Author Topic: Airless Bicycle Tyre  (Read 15515 times)

NZPeterG

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Airless Bicycle Tyre
« on: December 23, 2012, 10:49:17 PM »
Hi all,
Would this be good from cycle touring  ???

http://youtu.be/v9SWIsY8rzQ

It is looking good to Me, we may have to wait for them to be made  :(

Pete.........
 :o
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rualexander

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Re: Airless Bicycle Tyre
« Reply #1 on: December 23, 2012, 11:11:24 PM »
Airless? Looked full of air to me!
Another attempt to re-invent the wheel. The pneumatic tyre has survived 125 years for a reason.

jags

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Re: Airless Bicycle Tyre
« Reply #2 on: December 24, 2012, 12:37:54 AM »
one weird looking wheel tire .never know it could happen lets wait and see. ;)

ZeroBike

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Re: Airless Bicycle Tyre
« Reply #3 on: December 25, 2012, 12:07:19 PM »
Id want to see a few real world reviews first.

Obviously if these performed just like a normal touring tyre but without the punctures then Id definitely have them.


Andre Jute

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Re: Airless Bicycle Tyre
« Reply #4 on: December 25, 2012, 06:51:59 PM »
The designers and developers of that tyre either don't have too much faith in it or haven't put their minds in gear yet.

A tyre is a suspension medium. If their tyre is so good, why do they need to demonstrated it on a bike that is already fully suspended by hydraulics front and rear? Duh.

More. The tyre has holes through it, clearly essential to its operation. But they demonstrate it on a mountain bike, on tracks clearly washed by a good deal of water at other seasons, and therefore muddy. What happens when those holes clog up with mud or worse, with clay? The thing will ride like it's on bands of iron. When the clay dries... Duh.

It strikes me as a bodge on top of all the other bodges made by ergonomically ignorant or mindless bike designers, a compromise to fix other compromises, and bringing more unpleasantnesses with it.

They developers may send me a set of their tyres in the fattest 622mm rim format they have protos in and I'll test them on a bike known to be extremely comfortable without any suspension beyond its 622x60 Big Apple Liteskins. I'll give them a fair test over a 100km of my bad lanes. If they can match the Big Apples for comfort, then there will be an advance (unconditionally puncture proof!) in the sort of bike (commuters, tarmac luxury tourers) where the through-holes would not be a disadvantage, where the customers don't care what the best solution to even a marginal advantage costs, where they have the confidence not to care what the fashion victims who infest cycling think, and where almost everyone by definition is a tech freak and/or technically savvy. (Yeah, right, in addition to their other problems, they're looking at the wrong market.)

If there is no comfort advantage on an otherwise unsuspended bike (we'll overlook the Brooks saddle!) it is a gimmick, ipso facto not worth any money, never mind the premium new technology always demands to cover development costs.

BTW, I'm 20K or more away from my last puncture, ever since I changed to Schwalbe banded tyres, first Marathon Plus (and the Bontrager workalike), then Big Apples Liteskins. This new tyre is therefore a solution in search of a problem that Schwalbe, a brand with street cred, has already beaten conclusively. The developers should put their minds in gear and first define the problem because right now they are in fantasy-land.

Andre Jute
« Last Edit: December 26, 2012, 12:04:24 AM by Hobbes »

il padrone

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Re: Airless Bicycle Tyre
« Reply #5 on: December 25, 2012, 10:05:45 PM »
They designed that sort of tyre back in World War 1




There is a reason why such a tyre was not carried through in the market in peacetime  ::)

Airless tyres are one of a series of bicycle 'inventions' I call my 'five horsemen of the cycling apocalypse'

airless tyres
noseless saddles
elliptical chainrings
automatic gears
shaft drive

All first invented in the 1890s, all regularly re-discovered every ten years  or so as a 'new' invention. None of them have ever had real enduring commercial success and there's a reason for that. They are all either solving a problem that doesn't really exist, or they do it in a very inefficient manner.

I'll keep my $$$ thanks and stick with my virtually puncture-proof Vittoria Randonneur Cross tyres - over the past 7-8 years and over 40,000kms I have not had a single penetration puncture of these beauties. They're 2/3 the weight of the Marathon Plus as well  ;)
« Last Edit: December 25, 2012, 10:25:07 PM by il padrone »

Danneaux

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Re: Airless Bicycle Tyre
« Reply #6 on: December 25, 2012, 11:09:07 PM »
Quote
...over the past 7-8 years and over 40,000kms I have not had a single penetration puncture of these beauties.
"Till now". Shhh! Pete! Be quiet, else the Puncture Imps will hear you!  :o

All kidding aside, that's a wonderful track record for the Vittoria Randonneurs; duly noted. I presume you're using them in 1.75 width on the Nomad?
Quote
They're 2/3 the weight of the Marathon Plus as well
And a *lot* less expensive than Schwalbe Duremes.

Do they run nice and true, without center-wobble in the tread cap?

Best,

Dan. (...who's always glad when people air their views on avoiding flats)

il padrone

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Re: Airless Bicycle Tyre
« Reply #7 on: December 25, 2012, 11:47:56 PM »
All kidding aside, that's a wonderful track record for the Vittoria Randonneurs; duly noted. I presume you're using them in 1.75 width on the Nomad?
Yes the Randonneur Cross are so reliable that when someone calls "glass" I just maintain my line. I still carry a puncture repair kit but the glue has probably all dried out. The only strange thing about Vittoria's range is they only do the 26" tyres in 1.75" width. Their 700C tyres come in a range of widths. But I have recently bought some Randonneur Pro folding tyres for our European tour next year - they are 1.5" which is all we should need on the good roads of Italy and France.

And a *lot* less expensive than Schwalbe Duremes.

Do they run nice and true, without center-wobble in the tread cap?
Sure do. They are a very fine tyre, well-seated on the rim and no wobbles.

Andre Jute

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Re: Airless Bicycle Tyre
« Reply #8 on: December 26, 2012, 12:56:10 AM »
Airless tyres are one of a series of bicycle 'inventions' I call my 'five horsemen of the cycling apocalypse'

airless tyres
noseless saddles
elliptical chainrings
automatic gears
shaft drive


I've had three of those.

The Cheeko 90 bicycle seat is superior to any saddle — except a Brooks. I now ride on a Brooks. The Cheeko has most of a comfort of the Brooks at a fraction of the cost thought; if only its marketing was savvier and its distribution more widespread it could be common on our streets.

The elliptical chainring never did anything for me except wear unevenly. If ti made gearchanging easier even when new, I failed to notice.

I have a bike with full-auto 8 speed hub gears. http://coolmainpress.com/BICYCLINGsmover.html  It's in the loft. I ride a manual 14 speed Rohloff-hubbed bike. Shimano's Cyber Nexus full auto, including electronically controlled adaptive suspension, is a first class engineering solution to a problem already long solved, fear by potential cyclists of derailleur gears; it was solved by the plain-jane hub gearbox. It is more efficient than the plain-jane hub gearbox in that on my known daily loop it improved my time by around ten per cent. That's not negligible. (The current Dura-Ace version of the Cyber Nexus is a laughable cut-down version of what I have, hugely pointless, a status symbol rather than funcitonal engineering.) The full-auto bicycle, in my opinion, is a dead duck, among other reasons because the pedelec is a stepless full-auto gearbox and motor in one hub, a cost and weight saving. Shimano has had a full auto three speed in its OEM list since forever, Gazelle and Trek and others gave full-auto gears a good go (the lady who ran Koga-Miyata enthusiastically announced Cyber Nexus as the way all bikes would be in a few years), and none of it set the world alight. There's no market that demands it.

I also looked into shaft drive. In theory it could be made into a superior solution, at a marginal cost in efficiency, to the chain-and-Chainglider paradigm prevalent today. In practice what is available is Chinese toys with plastic gears. It isn't that the solution necessarily stinks, it is that no one serious has built a modern implementation.

NZPeterG

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Re: Airless Bicycle Tyre
« Reply #9 on: December 26, 2012, 01:45:51 AM »
Hi All,
Look I did not say it was a 1st!
I can across it and it looks good to me, can I buy a pair? No but we can make thing's better! than back in 1920's.
Look at poorly made motorcycle's! like HD (Harley Davidson) are still made and sold! why? because it is made in?? (China  :P some parts are! I know as I was the poor guy who had to work on them!)
When you can buy a Great Motorcycle made in Japan!

Back to the Airless bike tyre's!
I was thinking about Cycle Touring in Africa with the Big Thorn's!
I'm Sorry if I upset anyone about the Airless Tyre's (Not about HD's)
 :P
About:
         Noseless Saddles - - - - No Good
         Elliptical Chainrings - - - Good! but not for geared hub bicycle's and only if fitted in the right timing with the crank's (not like back in 1990's)
         Automatic Gears - - - - Good for going to the shop's on flat roads (No Good)
         Shaft Drive - - - - - - - Good for City Bicycle's (clean pants)
         Belt Drive - - - - - - - - No Good so far (HD have them too! Ha Ha)  :o

Pete.....
 ;)
The trouble with common sense is it is no longer common[

http://kiwipetesadventures.tumblr.com/

http://kiwipetescyclingsafari.blogspot.co.nz/

Looked after by Chris @ http://www.puresports.co.nz/
For all your Rohloff and Thorn Bicycle's in NZ

Danneaux

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Re: Airless Bicycle Tyre
« Reply #10 on: December 26, 2012, 02:11:11 AM »
Hi Pete!

Speaking for myself, I always enjoy seeing these things come around again. It almost feels like a visit from old friends.

And...once in awhile, they do seem to gain traction and morph into something that works...better.

I remember Shimano's Positron, a really pitiful early effort at indexed shifting. It didn't "really" work.

Then, Shimano got it right and look where we are now. Keying off Andre's comment, I think it take a serious effort by a firm that has the money and resources to invest, then bring to full development while sustaining years of losses.

Best,

Dan. (..who still remembers BioPace chainrings and how they seemed to work better out-of-phase and killed his knees otherwise)

NZPeterG

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Re: Airless Bicycle Tyre
« Reply #11 on: December 26, 2012, 02:32:09 AM »
Hi Dan,
(..who still remembers BioPace chainrings and how they seemed to work better out-of-phase and killed his knees otherwise)
I still have a good set of the 1st of them (mounted on the some wood, to show them off) and Yes once out of timing/out of phase they worked good.
A few year's ago Honda made a NR750 http://www.google.co.nz/imgres?q=honda+nr750&hl=en&sa=X&tbo=d&biw=1920&bih=934&tbm=isch&tbnid=xHy8cWZqAncdEM:&imgrefurl=http://objetpart.blogspot.com/2010/02/part-of-day-honda-nr750-oval-piston.html&docid=2ZHtzUM3O1lNMM&imgurl=http://img159.imageshack.us/img159/7123/800pxovalpistonyi6.jpg&w=800&h=595&ei=WV_aUI29HYeikwXPi4GoAw&zoom=1&iact=hc&vpx=606&vpy=124&dur=2248&hovh=194&hovw=260&tx=101&ty=120&sig=116707092913217527006&page=1&tbnh=138&tbnw=191&start=0&ndsp=45&ved=1t:429,r:3,s:0,i:96 which had 8 valve's per cylinder! and oval pistons  :o

A 1st for a Motorcycle engine  ??? NO Some racing Motorcycle's from back in 1910's did Oval Piston's!

So yes Things come around again like the Old Gearhub's have come back with more gear (not 3 but 14!)

It's all fun  ;)
Pete.....
 :)

The trouble with common sense is it is no longer common[

http://kiwipetesadventures.tumblr.com/

http://kiwipetescyclingsafari.blogspot.co.nz/

Looked after by Chris @ http://www.puresports.co.nz/
For all your Rohloff and Thorn Bicycle's in NZ

il padrone

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Re: Airless Bicycle Tyre
« Reply #12 on: December 26, 2012, 02:36:51 AM »
How about this one for you wintry northern hemisphere riders ?

http://www.toxel.com/tech/2012/12/08/bicycle-tire-spikes/


Danneaux

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Re: Airless Bicycle Tyre
« Reply #13 on: December 26, 2012, 03:42:08 AM »
Quote
...Things come around again...
No truer words spoken!
Quote
How about this one for you wintry northern hemisphere riders ?
I like this one! I can imagine things would get sketchy in a hurry if you incurred a puncture or the ties came loose, but otherwise, it looks really useful; I'd buy one (pair). The extra rotating weight wouldn't matter much in the conditions where it would be used (snow, ice, low speed). Easy on/off, stowable, uses the stock tires beneath...yeah!

I *want* to believe...which is probably enough for the maker to set the hook.

Best,

Dan. (...who this time may be one of those born every minute  :D)
« Last Edit: December 26, 2012, 03:47:54 AM by Danneaux »

energyman

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Re: Airless Bicycle Tyre
« Reply #14 on: December 26, 2012, 11:17:56 AM »
Oh good - no one mentioned belt drive bikes - so far.   :)