Saddles Thread?

[jags]

ah don't worry about being off topic stick a photo of that bike up good man 

[Danneaux]

Hi John!

[Urrrrrrrrrgh! Pulling things more firmly back on-topic, thanks to your Obenauf's post... ]

You're absolutely correct; Obenauf's enjoys a fine reputation here'bouts for protecting leather and leather saddles and is also endorsed and sold by Rivendell for that very use. For those interested in giving it a try, here's the link to Obenauf's for the paste: https://www.obenaufs.com/index.php?route=product/product&path=20&product_id=30

Also popular with some is Sno-Seal ( http://www.atsko.com/products/waterproofing/sno-seal.html ). I prefer this for my Danner Gore-Tex lined boots, since it doesn't soak through like oil to contaminate the Gore-Tex (avoids causing leaks through altered surface tension at the liner) yet feeds the leather and protects it from rain/wet and snow. I usually do 1-2 boot treatments a year and it hasn't stretched my Mountain Light IIs ( http://www.danner.com/boots/mountain-lighttm-ii-mens-womens-hiking-boots.html ) in all the time I've used them. It holds up remarkably well against ice scuffs on crusty snow, and nicely restores the appearance afterwards. I prefer to warm the boots to room temperature, apply generously, and then apply heat from a hair dryer at arm's length as I massage the Sno-Seal into the leather with my fingers. I heat the Sno-Seal just enough to keep it shiny; if the gloss flattens out, it is too hot and needs either less heat or more Sno-Seal. the idea is to warm it and the leather just enough for the Sno-Seal to penetrate but never so much heat as to damage the leather. When the leather appears to have soaked up its fill, I let the Sno-Seal cool and become gelid before polishing off the excess. Friends who have used this method to Sno-Seal their Brooks saddles have been happy.

When I Proofide my Brooks saddles, it is always at room temperature and I place them near a sunny window After to accomplish the same purpose to help it penetrate the surface.

I've known several people to use mink oil, all with bad results. I'm not sure what caused the problem, but the leather seemed unusually dry afterward. It had the same effect on my father's favorite hiking boots, so we have forsworn it; there's probably others who have had great success.

'Never heard a single bad word said about Obenauf's results on Brooks saddles.

I've always thought there is something wonderful in the success people have had with different leather treatments on Brooks saddles. Obviously, no one solution is right for all, and everyone has their favorite. If you ever ride with another Brooks user and run out of conversation, bringing up this topic is fodder for another hour or so of talk.

All the best,

Dan. (...who thinks it either doesn't matter or matters entirely on believing it -- whatever "it" is -- works.

[il padrone]

HD ? I thought you meant it was high definition saddle oil - good for keepin' ya buns tight

[Andre Jute]

Brooks made plenty of saddles for motorbikes. My late brother Johnny had the original Brooks saddle on a Brough Superior, back when it was just a secondhand bike that only people with machining skills and access to a lathe could even consider buying, before it became an icon of a lost culture.

Andre Jute

[Matt2matt2002]

Titanium rails???
What are they all about?
Will I go faster?
Will I save 0.0009 gm?

Honest question since I am still considering a used Brooks from eBay.
( against repeated sound advice to the contrary from my mentors here )
 

[Danneaux]

Titanium rails???
What are they all about?

Well, Matt...

Brooks has had some incidence of breakage with titanium rails in the past , just as they have with chrome-plated ones. The black powdercoated/enameled ones seem to not suffer the same rates of breakage by avoiding the hydrogen embrittlement that can occur as a byproduct of the plating process.

Will I go faster?

Titanium is lighter than steel -- about 110g/3.88oz when it is used in saddle rails and cantle plates -- not in a place where it will do a lot of good insofar as making you much faster.

According to Brooks' website, the B.17 Titanium weighs 410g and costs €225.00.  The B.17 Standard weighs 520g and costs €90.00.

That means you are spending €135 (@ new, direct-from-factory retail prices) to save 110g (not quite a quarter-pound). That's a lot of money; the same amount of money would purchase a spare set of lighter tires and tubes to go with them for a difference that could be felt immediately.

On the other hand, Ti has a certain caché and won't rust or corrode or chip and flake off. The Ti model B.17 also gets hand-hammered, larger-diameter copper rivets and looks real purty in a differ'nt sorta way than the usual Brooksian offerings (thought the B.17 Special can also make a claim for the same rivets at a reduced price compared to the Ti model; I've rolled my own Specials out of Standards by sending for the copper rivets and hammering them in myself with fine results).

On some models, the Ti rails also net you (or used to) an allenhead tensioning bolt, so you don't have to fiddle with the little Brooks open-end wrench and can get to the task of adjusting the tension more directly, which could be a Bad Thing if it leads to too-frequent tensioning or outright over-tensioning and resultant stretch. A Good Thing in terms of convenience when it is needed. A few old hands (me among them) feel Brooks deliberately made tensioning a bit of a hassle to discourage users from engaging in the practice frivolously.

Some users also feel the Titanium rails provide a springier, more resilient ride than do the steel ones. This seems likely, given the properties of titanium.

I think it is very much a matter of choice, and when it comes to pretty bike baubles...well, no one is immune to their siren call.

All the best,

Dan. (...who has wrecked a few shiploads of dollars on unseen reefs while responding to the siren calls of pretty bike baubles)

[il padrone]

Titanium rails???
What are they all about?
Will I go faster?
Will I save 0.0009 gm?

Yes lighter weight (by more like a couple of hundred grams), and more beneficially, greater spring in the saddle rails.

[JWestland]

Bike baubles hehe 

I've seen bike flowers been sold on chain reaction...urgh! Rather baubles on the saddle rail then.

And still it looks like the saddle on my fixie though getting rave reviews isn't quite my thing. Shall do big test next week, the stiffer frame on the fixie of course means you get more direct knocks but yet...

Don't think I'll ever be ready for padding level 1 on the road 
(a specialised avatar is 3...)

[martinf]

Titanium rails???
What are they all about?
Will I go faster?
Will I save 0.0009 gm?

Saving weight. I have a Brooks B17 Ti on my Brompton, which I want as light as possible for when I have to carry it. Ti rails are also supposed to be springier, but I haven't noticed much difference.

I got the steel version for my Raven Tour, IMO not worth bothering trying to save weight on a heavy tourer.

[John Saxby]

Jags, thanks for your interest; and others, in advance for your tolerance.  Foto of my airhead below on a sunny afternoon high above the Shenandoah Valley in Virginia, en route to the Carolinas, Sept 2011.  Barely linked to this thread, but beneath the sheepskin on the saddle, there's some Obenaufs on the saddle too.

Andre, wow! -- Brooks on a Brough!  Not just alliterative; quality in association.

J,

[John Saxby]

And really on saddles this time (got a bit sidetracked by the airhead foto, it being serious winter here 'n' all...):  The cost of titanium seems to make the B17 Ti a bit pricey.  I have a nice brown & copper "B17 Premium" which I bought for about $150 + tax at my LBS a year ago, so that's about midway between the two prices of a Standard and the Ti.  Bought it 'cos I like dark brown & copper (all this stuff is pretty subjective, no?) and best of all, it's been wonderfully comfy, no troubles at all.

Seems we have a few options for preservative, too, beyond Proofide.  Dan's positive experience with Sno-Seal fits with others' experience in these parts, though I haven't used it myself.

I did have a chance to try out the Brooks' rain cover on my Rhine/Danube safari this past fall -- a couple of times, it rained overnight when I hadn't pitched my tarp, and the cover kept the saddle nice & dry. My bike was shielded by trees from the worst of the rain.  At other times, I used the rain cover at night even under the tarp--the air was very moist, and I preferred not to expose the leather.  Again, the Brooks' cover did the necessary.

J.

[jags]

Jags, thanks for your interest; and others, in advance for your tolerance.  Foto of my airhead below on a sunny afternoon high above the Shenandoah Valley in Virginia, en route to the Carolinas, Sept 2011.  Barely linked to this thread, but beneath the sheepskin on the saddle, there's some Obenaufs on the saddle too.

Andre, wow! -- Brooks on a Brough!  Not just alliterative; quality in association.

J,

thanks john beautiful bike.

[Danneaux]

...thanks for your interest; and others, in advance for your tolerance

<cough> A most beautiful bike, and it has two wheels. Squint hard, and it looks just like a Thorn when I have my glasses off.   My father's old Indian and Cleveland moto-cycles (as they were properly called and trademarked at the time) have been referenced in the Forum as well: http://www.thorncycles.co.uk/forums/index.php?topic=4523.msg23897#msg23897

NuuuuuuuuuuudgeBackontopic: I love my honey-brown, hand copper-riveted B.17 Champion Special as well, even though I know the chrome-plated rails will likely someday part company as they did on the earlier chromies I've owned. Given my stellar success in re-riveting the leather top-caps, I'll just swap in a new rear flange-and-rail set when the inevitable occurs and transfer the leather bit and nosepiece. Meanwhile, it sure looks pretty.

I've also had good luck with a saddle cover, though it took me a goodwhile to select something close, modify it, then figure out my preferred means for storing it wet or dry, but always at the ready and loss-proof: http://www.thorncycles.co.uk/forums/index.php?topic=3812.msg16445#msg16445

All the best,

Dan. (...who thinks its all good!)

[Andre Jute]

What a beautiful bike, John, what a beautiful backdrop. I don't think too much tolerance is required. A few months ago I spent an hour on a site I stumbled across while searching for a white Norton F1 originally sold in Germany that my protege Dakota Franklin [offboard advertising!] wanted to put in one of her books. The site was about early motorbikes in the TT. They were so spindly, they looked like pedal bikes with little motors added. It became quite clear to me that there is a common root between bicycles and motorbikes, not all that far into the past either. In the same line of thinking, it doesn't surprise me to find Brooks as a maker of saddles for both motorbikes and bicycles. There was a time, probably until after WW2 when the proper posture on the dominant types of both would have been very similar (what we now see as an upright Dutch posture on the bike).

Andre Jute

[JWestland]

The manfriend has quite a few books and magazines of bikes from the past...and indeed it looks like at some point somebody went "hey, we can fit an engine on that!".

The rest is history as they say

In saddles new, Selle Italia Ladies Gelflow gets good reviews for ladies on LFGSS.

London Fixed Gear. Great forum for bike building enthusiasts. Bit younger crowd and expect some slagging.

Apparently according to there tourers all have pre-independance war troopers beards, knee length socks and SPD sandals.
I wouldn't know...too young for a beard