Pannier hook abrasion...and preventing same

[FrogPrince]

How about this ??
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/1-Metre-x-10mm-BLACK-Silicon-Silicone-Vacuum-Tube-Rubber-hose-/170696840317

[StuntPilot]

A quick report.

After my recently completed North Sea Cycle Route tour (103 days/at least 6200km) the tubing has stood up well during the trip. There is no sign of tube wear at all. I replaced one zip-tie as the tubing had become a bit loose at that point. The handle on one Ortlieb clip came loose and I lost the screw (which will be repaired under Ortlieb's excellent warranty). Other than that I can conclude that the tubing used is up to the job.

There are a few points of wear on the front and rear Thorn racks but no rusting of the rack itself. I will be adding more tubing at those points.

In conclusion, I would say, at least for me and from my experience on this tour, I have found the solution to mounting the Ortlieb panniers without inserts and without rack damage.

Hope you find the same onebikeoneworld!

[onrbikes]

As onebikeworld has done, so have I.

Except I used black radiator hose from a car shop. Attached it the same way with small cable ties. Mainly on the top where the Ortlieb hangers are and I too removed the small useless plastic inserts.

Now I too will do the same with the area where the panniers rub on the sides.

[RonS]

Hello all. Time to jump in with my first post.
Do you think spiral hose wrap would work? It is a hard plastic tube spirally cut so that it can be wrapped around cables. It is reusable without the need for zip ties, and it would give 100% coverage.  I think it can be purchased at any auto supply store.
Regards
Ron
Who rides a 30 year old Cannondale (since new) and is hoping to have a New Raven next summer.

[Danneaux]

Do you think spiral hose wrap would work?

Hi Ron, and welcome to the Thorn Cycling Forum!

That surely is a intriguing idea, and well worth a try. I also thought about using split-loom (electrical) harness wrap to accomplish the same end. I have not done so yet, and my only concern with either is they a) are plastic and b) can rotate, perhaps grinding away on the rack finish with any grit that has migrated between. The rubber or vinyl hose stays pretty stable, especially when held in place with cable ties.

The main thing to keep in mind is the hook/adapter/rack diameter, which is roughly 8mm, 10mm, and 16mm. Wrapping with rubber or vinyl hose allows one to dispense with Ortlieb's sizing adapters and plunk the hooks directly onto the 16mm hose/tubing, whereas something smaller must be accommodated by the hooks with adapters in place. With the adapters, there's not a lot of leeway beyond the standard sizes.

Still, well worth a try. I may have a go myself here in the next couple weeks, schedule permitting.

Best,

Dan.

[VeloFreedom]

If you use Ortlieb panniers then I'm sure you're familiar with the problem of losing those little inserts that click into the hooks. They're great when they work, ensuring that the hooks fit snugly onto whatever size tubing your racks built with. But on a long tour I've found them to be unreliable and next to useless. So as I wait out the Peruvian rainy season I finally found the time to make a well over-due Ortlieb adaptation to my racks.

You can see how I did it here...
http://velofreedom.bike/2014/03/19/projects-for-a-rainy-days/

FYI: I ride a Thorn Expedition Steel Rear Pannier Rack & Old Man Mountain Pioneer Front Rack

[Title changed by Dan to reflect merged topic]

[Danneaux]

Hi VF!

My, what a nice job you did making your substitutes for the Ortlieb hook adapters and the nice summary with photos at your linked site -- Well done!

I have moved your post here, as it is such a nice follow-on to the discussions on how to best protect racks from pannier hook abrasion.

Yours is a clean, neat, and elegant solution nicely executed; thanks for sharing.

Best,

Dan.

[Danneaux]

Hi All!

Ortlieb seem to be well on their way toward solving this problem of pannier hook abrasion at its source, and are rolling out an improved mounting hardware across their line with a further development of their tool-free QL2 mounting system. I saw a set of Back-Rollers with the new QL2.1 system on a Dutch site this week, and it is now included on Ortlieb's new Office-series of panniers (the ones that don't use the QL3 system).

My dealer catalog arrived recently, and describes the new 2.1 system this way...

The new pannier mounting system QL2.1 is based on the proven Q2 system, however, several decisive features were considerably improved, especially with regards to racks currently on the market.

This optimized system has the following features that distinguish it from others:

• 16mm QL hooks with inserts which have an "Anti-Scratch" function for 8, 10 and 12mm (size 12mm is required for Racktime racks). In QL2.1, the reductions inserts are now attached from the sides and secured against loss.

• 20mm QL hooks are optionally available for racks with larger diameters (17-20mm ) as often used on e-bikes.

• The upper mounting rail consists of one piece for higher stability. With models Office-Bag and Downtown it can be adjusted to the left of right side of the bike rack.

• The new assembly system allows use of extremely flat nuts on the inner side thus featuring a level surface and avoiding damage to whatever you bring along.

• The lower hook rail is made of a two-component synthetic combination with "Anti-Scratch" function. this reduces abrasions on the carrier and prevents damage to the rack tubing. the lower hook is rotatable in 15° steps and is adjustable in height.

• Just as in the conventional QL2 system, all hooks are adjustable to the rack without requiring any tools and can be easily exchanged.

• Optional upgrade with anti-theft device into the upper rail.

I'm guessing they are using a TPU formulation (Thermoplastic Polyurethane, see: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thermoplastic_polyurethane ) molded over the usual glass-fiber-filled nylon to prevent scratches. It would be nice if the new mounting system could be fitted to older panniers, though it might be too late to prevent damage form existing mounting hardware. I'm particularly heartened to see a more robust means of retaining the sizing shims, as the present models have been known to wear in use to the point where they sometimes drop out and are lost when removing the bags.

There is further discussion of the system over at the German Rad-Forum here: http://www.rad-forum.de/topics/1007525

Ortlieb have just posted a video to YouTube, showing an animation of the system in action: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zCay7Aq5NJY

For those unfamiliar with Ortlieb's mounting systems, a good explanation of the QL1, QL2, and QL3 is here: http://www.cyclocamping.com/Bike_Parts__Accessories/article_difference_between_the_ortlieb_quicklock_systems_ql1_ql2_ql3/ARTI_ORTLIEB_QL_System-89.aspx The QL2.1 is a refinement of the QL2. A mounting matrix showing which Ortlieb bags fit which racks (with or without adapters) is here: http://www.ortlieb.com/was-passt-rack.php?lang=en

Best,

Dan.

[IronMac]

VF, nice pro job!

[AndyE]

This thread has made for some interesting reading. I am surprised at the amount of detail that some have gone to protect their racks, and at first glance it would seem bordering on OCD! Further reading and research proves on extended use, abrasion can and dose become an issue.
 
So I have had my "thunking" cap on this evening. My solution is to use Kydex a tough Thermoplastic used extensively for making sheaths for knives and holsters for side arms ext. It is a fairly cheap to buy and fairly easy to work with too. I have a 12"x12" 2mm thick sheet in my workshop for some time. I had intended to make a holster for my Hand held marine VHF radio but never got a round to it.

I have cut two strips, 55mm x 30 mm  and put them in a 300 degree (gas mark 2) oven on a old backing sheet for 10 min's.  You will need some gloves to handle it obviously and moulded them over the rack quickly, it sets up quite fast. The fit is excellent on too the Ortlieb QL2 hooks without the inserts. The cool thing about this is they snap on and off my rack so fitting them in other places on the rack is easy. You will need to get rack and or bike close to the oven so permission may be needed if wife is at home!





A little refinement is needed to stop them from rotating as this it's self may cause unnecessary where and tear.
  
Andy

[Danneaux]

Ortlieb's new QL-2.1 pannier hooks (intended for inclusion on their 2015 production and beyond) will render this thread obsolete.

The hooks and lower rail are coated with TPU to prevent rack abrasion, and the hook profiles have been modified to better retain the sizing adapters and so prevent their loss.

Best,

Dan.

[il padrone]

Good news of Ortlieb responding to a design issue.

[RonS]

There's a similar topic over on the Crazyguyonabike forum and someone mentioned a product called ISC Helicopter tape. It's a clear polyurethane tape available in 8 and 14 mil thicknesses. Claimed to be almost indestructible. Perhaps it just might do the trick, and it wouldn't change the tube diameter.


Manufacturer website:                      http://www.racerstape.com/rtp.html

Available from Amazon.com              http://www.amazon.com/ISC-Helicopter-OG-HD-Surface-Guard-Tape/dp/B000QC6H90

A 1" X 30' roll should last a lifetime, or share with the whole club!

[DAntrim]

I use the heli-tape to protect the paintwork on the frame of my bikes, and from experience certainly does the job.

[Thomas777]

Just came across this thread. I started looking for the TrimBrite products but have been striking out.
Thoughts??