Author Topic: Stands  (Read 43152 times)

fleur

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Re: Stands
« Reply #30 on: October 09, 2012, 07:03:37 AM »
All Hase Pino tandem are factory equipped with a double-legged kickstand, the frame has a special plate to mount it:


It is a twin bike stand from Humpert:

swc7916

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Re: Stands
« Reply #31 on: October 09, 2012, 03:58:45 PM »
Not sure why you would say that. A BB-mounted one-legged stand is what we use on our tandem. It woks very well. Being relatively closer to the rear wheel than when used on a single bike it gets much less instability from the lean and turn of the front wheel. The tandem stands much like a single with a rear-mounted stand.

I concur with Pete. Here in Eugene, OR -- former home of Burley Design Co-Op and current home of Co-Motion, if I see a tandem with a kickstand (rare), it generally has one leg. Tandems with double-legged kickstands are scarce as hen's teeth; I think I've only ever seen one here and a couple in Corvallis (both the latter were recumbent tandems).

Best,

Dan. (Tandems + kickstands = a rarity here'bouts, but single-leggers outnumber their double-legged brethren)

Geez, no matter what I post here I get shot down immediately…   :-\

Mine is the only one around here that I see with a kickstand, and it’s the two-legged kind.  R+E has posted photos on their website of other tandems they have built with the same kickstand.  I don’t recall ever seeing a tandem with a one-legged stand (maybe a Bike Friday or recumbent or something like that.)

The way mine is mounted it does not interfere with the crankarms and it holds the rear wheel off the ground.  This way I can do all sorts of maintenance that would normally require a workstand, although for changing chains and adjusting derailleurs I have to sit on the floor.  Adjusting brakes, re-taping bars, replacing saddles, etc.  is a breeze.  The bike will stay upright with either wheel off, making it easier to deal with flat repairs.  The bike doesn’t lean on the stand so when parking on soft ground I can usually just jam the kickstand legs into the ground and it will stand up. 

fleur

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Re: Stands
« Reply #32 on: October 09, 2012, 08:41:32 PM »
I completely agree with you, on the Pino (even if it is not a "normal" tandem), the rear wheel is also off the ground, we can do the same type of maintenance you mention very easily and we can park the tandem on soft gropund as well.

As said, the double-legged kickstand is a factory mounted equipment on a frame factory foreseen to mount such type of kickstand, it won't damage the bike.

Any frame manufacturer could easily do the same: just foresee the needed plate at the right place.

Danneaux

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Re: Stands
« Reply #33 on: October 10, 2012, 02:26:38 AM »
Quote
As said, the double-legged kickstand is a factory mounted equipment on a frame factory foreseen to mount such type of kickstand, it won't damage the bike.

Any frame manufacturer could easily do the same: just foresee the needed plate at the right place.

Oh, yes, Fleur and Steve; if only all bicycles were all made this way! It would be bliss! Sadly, not very many frames provide for such a kickstand or mount, so we must do our best with alternatives that are not as convenient, versatile, or good.

Best,

Dan.

Andre Jute

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Re: Stands
« Reply #34 on: October 10, 2012, 03:38:15 AM »
I'm not at all certain that adding a central kickstand plate is as easy as has been claimed in this thread. The modern tendency is to build even touring steel bikes with very thinwalled tubes, and the butts have been getting shorter and shorter. It may well be that the many designers, whose instant reaction to mention of a central stand ranges between severe distaste to hands in the air horror, cannot order a  plate brazed or welded in there because the tubes are just too thin, and the butts too short -- exactly the same reason they don't like clamps on the tubes in that region. It's also the reason that oddly shaped bikes (like the recumbent a few posts earlier) have the best stands, right bang in the middle of the bike, because they are not made with "racing" tubes and thus have no attachment taboos.

The reason they want instead to braze or weld or bolt on a tab for a single leg stand at the frame end is that there the tube is solid, or can be made solid, or is intended to be and can be locally strengthened to support gears, brakes, luggage etc.

I'm not pretending it's not a bodge, I'm just saying that if they work with off-the-shelf tubes shaped by now-obsolete racing practice, warranty replacement frames for broken centre stand mounts will drive them bankrupt.

fleur

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Re: Stands
« Reply #35 on: October 10, 2012, 10:20:51 AM »
FYI, the half recumbent Hasebike Pino tandem with a  double-legged kickstand has an aluminum frame, not steel.

Also, the travel bikes loaded with huge travel bags I see in the previous page is probably not made with "racing" tubes.

il padrone

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Re: Stands
« Reply #36 on: October 10, 2012, 01:52:21 PM »
Geez, no matter what I post here I get shot down immediately…   :-\


Umm, if you re-read my post you'll see that I'm not trying to flame your choice at all, just saying that I use the single-leg stand with my tandem and find it works quite OK. Not perfect, but it is an option.

YMMV, as you say.

Andre Jute

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Re: Stands
« Reply #37 on: October 11, 2012, 01:01:22 AM »
Also, the travel bikes loaded with huge travel bags I see in the previous page is probably not made with "racing" tubes.

You're taking this too literally, Fleur. There are no real racing bikes made from steel any more, but the influence of the UCI lingers in an attitude that abhors weight, and promotes thinwall tubes and short butts that are hostile to touring and utility bike design. I'm talking about an attitude that does not say, "Let's start with a blank sheet and ask what is best for a touring or utility or town bike?" but instead asks, "How can we make the available tubes do for a purpose for which they were never designed?"

If steel bikes were not built from pseudo-racing tubes, every touring bike would long since have had a central stand, in the same way Dutch aluminium bikes naturally have a central stand, because either there would be long butts on the majority of chain stays to support a stand mounting plate, or long ears on the bottom bracket shell for the same purpose.

Andre Jute

il padrone

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Re: Stands
« Reply #38 on: October 11, 2012, 09:01:09 AM »
I think Fleur may have been referring to the photo of my Thorn Nomad. In no way could it be described as a 'lightweight frame' or 'racing tubing'  :D

revelo

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Re: Stands
« Reply #39 on: November 04, 2012, 02:57:28 AM »
I’ve seen a tandem that was propped up with a Click Stick fall on the pavement as the owner was walking away. ...

Happens to single bikes as well. Those ClikStands are a menace. Had one myself with the fat foot option and the bike blew over several times due to wind, so I eventually junked it. I've read all sorts of reports of the ClikStand collapsing under a full touring load, with or without fat foot, with or without a jar lid or tennis ball or whatever. It's a bad idea. As are stands in general.

I kind of disagree on the "debate" and "preference" issue.  The only debate is whether a kickstand is worth the trouble.  As far as preference is concerned,  I believe that most people in most instances would rather park their bikes upright rather than lay them on the ground.  Cyclists without kickstands almost without fail will look for something – a wall, fence, tree, whatever – to lean it against rather than lay in on the ground.

The only time I look for something to lean against is when I'm in civilization, because a bike lying on the ground attracts unwanted attention. Away from civilization, lying the bike down is PREFERABLE to me because it plus my rack bag makes a very nice back rest. For example:


Lying the bike down guarantees no damage from being blown over by the wind and also makes it inconspicuous. The only time I look for something to keep my bike upright when I'm away from civilization is when it might rain at night and I want to keep the saddle dry (using the Brooks saddle cover).

What if you could attach an anti-gravity device to your bike that would hold your bike vertically anywhere and under any load without any risk of damaging your bike?   Would you not install one?

If it weighed nothing, sure. But not if it weighed any significant amount. I am not going to pedal or push even a single ounce uphill if there isn't a good reason for it, and the reasons for wanting to hold the bike vertical just aren't that good. If I want to do repairs, like truing the wheel, adjusting the eccentric, shortening the chain, etc, I'd rather have the bike upside down resting on the saddle and handlebars than held vertical in the upright position.

Lying the bike down is like sitting cross-legged on the ground, squatting over a hole in the ground to relieve yourself, sleeping outdoors. At first it feels very unnatural, but soon enough you get used to it. In other words, your discomfort with lying the bike down is due to social conditioning, not any good technical reason. Yes, it is possible to damage the bike if you drop it to the ground. So you lay it down gently. Yes, you can squash stuff in the panniers. So you take care to put squashable things on one side of the bike (tent, clothes, instant rice and other foods repacked into sturdy bags, water bladders) and delicate things in the other side, and then also take care to lay the bike down on the squashable side only.

Reinstalling the ex-box is EASIER if the bike is lying down on the right side (the sprocket side). In any case, the only time reinstalling the ex-box should be necessary is if you remove the rear wheel. After much experimentation in the field, I came to the conclusion that doing things the old-fashioned way is simplest. That is, when you need to remove the rear wheel, turn the bicycle upside down and rest on the saddle and handlebars, after being careful to remove the bike computer and gps. With the bike upside down when removing the rear wheel, ex-box removal becomes a non-issue as far as stands and lying the bike down is concerned.
« Last Edit: November 04, 2012, 05:39:07 AM by revelo »

Matt2matt2002

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Re: Stands
« Reply #40 on: November 04, 2012, 01:53:38 PM »
I am liking this idea more and more.
Out of interest, when the bike is on it's side on the ground what kind of weight / pressure is put onto what parts of the bike?
I guess a pannier soaks up a fair part of the weight but if none then doesn't one of the pedals take the weight? That's what concerns me at the moment but await comments so my eyes can be opened on this point.
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revelo

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Re: Stands
« Reply #41 on: November 04, 2012, 06:28:51 PM »
I am liking this idea more and more.
Out of interest, when the bike is on it's side on the ground what kind of weight / pressure is put onto what parts of the bike?
I guess a pannier soaks up a fair part of the weight but if none then doesn't one of the pedals take the weight? That's what concerns me at the moment but await comments so my eyes can be opened on this point.


The pedal take the weight with or without panniers. I had the same concern about the bottom bracket, crank and pedals being damaged from lying the bike on the ground, soI asked Thorn sales about this and they assured me it wouldn't damage any of these. Which makes sense, as the bottom bracket has some pretty hefty bearings and the aluminum crank is certainly hefty and the pedal has a steel spindle. Aluminum isn't damaged by static pressure so much as by shock. For example, handlebars can crack when the bike falls over and slams into the ground or even from long-term vibrations from riding on rough roads.

il padrone

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Re: Stands
« Reply #42 on: November 05, 2012, 12:18:53 PM »
If it weighed nothing, sure. But not if it weighed any significant amount. I am not going to pedal or push even a single ounce uphill if there isn't a good reason for it

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Pletscher ESGE Multi Zoom Rear Adjustable Kickstand



..........Weight: 11.9 oz. (340 g)

I find the weight insignificant, and the reasons very beneficial.