Saddles Thread?

[il padrone]

The best place to be seated on a leather saddle is always well towards the rear, just ahead of the rivets, where the saddle is a good deal wider to support your sit-bones. Further forward the saddle narrows a lot and you'll place nasty pressure on your perineum

It's hard to tell exactly where I am sitting, but after shifting around a bit, I came to the conclusion that I am sitting on the flange. The flange is wider right where my sit bones go, so this isn't uncomfortable. I do notice that when I hit a big bump, I slide forwards and hit against the leather part of the saddle, so that I bounce a bit. But then I immediately push myself back onto the flange.

You need to tilt your saddle's nose up a bit, so that you don't slide or bounce forwards at all, but stay in the best seating position. The correct tilt in my experience with a bike with the bars level with, or a little below, the saddle is about 5-10 degrees max. You can see it here on my bike:




My commuter has a more upright seating position and the saddle is tilted up even further - looks nasty to many people inexperienced with a Brooks, but it's perfectly comfortable for me. I have dropped the tilt a bit but I just found I slid forwards and had to cotinually push myself back. Once many years ago on a long tour I found I was getting sore shoulders. Remedy - tilt the saddle nose up   No more sore shoulders.

[revelo]

The best place to be seated on a leather saddle is always well towards the rear, just ahead of the rivets, where the saddle is a good deal wider to support your sit-bones. Further forward the saddle narrows a lot and you'll place nasty pressure on your perineum

You need to tilt your saddle's nose up a bit, so that you don't slide or bounce forwards at all, but stay in the best seating position. The correct tilt in my experience with a bike with the bars level with, or a little below, the saddle is about 5-10 degrees max. You can see it here on my bike:

Maybe that works for you, but I felt pressure on the perineum when I tilted the saddle like you are suggesting. Also, I'd still move forwards during a bump (that's what a bump does, it stops the vehicle but not the passenger, which is why we have seatbelts in cars) and having the saddle pointing up would just cause me it hit it in an uncomfortable position (right in my soft parts rather than on my sit bones). I frequently stall in sand and when that happens I am thrown violently forwards, all the way off the saddle, which is why I would never wear clip-ins and especially not toe-clips or powergrips and which is why I am happy to have plenty of standover clearance. I'm not sliding forwards during normal cycling, so there is no arm pressure. Most importantly, I really don't want to be like that guy I linked to above, who's messed himself up so bad with the saddle arranged like you suggest that he is thinking of getting one of his testicles removed. So I'm staying with my current system of sitting on the flange. I apparently have a rock hard bottom, so it doesn't bother me sitting that way.

As for anyone concerned about this issue, who doesn't have a rock hard bottom, I believe that is something that can be developed over time. Just like building up the toughness to walk barefoot on sharp rocks, which I was once able to do but no more.

[revelo]

From http://www.petergostelow.com/thebigafricacycle/general-posts/talking-gear/:

Do I blame my Brooks B17 leather saddle for causing my testicular torsion? At first I felt it was the cycling and friction between me and saddle that was to blame, but in hindsight I almost certainly now know that it was a cold shower totally un-related to the cycling that caused it

Click the URL below to see a photo of his saddle:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/petergostelow/6885272994/in/photostream/

Holy aching testicles! Methinks he's dreaming if he doesn't think riding a saddle like that isn't going to cause health problems eventually.

I am definitely NOT going to be moving off that flange.

[wildrover]

Did you all notice the Selle Anatomica saddles are on sale?

http://www.selleanatomica.com

Wish they were wider, but LOVE that red!

[il padrone]

Click the URL below to see a photo of his saddle:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/petergostelow/6885272994/in/photostream/

Holy aching testicles! Methinks he's dreaming if he doesn't think riding a saddle like that isn't going to cause health problems eventually.

Looks all pretty normal for a well-broken in saddle really. It could probably do with a bit of tensioning, but not too much as this can lead to damage to the leather. My old Conquest looked a bit like that and it was exceptionally comfortable - riding it was like sitting in a favourite armchair. Never gave me any discomfort or testicular troubles.

[JWestland]

Ow those anatomical saddles ARE nice

I can testify that a slot/deep groove is the way to go...and I don't even have man bits to worry about!

[Swislon]

I tried a Selle Anatomica with cut out. It didn't work for me at all, as it nipped my bits ! 
Not a nice feeling at all.
Sold it and went back to the Brooks.

I am trying a Giles Berthoud Aspin at the moment and that has alot of potential. It starts off hard and ungiving and after an hour or so seems to
warm up and becomes very comfortable. I think going to be a good un.

Steve

[Andre Jute]

Ow those anatomical saddles ARE nice

I can testify that a slot/deep groove is the way to go...and I don't even have man bits to worry about!

Mmm. I have a Terry saddle with a cutout. It came on a bike on which I overlooked deleting it from the default "base" spec. I rode on it for an hour, which admittedly is longer than I suffer most saddles; my average before I decide to chuck a new saddle is less than ten paces. The record is less than ten feet for an abomination of a "racing" saddle Trek fitted  to an expensive bike aimed, complete with automatic gearchanging and electronic suspension control, at comfortable middle class commuters. I kid you not.

It's odd that so many designers get the saddle wrong when the rest of the bike is at least okay.

Andre Jute

[JWestland]

Hm, so I do like a slot and you don't.
It seems saddles are almost like garlic, some people like it...

The default cheaper bikes generally come with nice fat gel saddles, can't go much wrong with that.

My specialized avatar generation MK3 is lighter than the MK2 one...but...it's slightly less comfy. It's still comfy don't get me wrong, but there's less padding/a higher groove in it. Darn racing weight weenies.

It's padding level3, and reasonably hard, I dread to think what padding level1 is 

[Andre Jute]

I didn't say I didn't like the slot, Jawine. I've only tried the one from Terry, and didn't like it well enough to keep. But, since I rode it an hour before going back to a proven saddle, it least it wasn't instantly objectionable, like far too many saddles. Like you, I did like the harder gel saddles, such as the Selle Royale that came on my Gazelle. Like yours, incidentally, it couldn't exactly be described as "soft" but it was comfortable after several hours, which is what matters.

My experience with the Terry did make me wonder whether the guys who cut keyhole slots in Brooks saddles aren't on to something. I'm terrifically busy, so someone else will have to find the piccies on the net. Sorry.

Andre Jute

[il padrone]

The default cheaper bikes generally come with nice fat gel saddles, can't go much wrong with that.

Yes you can actually. Big soft gel saddles that your butt sinks into. Your seating is pretty much fixed, not easy to shift about a little bit. Your butt gets sore from being in the one position all the time. The gel also retains heat and you get a hot, sweaty butt.

Why I like leather - you're able to be more mobile on the saddle and they tend to be cooler.

[il padrone]

My experience with the Terry did make me wonder whether the guys who cut keyhole slots in Brooks saddles aren't on to something. I'm terrifically busy, so someone else will have to find the piccies on the net. Sorry.

http://www.bicycles.net.au/forums/viewtopic.php?f=34&t=57960

[Andre Jute]

Super thread that. Thanks! -- AJ

[revelo]

I'm resurrecting this thread since what I said above about sitting on the flange is wrong. It's hard to figure out where I am exactly, but I appear to have my sit bones just slight in front of the flange, so that I can feel the flange pushing on me but the sit bones are not on the flange itself. There is very little deformation of the saddle after 8000 km. Unless you look carefully, and notice some slightly crinkling of the leather and a very slight indent on the left side, you'd think the saddle was brand new. The saddle definitely doesn't look stretched like in that photo I linked to above. I continue to think a stretched saddle like that will cause severe health problems sooner or later. And I continue to think that if a brand-new Brooks saddle is not comfortable from day, it's the rider who needs to be broken in and not the saddle. If the saddle is not collapsed and you sit in the right position, there should be no pressure on the perineum except when you are thrown forward when hitting a bump.

As for leather treatments, these are protect the leather, not to soften it. Proofhide and beeswax are good. Neatsfoot oil and other leather softeners are bad.

[JWestland]

I noticed I'm sitting a bit forward on my Avatar type Specialised saddle...if I got backwards where I think I'm supposed to sit it can nip me.

The XTC is a tad long for me, which can be reason. But I'm comfy the way it is even though I probably should be sitting a little backwards to exactly put sitbones on cushion.

Saddles...a mystery!