Drop 'bars & Rohloff: A dozen differ'nt ways

[JimK]

yeah, I'd be loathe to give up handlebars that have proven comfortable on long tours!

Welcome... looking forward to your reports!

[Danneaux]

Hi John!

You're surely welcome for any help received and welcomed aboard as a new member; looking forward to hearing more from you!

I found myself in much the same dilemma as you, and started this topic for many of the same reasons. There's no one right way to use a Rohloff with drop handlebars, but hopefully this catalog of ideas will contain something of use for you and others who follow. I feel sure we have not exhausted all the possibilities, so there's a good chance something new will appear from time to time.

I've been very pleased keeping the OEM Rohloff shifter separate from the handlebars, and its usefulness and convenience exceeded expectations. I can roll it like I would if mounted on handlebars, or I can turn it from the end like a doorknob, using just my fingertips if I wish. I recently changed handlebars, and it was so nice to leave the shifting end of things intact. Putting the shifter above the 'bars on a T-bar meets my needs despite being ehm, "unconventional" in appearance and it gives a perfect mount for my GPS, inclinometer, and GoPro camera clamp while leaving the handlebars free and unencumbered. If you'd like to follow the development of my idea, it is detailed here in words and photos: http://www.thorncycles.co.uk/forums/index.php?topic=4523.0 The most recent photo before padding and taping the new compact-drop 'bars is here: http://www.thorncycles.co.uk/forums/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=4523.0;attach=3251

**Please note, I placed the shifter on a Thorn 105mm Accessory T-bar, and ended up using the 55mm Accessory T-bar to mount my Ortlieb handlabar bag as close as possible to the steerer. With my stem, this put the Rohloff shifter above and just ahead of the handlebar-tops. By happy coincidence, this left plenty of room for me to ride atop my drop handlebars and use interrupter/cross-top levers without my fingers hitting the back of the handlebar bag; there's plenty of clearance and then some. Depending on your bag and handlebar stem reach, you might well need to mount the Rohloff shifter on a shorter or longer T-bar for everything (including fingers!) to clear.

The 45°, 172.5mm Thorn Accessory T-bar is another possibility for mounting a Rohloff shifter.

Second choice for me would be a 50mm T-bar below the 'bars and above the headset, as Freddered has done.

There's lots of very good approaches out there, including the Gilles Berthoud and Co-Motion shifters, each having excellent build quality. Though well-executed, they do take up a bit of space on the far-inside of the 'bar, and are third-party solutions. I decided to go with OEM Rohloff as much as possible to ensure easy parts availability and replacement in future; Rohloff are very good to make all their advancements to date backwards-compatible and this was another reason why I went the T-bar route.

all else equal, will it fit with the mounts for my Arkel handlebar bag?

John, the T-bar is 22.2mm in diameter, so the Arkel handlebar bag moun(s) should work fine so long as it is installed with the shims included with the Arkel mounts ( http://www.adventurecycling.org/store/index.cfm/product/327/arkel-handlebar-mounts.cfm ).

Any questions, give a shout; we're all glad to help.

Best, and welcome,

Dan. (..."suits me to a T(bar)"  )

[John Saxby]

Thanks, Dan -- all that is really helpful, and thanks too for your kind words.  "The devil is the details"? ... nah, on the evidence of this forum, in the details are to be found delight, mystery, and just a wee bit of obsessiveness.

My attachment to my Velo Orange rando bars has to do with headwinds.  I've had a few times where I've spent maybe 2/3 of a day's ride on the drops -- simply can't imagine battling winds on the Gaspé, for example, with straight bars.  I guess if one's riding only eastwards, say, Vancouver to Thunder Bay, then straight bars are not a problem; but where I live in the windy Ottawa Valley, at some point, either leaving or returning home, you have to ride westwards, and when you do, you will likely meet a headwind. And, there aren't many densely-populated corridors in Canada, so your ride-into-the-headwind may easily last for a few hours, interrupted only by rest stops.

I think I'll have a chance to discuss & perhaps test some of these bar-and-shifter options in person. In March, I'll be in Somerset, so will stop in at SJS. In July/August, I hope to ride my airhead to the West Coast, so will stop in to see Co-Motion as well. At first glance, it appears that my rando bars (48 cm) would have enough space for the Co-Motion shifter, outboard of my Arkel mounts, though I'd have to add shims. (Those recurring details...) And Dan, do send me your co-ordinates--I didn't realize you were in Oregon!  Happy to buy you a meal, modest compensation for your excellent work on our behalf.

Cheers,  J.

[fleur]

Today I had the opportunity to compare three bicycle equipped with a Rohloff, a belt drive and a shifter on the handle bar.  Three different solutions:
- a Van Nicholas Yukon with the original Rohloff shifter mounted on a two piece handle bar.
- A Santos Race Lite with a Gilles Berthould shifter.
- A Idworx (didn't see the model name, it is a new model) with a Co-Motion shifter.

The outcome is the following:
- the worse is the Co-motion: the shifter diameter is really big and the shifter surface is made of beautiful anodized black aluminum that looks nice but is very slippery, no grip at all on it.  The combination of the big diameter+anodized surface makes it quite uncomfortable to use.
- then comes the Gilles Berthoud.  It fits on a standard handle bar but its diameter is smaller than the Co-motion and its surface provides a good grip, it works well and is pleasant to use.  I see nevertheless one drawback: the cables are exposed to dirt and water, not so good if you use your bicycle everyday also during the winter.
- The best one is actually the original Rohloff shifter, it provides the best grip, works even better than the Berthoud and the cables are protected.  Of course you need a special handle bar.

I had the opportunity to try another rare thing: a bicycle with the new Pinion gear box.  It was a short ride but the experience wasn't very good, shifting requires significantly more power than the Rohloff, the shifting wasn't smooth (but the bike was new) and I discovered something I didn't knew, it needs a chain tensioner (while with a Rohloff frame you can use an eccentric and get rid of the tensioner).  Otherwise, as expected, the gear range is really huge.

[Danneaux]

What a unique opportunity, Fleur, and very kind of you to relate it to us!

Your experience matches what I have found either by reading accounts online or by personal experience (Co-Motion shifter), but I was very intrigued to read your firsthand experience comparing all. One big concern I have with metal-bodied shifter alternatives is how they might feel to the hand in temperature extremes. Aluminum is a very efficient conductor of temperatures, and it seems metal shifters might well become very hot or cold depending on ambient temperatures or perhaps slippery in the wet. Perhaps some of these makers will develop rubberized over-sleeves in the future.

I've been following the Pinion development for some time, as well as another mid-mounted gearbox ( http://www.g-boxx.org/10-bikes_history.html ), and so hoped one of "us" would have a chance to try it for comparison to the Rohloff. Yes, that tensioner is tucked away where is isn't immediately noticeable and it took me awhile to tumble to its location in the photos I've seen. I think sliding dropouts might replace the tensioner, but as the Pinion is at present only available to a limited number of OEM providers, we'll have to wait and see what develops. Four more gears than the Rohloff is appealing, but the other characteristics don't sound as attractive. There are some nice "inside views" of the Pinion here: http://www.pinkbike.com/news/Pinion-gearbox-first-ride-2011.html

Wonderful ride report, Fleur; thanks!

Best,

Dan.

[pelago]

"I think sliding dropouts might replace the tensioner".  I donīt know the term "sliding dropouts" but I guess I have such in my bike with a Rohloff and it works well.

[Danneaux]

Hi Pelago!

When I wrote "sliding dropouts" I was thinking of the Rohloff OEM-type dropouts that are vertical and attach to the frame with a couple allenhead bolts. Long ramped dropouts might work as well...just some means other than an eccentric BB or a tensioner to take up the slack chain as it wears.

However, as I think back on published photos, I don't recall seeing any Pinions without a tensioner of some sort...not even on rigid frames ( http://pinion.eu/en/discover-pinion/bicycle-frame-manufacturers/ ). I can understand why no EBB, but no sliding dropouts...I wonder why that is?

Best,

Dan.

[il padrone]

"I think sliding dropouts might replace the tensioner".  I donīt know the term "sliding dropouts" but I guess I have such in my bike with a Rohloff and it works well.

Horizontal dropots ??

[Andybg]

I always used to refer to them as track ends and considering the amount of torque you can put through them without incident they are definetly up to the job. My only concerns would be either lack of periodic tightening on the rear wheel. I think Rohloff might have an issue with it as I think (if memory serves me right) the Rohloff does not like a high tightening torque on the rear axle?

Andy

[rualexander]

These are what are normally referred to as Rohloff sliding dropouts :
http://www.kinetics-online.co.uk/blog/?p=196
There are a few different designs but more or less similar.

[Andybg]

Yeah I can see how that gets round the problem. Quite a nice bit of engineering there.

Have been without a Rohloff bike in the garage for a week now and already considering another - lol

Andy

[fleur]

Look at this one, a very clean design !





Here is the link, it is the Pinion Titan Rennrad at the end of the page : http://www.hilite-bikes.ch/titan/gallery/

The drawback of such horizontal dropout is that if you have disc brakes, you need to adjust the brake position each time you modify the position of the wheel.

About the Co-Motion and also Gilles Berthoud, indeed, they will probably become very cold in the winter.  One more problem of the Co-Motion is that the turning part of the shifter is not only big in diameter but also narrow, so you need to grip a big, much bigger than the handle bar, narrow, slippery wheel.  If you look at the Pinion shifter above (which is similar to a Rohloff shifter), its diameter is very much the same as the one of the handle bar covered with the tape so you can easily slide your hand from the handle bar to the shifter something you can't do with the Co-Motion.

[Andre Jute]

I always used to refer to them as track ends and considering the amount of torque you can put through them without incident they are definetly up to the job. My only concerns would be either lack of periodic tightening on the rear wheel. I think Rohloff might have an issue with it as I think (if memory serves me right) the Rohloff does not like a high tightening torque on the rear axle?

Andy

Track ends, right. They'd shrug off the permissible Rohloff torque. The temptation would be overtorqueing them. -- Andre Jute

[Danneaux]

Hi Fleur!

All debate about drivetrains aside...My! That is one gorgeous bike in my eyes! It looks "right", fast, and all of-a-piece to me.

And...not a chain tensioner in sight; the first Pinion I've seen without one.

Best,

Dan.

[alcyst]

I have a Santos SRR05 (Racing Lite), originally with a Rohloff shifter on the end of the drop bar, then the Gilles Berthoud on a Ritchey bar (which left the shifter partly where I would have liked to rest my hand), now a GB shifter on the new Thorn drop bars.

Simple conclusion: The Thorn bars do the trick. Plenty of space on the top bar for a comfortable grip. Good solid handlebars.

If you do need a 25.4 stem Thorn stock a range and Syntace seem to make some. The reach (diameter?) of the Thorn bar seems deeper than the Ritcheys so the saddle to brake lever reach is longer, may be only only half a centimeter.
If you want to mount a Garmin on one of the out front style mounts you will need to fit into a tight space on the right (shifter mount) side or use one of the RaceWare Direct mounts. The RaceWare does have the advantage of coming in sizes smaller than O/S (31.6) so they minimise the quantity of shim needed.

This is the third pair of bars on this bike, I'll probably stick with these until an STI style shifter comes out.