Author Topic: looking for link to best light  (Read 32202 times)

Andre Jute

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Re: looking for link to best light
« Reply #15 on: December 02, 2012, 11:17:09 PM »
Nice to see the Rolls-Royce bracket SJS makes for the lucky few... Thanks, Stuntpilot. I've saved the reference because it looks like such a versatile, solid design that I'll probably need sooner rather than later.

I'll give you one in return. A problem with heavy lamps is vibration. The answer is a solid nylon bracket. Another problem with the fat tyres, from about 47mm up, that many now fit, quite severe with my 60mm Big Apples, which are huge, is that the front tyre interferes with the lamp's throw, and casts a shadow just where you don't want it. The anwer is to make the post taller. This nylon bracket from BUMM solves both problems:

http://www.sjscycles.co.uk/busch-and-muller-light-bracket-in-plastic-long-prod22450/

Interesting to see that someone else also runs a tyre wall dynamo. I still have one on my Gazelle Toulouse, an Axa HR, where the designer specified it presumably to save weight on the "stadssportief", a town and country bike, what the Dutch call a holiday bike, what you and I might call a commuter with sporting pretensions. The thing is about 23kg in dayride trim, and price wasn't the question, but he saved perhaps 100gr or something by speccing a rim generator rather than one in the hub! It works a treat though.

Julk, I take up making your own charging port in another thread.

Andre Jute

jags

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Re: looking for link to best light
« Reply #16 on: December 03, 2012, 03:57:53 PM »

Danneaux

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Re: looking for link to best light
« Reply #17 on: December 03, 2012, 04:57:34 PM »
Quote
...did you guys discuss this light...
Eh yep! This is the new, super-duper model about to be introduced by B&M, the Luxos, jags. It looks fantastic on paper, but is very expensive (as much as a charger and light together 'cos it combines both). Pete (Il Padrone) is with me and Andre on this one...wait for the test results before developing a fully-blown case of the gottahavits. It seems the second and third generations usually solve any problems for less money or just a bit more. Remember the iPod. I do believe we're about to see ever-better integration of lights and charging in one unit, a la Rualexander's AXA Nano Plus. There's a nifty bit of design integration.

You've found what is probably the best price on the Luxos I've seen, but there's two models, a super-duper and one that is merely "super". Also, this is a pre-production price. Peter White is currently accepting "reservations" for his first lot of 20 or so...but says he will email those interested as to any price increase at time of arrival.

jags, we'll be seeing a lot of new lights early in the coming new year, so no doubt it will be a hot topic on the Forum for the next while. Stay tuned!

All the best,

Dan. (...who thinks the future looks very bright indeed)

ZeroBike

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Re: looking for link to best light
« Reply #18 on: December 04, 2012, 01:05:39 PM »
Eh yep! This is the new, super-duper model about to be introduced by B&M, the Luxos, jags. It looks fantastic on paper, but is very expensive (as much as a charger and light together 'cos it combines both). Pete (Il Padrone) is with me and Andre on this one...wait for the test results before developing a fully-blown case of the gottahavits. It seems the second and third generations usually solve any problems for less money or just a bit more.

I definitively agree that there is some exciting stuff on its way, but I think people are going to have to wait 18 months or so before second and third generation stuff comes out, right now I would go with something like a edelux and separate plug 2 because they are tried and tested products.  Realistically its going to be next summer before the new B&M luxos has any kind of track record (looks like a good product but we need to see how it holds up to real world usage).

So anyone who is planning on holding off for a month or so for the new luxos, my advice would be if you cant wait any longer, go out and buy something now with a proven track record, but if you could hold off until say this time next year then the choice should be a lot better.

Andre Jute

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Re: looking for link to best light
« Reply #19 on: December 04, 2012, 08:50:48 PM »
So anyone who is planning on holding off for a month or so for the new luxos, my advice would be if you cant wait any longer, go out and buy something now with a proven track record, but if you could hold off until say this time next year then the choice should be a lot better.

Thing is, Zero, that Dan and Il Padrone and I all have decent lamps already, so we're not actually hurting for a lamp just to get going. We're not riding in the dark. But if someone is buying his first dynowheel now it is an awful quandary: the good lamps are not cheap disposable items, so does he buy now or does he wait for the possibly better lamps? That is why I offered Jags my old BUMM halogen lamp, which may not be ideal but will at least give him the choice being able to ride with his dynohub wheel while he decides whether to buy what's available, or to wait for the supposedly superduper lamps coming.

The whole thing is complicated by the BUMMSON glee club's entirely unfounded but apparently ineradicable subtext that BUMM makes the best lamps. It doesn't. The first series Cyo was the first BUMM dynamo lamp that was better than merely adequate, and briefly it was the best dyno lamp in the world. But, quite contrary to Dan's casual statement that the second series Luxos will be better, the evidence is that BUMM screwed the pooch conclusively through several loudly touted "improvements" to the Cyo and its workalike sister, the IQ Fly, until now these lamps are visibly inferior to the first series.  But here we go again, everyone in a tizzy about the new BUMM lamp, months before it arrives. I've learned my lesson; I'm not giving BUMM my money until I see independent shots of the light throw.

I would also say this. The BUMMSON glee club sang hallelujahs when the D'Lumotec halogen BUMM appeared. It was a rubbish lamp, marginally good enough to be seen, not good enough to see by. So it was better than the rubbish that went before; so what? Better than the rubbish before doesn't equal good enough. Good enough is a fixed standard.

Now the first series Cyo was in fact good enough. It was -- is, because it's lifespan is 50k hours, so it will be around a long time on the second-hand market! -- a lamp better than the 6V lamps they used to have on cars within living memory, on VW Beetles until very late. It's an important landmark, a breakpoint in bicycle lamps. It's buttery smooth, it has plenty of light, it cuts off flat and doesn't irritate drivers, and it has only two faults (not sufficiently water resistant to use on mudguardless bikes, not enough sidethrow for narrow and rough roads).

And then BUMM messed with success...

Any BUMM lamp that follows can only be better than the first series Cyo by throwing more light. With the addional light comes the problem of controlling it, so that it doesn't act as a beacon aiming motorists directly at you, a pathfinder for the accident you're about to become. The only way the Luxos can improve on the first Cyo in a practical way is to be a) perfectly waterproof and b) use some of the extra lumens to light up the road to the sides. The current information is that BUMM with their railroad vision haven't done either of those things. They have just thrown the more light further up the road.

Frankly, I'm of the opinion that anyone who now holds off buying a necessary lamp to wait for the Luxos is a fashion victim.

If you take care not to be caught in the trap of the subsequent Cyo/Fly series with first the daylight running extra LEDs, and the hotspot (aaargh!), there are really good lamps available at a third of what even the base model BUMM Luxos will cost.

Let me list them.

• First series Cyo 40 Lux with Reflector, still available in shops, and likely to be available secondhand for years

• First series Cyo 60 Lux, inferior to the 40 Lux unless you ride only on good roads, and no better for them than the 40 Lux, but the sporting set likes big numbers

• Philips Saferide, made by people who always have their minds in gear, in many ways a superior lamp to the Cyo (waterproof, designed with due regard for what you ride beside), but most places more expensive because it isn't so generally discounted. See http://www.philips.co.uk/c/bicycle%20bulbs/283657/cat/ -- many more models available via German Ebay. I might go for this one next if the hotspot on my IQ Fly-E becomes too irritating. I should have chosen it first... except I believed the misleading BUMM publicity photographs.

• Axa Nano -- you can get a description of the models on this board, where it has experienced fans. Available with USB charger built in, right NOW, which to my mind removes the slightest reason to wait for the Luxos.

Andre "The Enlightened" Jute

trebor58

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Re: looking for link to best light
« Reply #20 on: December 20, 2012, 09:47:21 AM »
I have a Schmidt son hub running a fly on 1 bike and a cyo n on another I find light output  is pretty similar
The fly has a slightly wider beam to the cyo which is a bit tighter.
 lux and lumen ratings are all about distance and hotspots and camera shots are often misleading.
I recently took a 10 watt halogen smart  battery light  out  with the iq fly outshone the halogen 10 watt!
The halogen had a bit of wasted light up in the air and to the sides.
The cyo seems to be a little better for higher speeds.
Also recommend the topline plus it is a great taillight!

Here is a useful link I have used

http://www.myra-simon.com/bike/tips.html


Andre Jute

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Re: looking for link to best light
« Reply #21 on: December 20, 2012, 04:54:51 PM »
The fly has a slightly wider beam to the cyo which is a bit tighter.
 lux and lumen ratings are all about distance and hotspots and camera shots are often misleading.
I recently took a 10 watt halogen smart  battery light  out  with the iq fly outshone the halogen 10 watt!

Here is a useful link I have used

http://www.myra-simon.com/bike/tips.html

Welcome, Trebor.

Yes, that's what I found, that the Fly has a bit more sidespill and beam width than the Cyo, which cuts my speed in my lanes because it is too narrow to show the ditch or even the badly broken rim-breaker edge of the road. As for camera shots being misleading, well of course they are, but they generally are misleading on the side of flattering incompetent lamps, not in showing less light than a lamp throws. Nobody thinks the Cyo/Fly throws too little light. What we're querying is whether the light is thrown in the right place. With reference to the hotspot, you won't see it in the first series Cyo: it is a particular complaint about the later series, which has a different reflector.

Andre Jute

jags

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Re: looking for link to best light
« Reply #22 on: July 24, 2013, 11:38:00 AM »
well i'm still hankering after the bush and muller new light but cant afford it just yet.
i have courtesy of hobbs the BnM Lumotec sensor plus headlight, pretty good but no where as bright as the battery power Cateye  HL-EL 540 excellent light and tail light is bnm top light excellent light.
btw i found the best place to buy is bikediscount great prices on gear and lights.

No

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Re: looking for link to best light
« Reply #23 on: August 01, 2013, 02:56:30 AM »
Does anyone have beam shots of these lights and the Edelux? How does that Edelux really do?

Danneaux

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Re: looking for link to best light
« Reply #24 on: August 01, 2013, 02:59:46 AM »
Hi No!

The best collection of beam shots can be found on Peter White's site, here: http://www.peterwhitecycles.com/headlights.asp

The Edelux is a very fine light indeed, but there are others that now do well also. The Edelux is essentially a variant on the B&M IQ Cyo series, but made with premium materials: Anodized alu housing (in black, red, or even silver to match SON and Rohloff hubs) and glass lens instead of plastic for both housing and lens on the Cyo. The Edelux also uses a more robust coaxial supply wire and a magnetic reed switch. The beam pattern of the Edelux is closer to the very nice one on the original B&M IQ Fly and Cyo, before B&M wrecked them by adding a fifth facet that puts a hot-spot of light in the otherwise evenly smooth, white beam. The Edelux does not offer the option of a near-field beam that lights to within a meter or so of the front wheel, as the Cyo does.

Best,

Dan.
« Last Edit: August 01, 2013, 03:09:06 AM by Danneaux »

JimK

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Re: looking for link to best light
« Reply #25 on: August 01, 2013, 03:14:32 AM »
I have the Edelux on my Nomad. I can't compare it to anything else really... none of my other bikes have lights that are at all comparable... but the Edelux does indeed work very well. I live out in the country where there are no lights at all and I can right on a pitch black moonless night and see the road very nicely. I actually feel safer riding at night than in the day! Of course my night-time riding equipment is not limited to the Edelux headlight - I have a tail light and spoke reflectors and pedal reflectors and lots of reflective tape on my bike. But if e.g. a car pulls up at an intersection ahead of me, their headlights are aiming across the road and it's pretty much my Edelux alone that announces my presence. Cars will wait for me to pass rather than pulling out right in front of me. I am more visible at night than during the day.

Andre Jute

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Re: looking for link to best light
« Reply #26 on: August 01, 2013, 05:38:43 AM »
I am more visible at night than during the day.

At night with the Edelux, they mistake you for a motorcycle. If they knew you were a bicycle, they pull onto the road in stead of waiting.

Andre Jute

No

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Re: looking for link to best light
« Reply #27 on: August 01, 2013, 07:19:23 AM »
Hi No!

The best collection of beam shots can be found on Peter White's site, here: http://www.peterwhitecycles.com/headlights.asp

The Edelux is a very fine light indeed, but there are others that now do well also. The Edelux is essentially a variant on the B&M IQ Cyo series, but made with premium materials: Anodized alu housing (in black, red, or even silver to match SON and Rohloff hubs) and glass lens instead of plastic for both housing and lens on the Cyo. The Edelux also uses a more robust coaxial supply wire and a magnetic reed switch. The beam pattern of the Edelux is closer to the very nice one on the original B&M IQ Fly and Cyo, before B&M wrecked them by adding a fifth facet that puts a hot-spot of light in the otherwise evenly smooth, white beam. The Edelux does not offer the option of a near-field beam that lights to within a meter or so of the front wheel, as the Cyo does.

Best,

Dan.

Man, I just saw this Luxos B or U or whatever the fancier version is, thing.

Man, that beam was WIDE.

I bet the Edelux is going to have some running for it's money over that one.

VERY WIDE!

Like, so wide you can see the skunks and snakes and crap that are going to cause you problems. I mean, WIDE! WIDE!


And bright too.


On that note, what is the brightest hub powered tail light?

[Minor language edit by Dan to address a concern that was raised]
« Last Edit: August 01, 2013, 09:09:46 AM by Danneaux »

Danneaux

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Re: looking for link to best light
« Reply #28 on: August 01, 2013, 07:46:01 AM »
Hi No!

If I were going for the *brightest* dyno-powered taillight, I'd probably custom etch a board to drive a Dinotte 400R taillight for results like this: http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=dinotte+400r&oq=dinotte+400r&gs_l=youtube.3..0.91545.94086.0.94224.12.9.0.3.3.0.220.1173.4j3j2.9.0...0.0...1ac.1.11.youtube.445-yFfpK-o
...or this: http://www.dinottelighting.com/Photography.htm# (see two photos at lower-right of the page when it opens)

...But I wouldn't want the *brightest* dyno-powered taillight. Why?
• A single point of light makes it harder for closing car drivers to accurately judge distance to the light.
• A too-bright light can blind or distract following drivers and is horrible to follow in a paceline or on a nighttime randonneur.
• A too-bright taillight can serve as a magnet for drunk drivers.

A better approach seems to be a reasonably bright dyno-powered taillight that has a larger surface area, something big enough for drivers to accurately gauge distance. B&M have something like that in their Toplight Line Plus, and Philips has their LumiRing taillight based on the same principle of a couple LEDs' output being dispersed through a fresnel lens to create a wider, larger output than could be provided by the LEDs and their prefocused lenses alone.

I have gone this route myself and am very happy with the outcome when augmented by a 1-watt LED blinky for use in heavy traffic or in areas with limited sightlines or for daylight-visible use. I set the battery-powered LED blinky to the "blink" setting and use it with the solid Toplight Line Plus for what seems the best of both worlds for daytime and nighttime use. My LED blinkys of choice are either the 1-watt Blackburn Mars 4.0 or the PDW (Portland Design Works) Radbot 1000, also rated at 1-watt. Battery life with both is good if you power them with Sanyo/Panasonic Eneloop batteries. A photo of my two lights (Toplight Line Plus powered by the dynohub and the PDW Radbot 1000 powered by batteries) in daylight is here: http://www.thorncycles.co.uk/forums/index.php?topic=3896.msg17272#msg17272 Direct view here: http://www.thorncycles.co.uk/forums/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=3896.0;attach=1066;image The result in daytime is as bright as car brake-lights -- considerably brighter at night -- and it is hard to imagine a need for more in most circumstances.

A fuller discussion of the Toplight Line Plus is available here: http://www.thorncycles.co.uk/forums/index.php?topic=4055.msg18290#msg18290

A quick search of the lighting board will turn up more references to taillights, including a link to Andre Jute's excellent photo-essay on the topic.

Best,

Dan.
« Last Edit: August 01, 2013, 07:48:08 PM by Danneaux »

No

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Re: looking for link to best light
« Reply #29 on: August 02, 2013, 12:27:59 AM »
Have you ever seen one of those toplights compared to a 400r? I have a 400r so that's my point of reference.