. As have my crack-jamming, rock-climbing friends. We all have claws now, instead of fingers. Even if you can't imagine living to or past age 30, chances are you will even if by accident, and it is really bad to go past the warranty period on some of these body parts. Nothing in the aftermarket parts stream can hold a candle to OEM.
[well-meaning mode off]
-  -  -  -  -  -

--- Quote ---Out bid at the last min and from reading your comments I am happy.
--- End quote ---
Any questions along this line, give a shout. Enjoy Aberdeen! Happy New Year!

Here's a bit more about what drove my decision...

I could get three of my factory-refurbed HP Mini 1104s for the price of one middling current IPad even before adding the keyboard and such. That was huge for me.

Free software from open-source or licensed stuff I already own. A standard OS and the option to extend service life with a Linux distro. This is a tough little machine with the nonglare screen closed inside when I shut the lid. Netbooks are going at fire-sale prices 'cos they're no longer sexy in the consumer marketplace, but the basic functionality remains (I have doubts they'll make the trip to Windows 8, but they might; MS' Surface RT is bog-slow compared to this or anything). I'll use this for more than just entertainment, but I can also rip and convert DVDs or downloaded content and watch a movie in my tent if I wish, or Hulu in a motel room instead of the usual bad TV those places seem to have on offer.

Again -- The iPad is an amazing bit of kit, and I'd love to own one. However, for my budget and needed functions, the little netbook got me where I needed to go for less money, and the battery life I mentioned is what I am finding in my own independently-timing, not factory-quoted figures. Not as much as the factory promised, but still a full day of productivity and more than the iPad. My netbook battery will decline with age, but for now...not bad!

Andre is correct: a travel'puter lives a hard, hard life...especially on a bicycle. They are subject to a lot of vibration, temperature extremes, dust and humidity. But I decided I'd rather give a netbook a go at 1/3 the cost of an iPad and with greater functionality for my own needs. Time will tell as to its on-road suitability, but in the meantime, I've got a handy little 'puter that chugs along very nicely for day-to-day tasks when I don't need one of my zippier models for the heavy-lifting of video editing and numbers-crunching/modeling.

All the best,

Dan. (...who thinks there's myriad ways to get there, but finally settled on this one for cheap*)

*...and I can use it with two mice! https://www.google.com/intl/en/chrome/multitask.html  ;) :D ;D

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